U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > True Crime
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 01-23-2012, 09:19 PM
 
9,912 posts, read 9,307,633 times
Reputation: 8053

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by sugarmaple View Post
If one used that slightly invasive birth control measure [I think I brought it up in one of my threads?], some small rod-like instrument that is inserted into an arm and it is a birth control measure that works up until 3 - 4 years - at which point either a new one is inserted and/or, perhaps, that woman is in a better frame of mind, maybe some parenting classes, counseling, whatever, so she would no longer be a threat to herself, let alone to children.

One can reverse a tubal; however, it is a big procedure, especially as opposed to having the tubal. There are several articles re: tubal reversal:

Reverse Tubal Ligation - Sterilization Reversal

A friend of ours had two children and then a tubal ... her marriage ended in divorce. Eight years later she married again ... he had never been married and wanted a child. She went through the procedure and had the tubal reversed. It took over a year after the procedure but it worked ... they have a beautiful little girl.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 01-22-2013, 08:21 PM
 
9,912 posts, read 9,307,633 times
Reputation: 8053
Last August, Jackie Burkle, 22, pleaded guilty to two counts of second-degree murder, a class B felony, after striking a deal with the Story County Attorney for reduced charges.

She was sentenced to two 50-year prison terms to be served concurrently. Burkle will be required to serve 70 percent of her sentence, or 35 years, before she is eligible for parole.

The sick part ... Burkle admitted that she’d committed certain acts to kill both of the newborns and that she had intended to kill them.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-23-2013, 01:51 PM
 
7,112 posts, read 9,352,884 times
Reputation: 8162
Quote:
Originally Posted by stan4 View Post
Frankly, I am not sure why people have to take courses to get licenses to drive, etc, but being a parent is just willy nilly your 'right'...either way, you have a BIG responsibility and can affect many other lives.

It's just loaded...this whole not fit to be a parent thing. No one wants to touch it.
Child Protective Services touches it constantly, and they are hated for it. People don't want to hear that they may not be considered fit for parenthood. They're fine if they hear you or I have been deemed unfit, but it's a whole different story if you're talking about THEM. At that point it suddenly becomes a non-negotiable, sacred right.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-29-2013, 03:42 PM
 
Location: Earth Wanderer, longing for the stars.
12,408 posts, read 16,485,955 times
Reputation: 8778
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cliffie View Post
Child Protective Services touches it constantly, and they are hated for it. People don't want to hear that they may not be considered fit for parenthood. They're fine if they hear you or I have been deemed unfit, but it's a whole different story if you're talking about THEM. At that point it suddenly becomes a non-negotiable, sacred right.
That's not the full situation, though. People who ask doctors to sterilize them at an early age are usually denied that service. I think society has a skewered picture of parenthood. It should not be thought of as the natural occurrence in a marriage. There is nothing 'sacred' about having a child if it ends up wrongly parented and being a detriment to society.

What we really need are reversible sterilization procedures.

I have no idea of how many women who have killed their children would have preferred to have been sterilized at an early age if asked at that time. People don't often know what life has in store for them then.

If there were a reversible operation I will bet that a lot of parents would get that done to their kids during puberty. Not that it protects against disease, but at least kids would not be born hated and resented. When a mom does not want the kid she carries you cannot tell me that the kid cannot feel that.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-30-2013, 03:03 PM
 
7,112 posts, read 9,352,884 times
Reputation: 8162
Quote:
Originally Posted by sugarmaple View Post
If one used that slightly invasive birth control measure [I think I brought it up in one of my threads?], some small rod-like instrument that is inserted into an arm and it is a birth control measure that works up until 3 - 4 years - at which point either a new one is inserted and/or, perhaps, that woman is in a better frame of mind, maybe some parenting classes, counseling, whatever, so she would no longer be a threat to herself, let alone to children.
That's Norplant you're referring to; I just got through reading that you can no longer get it in this country. The Depo-Provera shot is the next best thing; I believe you get it quarterly.

But look at Andrea Yates; she knew what a horrible state childbirth put her in and she got worse every time, but didn't stop having kids until she was imprisoned for murdering all 5. Even with Norplant you can just pull it out and go back to having unprotected sex.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-01-2013, 05:57 AM
 
Location: Earth Wanderer, longing for the stars.
12,408 posts, read 16,485,955 times
Reputation: 8778
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cliffie View Post
That's Norplant you're referring to; I just got through reading that you can no longer get it in this country. The Depo-Provera shot is the next best thing; I believe you get it quarterly.

But look at Andrea Yates; she knew what a horrible state childbirth put her in and she got worse every time, but didn't stop having kids until she was imprisoned for murdering all 5. Even with Norplant you can just pull it out and go back to having unprotected sex.
Andrea Yates was a victim of religion. Her religion told her children were a blessing and that the woman follows the husband's decision in marriage. Her doctor put her on drugs and told both her and her husband that they should have no more children. Her husband talked her into losing the drugs and he told the doctor that they would have as many children as God gave them.

On her own, she was following the doctor's instructions. The problem was the stupidity and hubris of the husband and the horrible religion that instructed the wife to follow the husband's dictates.

Many people in this country are brainwashed by the dogma and cultish aspects of their religions. We just ignore these occurrences because allowing yourself to be duped into a cult is your freedom of choice. This is just one instance in which the problem is glaring because people died.

I don't point my finger at Andrea because in my youth I was sent to a fundie church. I can understand that a mind with limited perspective on life who is surrounded primarily by cult members can be roped in to making very bad decisions for herself.

If Andrea had been taught to stand up for what she thought was right OR if she had not married a jerk, this might very well have not happened.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-03-2013, 11:55 AM
 
Location: So Ca
15,793 posts, read 15,027,744 times
Reputation: 13707
This is just amazing, over 50 years later. A mother now confesses to killer her baby daughter in 1957: Wisconsin police crack 1957 case of 7-month-old infant's murder - latimes.com
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-07-2013, 05:34 PM
 
7,112 posts, read 9,352,884 times
Reputation: 8162
Quote:
Originally Posted by CA4Now View Post
This is just amazing, over 50 years later. A mother now confesses to killer her baby daughter in 1957: Wisconsin police crack 1957 case of 7-month-old infant's murder - latimes.com
About time.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-07-2013, 05:40 PM
 
7,112 posts, read 9,352,884 times
Reputation: 8162
Quote:
Originally Posted by goldengrain View Post
What we really need are reversible sterilization procedures.

I have no idea of how many women who have killed their children would have preferred to have been sterilized at an early age if asked at that time. People don't often know what life has in store for them then.

If there were a reversible operation I will bet that a lot of parents would get that done to their kids during puberty. Not that it protects against disease, but at least kids would not be born hated and resented. When a mom does not want the kid she carries you cannot tell me that the kid cannot feel that.
What we really need is a society that makes sure children are raised caring for other children, as they were through all of human history until just the past couple of generations. Most teenagers never get near a baby or toddler and have no idea what to do with one until they have one handed to them by the OB-GYN. They learn to parent out of baby manuals, if they learn at all. "Baby Think It Over" is a start, but you can't take the battery out of a live baby when it won't stop crying. You NEVER know how you really feel about having a baby until you find out you're pregnant, and you have NO clue what a huge responsibility it is to raise one until you have one right there in your arms, screaming like a banshee, 24/7. The best birth control out there is having your illusions shattered about childrearing.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-09-2013, 03:10 PM
 
Location: Coastal New Jersey
56,117 posts, read 54,613,656 times
Reputation: 66508
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cliffie View Post
What we really need is a society that makes sure children are raised caring for other children, as they were through all of human history until just the past couple of generations. Most teenagers never get near a baby or toddler and have no idea what to do with one until they have one handed to them by the OB-GYN. They learn to parent out of baby manuals, if they learn at all. "Baby Think It Over" is a start, but you can't take the battery out of a live baby when it won't stop crying. You NEVER know how you really feel about having a baby until you find out you're pregnant, and you have NO clue what a huge responsibility it is to raise one until you have one right there in your arms, screaming like a banshee, 24/7. The best birth control out there is having your illusions shattered about childrearing.
Good post. I'm one of 7, and my mother gave me a brother when I was 8 and another when I was 11. I knew how to care for an infant, and by 12 I had the market cornered on babysitting in my neighborhood because I knew how to warm and test bottles and change diapers and get a crying infant back to sleep.

Related to that idea of teenagers not knowing much about babies, some years ago, in my area of NJ, a well-to-do young college-age couple hid the girl's pregnancy and went to a motel to give birth, after which they put the baby in the Dumpster. They were found out because they didn't know you also had to deliver the placenta, and the girl started bleeding and collapsed later that night and ended up in the hospital. The dead baby was found, and the couple was charged with the killing.

One of the things that the boy said during the trial was that the girl was yelling "Get rid of it, just get rid of it" and he thought that the baby looked as if it had something wrong with it anyway, and that made it easier just to put it in the garbage (or so he said).

But I wondered--would a young couple like that even have the sense to know what a newborn baby looks like? They are hideous--wrinkled and curled up and covered with gunk. Even on TV and movies, the newborns look all clean and bright and miraculously three months old, like a Gerber baby. I could see him looking at this thing that came out of his girlfriend and thinking it was an alien.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > True Crime
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top