U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > True Crime
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 01-09-2012, 01:36 PM
 
1,617 posts, read 2,470,246 times
Reputation: 1352

Advertisements

Good for you for helping!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 01-09-2012, 01:47 PM
 
Location: 39 20' 59"N / 75 30' 53"W
16,085 posts, read 23,966,260 times
Reputation: 17995
Quote:
Originally Posted by sugarmaple View Post
Good for you for helping!
I didn't even think about the repercussions for me at the shelter, but there weren't any. Thank goodness.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-09-2012, 02:29 PM
 
Location: 39 20' 59"N / 75 30' 53"W
16,085 posts, read 23,966,260 times
Reputation: 17995
Quote:
Originally Posted by jasper12 View Post
I don't like "blaming" victims. But in DV, I have to admit, that even though I understand Dependent Personality Disorders, or whatever makes a victim stay with an abuser, I still think that abusers start with small control issues, and just keep pushing, and escalating.

What I don't like about the women I have worked with in DV situations, is that they want to not accept any personal responsibility for the situation they are in, and they say they want all this help, then, a few days, or weeks later, they go back to the same situation. It is crazy, and I don't get it. These were women who were in a safe shelter. With tons of childcare, free counseling, all types of assistance, free legal aid to file for divorce, protective orders, it was a large, clean, nice place, bright, sunny, new, women were given their own room, large enough for them, and their kids, free meals. They did not have to pay. The only rule was they could not have the abuser on premises, or talk to the abuser after 6pm. And the women even broke those rules!!!! How difficult are those two rules?!
The locations of safe house are to be confidential. Woman are told this upfront, breaking those terms puts everyone residing there in danger.

Allowing an abuser access to the facility... never heard of this.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-09-2012, 03:18 PM
 
Location: 2 blocks from bay in L.I, NY
1,769 posts, read 1,447,216 times
Reputation: 2750
Default Violence ONLY for self-defense when no other options

Will someone who works with DV victims or have been a DV victim help me to understand something. It is this: why aren't these women taught how to use a weapon (gun) for self-defense? The recent story of the young 18-year old widow with a three-month old baby comes to mind. If you read the story, you'll notice that the second big bad man suddenly turned tail and ran after he saw the young mother used a shotgun (instead of tears and begging) to convince them that she was not the woman they wanted to commit evil against after all. No, the second man quickly reconsidered their original plan which no doubt was to rape/rob/kill this woman and her baby after she put a bullet in his friend. Hers was not against her partner but the concept is still the same.

Why DV victims live in fear of your life constantly and have to look over your shoulder with nothing more to protect yourself and your children than tears or a restraining order? You'd sleep better with a gun under your pillow than having a restraining order against him. The restraining order will do you absolutely no good because if your abusive husband or boyfriend finds you, he's already beat the police to the scene of a crime that he's about to commit. Self-defense is never brought up in a discussion of women being beat up or killed by a man. I don't understand why not?

P.S - as a woman if you feel that you love him too much to kill him then shoot in the leg or arm. Just shooting him will suddenly cure him of his addiction to beating you.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-09-2012, 03:30 PM
 
18,852 posts, read 31,808,658 times
Reputation: 26120
These types of situations are very dangerous. Domestic Violence calls can be more hazardous to police officers than bank robberies. I used to work at a shelter, and I was the night staff, and it would drive me crazy that women would tell the abusers the location of where they were, and the abusers would come to the facility, at night, expecting to be let in, so they could "talk" about things. NO WAY.

If they wanted to talk, that could be arranged, during the day, with a Social Worker, at the mental health offices. The problem I saw, was the women sort of wanted to work everything, around the social worker, who was trying to help them.

Domestic Violence is very scary. And I see it taking many different forms, that alot of people don't understand, like in the movie "Sleeping with the Enemy", much of that abuse, was psychological terror, which people who don't understand domestic violence would not understand the fear and control.

Last edited by jasper12; 01-09-2012 at 03:30 PM.. Reason: edit
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-09-2012, 03:34 PM
 
Location: 39 20' 59"N / 75 30' 53"W
16,085 posts, read 23,966,260 times
Reputation: 17995
Quote:
Originally Posted by Klassyhk View Post
Will someone who works with DV victims or have been a DV victim help me to understand something. It is this: why aren't these women taught how to use a weapon (gun) for self-defense? The recent story of the young 18-year old widow with a three-month old baby comes to mind. If you read the story, you'll notice that the second big bad man suddenly turned tail and ran after he saw the young mother used a shotgun (instead of tears and begging) to convince them that she was not the woman they wanted to commit evil against after all. No, the second man quickly reconsidered their original plan which no doubt was to rape/rob/kill this woman and her baby after she put a bullet in his friend. Hers was not against her partner but the concept is still the same.

Why DV victims live in fear of your life constantly and have to look over your shoulder with nothing more to protect yourself and your children than tears or a restraining order? You'd sleep better with a gun under your pillow than having a restraining order against him. The restraining order will do you absolutely no good because if your abusive husband or boyfriend finds you, he's already beat the police to the scene of a crime that he's about to commit. Self-defense is never brought up in a discussion of women being beat up or killed by a man. I don't understand why not?

P.S - as a woman if you feel that you love him too much to kill him then shoot in the leg or arm. Just shooting him will suddenly cure him of his addiction to beating you.
I disagree self protection isn't offered in DV shelters. Police do offer their services with a class on self protection. They apply not only protecting yourself from the abuser, but perpetrators of muggings, rape, so, general self protection measures.

Teaching gun use will never be allowed or advised as an option for self protection in a safe house. If you want to learn, it has to be explored on your own time.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-09-2012, 10:01 PM
 
9,917 posts, read 9,326,740 times
Reputation: 8058
Quote:
Originally Posted by sugarmaple View Post
CarolinaWoman - some do well; some finally begin to settle down, calm down and relatively relax in their surroundings; however, it can take, and frequently does take, a very very long time to stop looking over your shoulder even when intellectually you pretty much know you are finally safe and do not have to live in fear anymore. It truly takes a lot of reconditioning to learn to relax.
Quote:
Originally Posted by virgode View Post
Worked for me. Because these facilities are limited, they don't allow woman there to take up space. Curfews and monitoring are for protection of the participants. One woman had 5 children and disappeared for her drug habit. They didn't call DFS, but just put her and the kids out on the street. I thought it was an unprofessional way to handle the situation. I personally called another shelter to help make arrangements for the sake of the kids and drove them there myself. The shelter workers there knew that I had helped her and never said a word to me.

I have always wondered what happened with her situation.
I am glad to hear that because we were never aware of what happened. I do know we took in a lady from the Midwest with two daughters and it worked out great. Found her a job, a home, school for the children ... yes for a long time she did look over her shoulder and eventually he did find her. By that time the abuser was next near to dead from alcohol. But her daughters were old enough so no problem with him taking them. One daughter is a lesbian and I don't think she will ever trust a man after all the violence she witnessed as a child. The lady would volunteer and try to help the ladies telling them you can do this, I did it.

I am a sorry person I had to stop volunteering because the success rate was so low and seeing little children return with their mother just about killed me. I was just a volunteer and couldn't scream and shout you idiot don't do this to yourself and your children.

I am happy you both got out of an abusive situation and moved on with your life. Life is to short to live like that.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-10-2012, 07:20 AM
 
18,852 posts, read 31,808,658 times
Reputation: 26120
I am with you Carolina, I worked at a womens treatment facilty/shelter, and it just seemed so futile. It made me sad to see women who had such poor self esteem. Or were they addicted to the drama and adreniline rush? I don't know. Too messed for me.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-10-2012, 08:40 AM
 
1,422 posts, read 4,649,428 times
Reputation: 1923
Quote:
Originally Posted by jasper12 View Post
I am with you Carolina, I worked at a womens treatment facilty/shelter, and it just seemed so futile. It made me sad to see women who had such poor self esteem. Or were they addicted to the drama and adreniline rush? I don't know. Too messed for me.
^^That's the correlation. Add in financial dependance, and you've got a nightmare.

I don't think engaging guns is a way to protect oneself from a batterer. Guns have no place in a home where domestic violence is an issue. He'll end up using it on her. Because he lives to control her. F'ing cowards.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-10-2012, 10:07 AM
 
1,617 posts, read 2,470,246 times
Reputation: 1352
Didee, I concur, guns, and/or actually any weapon is not optimal in any home where there is, particularly, domestic violence. Even when I was gone and my former husband was somewhere [no one knew where he was which was definitely NOT a secure feeling], it was suggested to me, for my protection, to learn how to fire a weapon. That was too scary for me, not only because I could not really imagine me having to use it, possibly killing someone, but more significantly, having it turned on me and that was certainly a strong possibility.

One of the other components to domestic violence which is very often overlooked is assault on a pet. This happens more often than anyone wants to believe - an offender knows how much their pet means to them and pets are kidnapped, hurt, mutilated, found cut up in mailboxes. This is not only to emotionally hurt the owner of that pet, the partner, but to let that partner know, I can get you too and/or you are next and/or another venue of power, control and intimidation.

Maine was the first state to pass legislation re: orders of protection for animals; Vermont was second. I do not know if there are other states now following suit and I certainly hope so.

I am on the Board of Directors of one of the agencies that works with victim/survivors of domestic violence and sexual assault. There are some women who come to us who have literally, grabbed their kids and left with absolutely nothing, not even a toothbrush and a change of clothes. We literally have bags filled w/those necessary items ready at all times. We do not have a shelter per se although there are some in abutting counties; we have safe places where we can house them and other arrangements are made whenever needed.

In response to the comments regarding restraining orders, correct, they are simply a piece of paper, they are not magical bullet proof shields; however, in many cases the fact that there is one in place and the offender knows that law enforcement knows they are in place and neighbors and friends know there is one in place, there are those offenders who will not risk jail and/or getting caught violating them - not always, of course - the offender will much prefer convincing the victim/survivor to withdraw it, and they will go for counseling, or it will never happen again and/or...

I think it is great that we are having a healthy conversation about this significant topic - yet, I also think it is important to remember that unless one has walked in someone's shoes, experienced the nuances and intricacies of domestic violence, it is important and necessary NOT to make judgments nor assumptions as to why a victim does not or cannot leave.

I will be the first to admit that I did that many many years ago - specifically with the Lisa Steinberg / Hedda Nussbaum case - my first real introduction to domestic violence. I was shocked, totally shocked at not only did this woman "allow" [smile] herself to get into this situation, to get to hooked on drugs and so 'seemingly' passive about what was going on around her and to her AND worse, allowing these horrors to be done to her children.

I learned a valuable lesson about judgments and assumptions.

A few years ago I opted to return to the Lisa Steinberg case by reading everything I could about it and where Hedda Nussbaum is now in her life. Staggering is the only word I can use - the hell and torture she went through AND that child went through by this man was horrendous - and even though a very bright and capable woman - she was totally destroyed, emotionally, physically and psychologically by this man. Years and years and years of counseling let alone medical attention.

Interesting as well, as is often common with victim/survivors, when they do come through the muck and mire and begin to live a safe, healthy and 'normal' life, they too become advocates on behalf of domestic violence situations.

There is no easy answer or fix-it to this egregious crime and judgments and assumptions should not be mixed into the equation either. If a victim wants to and/or can get help or finally feels safe enough to tell someone, the last thing in the world they need is a friend or colleague or relative judging them. They need to be supported in that decision.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > True Crime
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top