U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > True Crime
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 01-12-2012, 09:48 PM
 
9,912 posts, read 9,307,633 times
Reputation: 8053

Advertisements

At least they have this woman in jail on a million dollar bond. Jackie Burkle, 22, of Huxley, Iowa was charged with two counts of first-degree murder in the deaths of her newborn twins last week.

Police found the infants’ bodies Saturday in the trunk of Burkle’s car, parked in front of her home, across the street from the police department in the town of about 2,800 people, about 20 miles north of Des Moines.

Bond set at $1 million for Iowa mother accused of killing her newborn twins - The Washington Post (http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/iowa-mother-arrested-charged-with-murder-in-deaths-of-twin-baby-girls-found-in-trunk-of-car/2012/01/10/gIQAzXXEpP_story.html - broken link)
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 01-13-2012, 09:28 AM
 
1,617 posts, read 2,466,340 times
Reputation: 1352
For an Ethics course several years ago, I had to write a paper about forced sterilization and include both sides of this controversial issue - it was an interesting and clearly, thought-provoking project and ultimately a lively conversation in class.

I must say that if I had to write this paper all over again, I might not be as one-sided as I previously projected in that paper.

At the risk of this becoming a thread that could be chatted about under "other controversies" and would not like to see it moved, [smile], at all given that this posting is associated with this particular true crime, I am wondering what could happen in a case, such as this one, if a judge and/or jury not only found the woman guilty and sentenced her to prison, appropriately, but also as an additional sentence and/or conditions of ultimate release [if there was a release date] mandated sterilization.

Thoughts?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-13-2012, 10:02 AM
 
Location: Native Floridian, USA
4,904 posts, read 6,121,449 times
Reputation: 6112
Quote:
Originally Posted by sugarmaple View Post
For an Ethics course several years ago, I had to write a paper about forced sterilization and include both sides of this controversial issue - it was an interesting and clearly, thought-provoking project and ultimately a lively conversation in class.

I must say that if I had to write this paper all over again, I might not be as one-sided as I previously projected in that paper.

At the risk of this becoming a thread that could be chatted about under "other controversies" and would not like to see it moved, [smile], at all given that this posting is associated with this particular true crime, I am wondering what could happen in a case, such as this one, if a judge and/or jury not only found the woman guilty and sentenced her to prison, appropriately, but also as an additional sentence and/or conditions of ultimate release [if there was a release date] mandated sterilization.

Thoughts?
Great post and I think you should pose this question in the Great Debates forum. I would read avidly. I think I would be for it but, would be hard pressed to articulate my thoughts. I agree I like the original thread to be here. Such a tragedy.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-13-2012, 10:04 AM
 
Location: Texas
43,562 posts, read 52,699,775 times
Reputation: 70859
Frankly, I am not sure why people have to take courses to get licenses to drive, etc, but being a parent is just willy nilly your 'right'...either way, you have a BIG responsibility and can affect many other lives.

It's just loaded...this whole not fit to be a parent thing. No one wants to touch it.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-13-2012, 10:29 AM
 
Location: Native Floridian, USA
4,904 posts, read 6,121,449 times
Reputation: 6112
Quote:
Originally Posted by stan4 View Post
Frankly, I am not sure why people have to take courses to get licenses to drive, etc, but being a parent is just willy nilly your 'right'...either way, you have a BIG responsibility and can affect many other lives.

It's just loaded...this whole not fit to be a parent thing. No one wants to touch it.
I agree. It definitely is a slippery sloop. First sterilization, next, ? My feeling would be with a crime like this and no insanity, there should be an enforced sterilization. Also for drug addicts, alcoholics, people who commit crimes against children.....but how do you work through something like this ?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-13-2012, 11:01 AM
 
1,617 posts, read 2,466,340 times
Reputation: 1352
Thanks AnnieA and I would like to see this remain w/in this thread.

So, to expand on it a bit more ---

A person gets convicted of a sexual assault crime- does prison - gets released AND is put on the offender registry AND the offender knows this is going to happen [that is the risk taken when perpetrating that crime];

An HIV/AIDS person [knowingly has this illness] and continues to have unprotected sex and infects others is now charged w/crime[s] - again, true crime situation - and is convicted [that too is the risk taken when perpetrating that crime]; thus,

A person who murders her own children, in addition to being sentenced for a very appropriate length of time - a true crime situation - could know that there will be an additional consequence - ?forced sterilization. Granted each case could be looked at on its individual merits - serious psychological problem - and if that is the case, would that excuse or warrant such a dramatic consequence?

I trust that would be a very heated debate w/legislators. I also understand there is a difference being on a registry or in prison for assault or attempted murder / depraved indifference creating an ultimate death [examples] because of unprotected sex w/positive HIV/AIDS - forced sterilization is clearly an invasive procedure although there are different types of sterilization [maybe IUD/the pill] rather than a tubal for a period of time with mandated parenting classes for x period of time.

I have no idea what the appropriate consequences should be, other than some term of incarceration.

One platform should certainly be preventative measures - education - I think, for example, everyone in high school should have to take a required Life101 class which would include: how to balance a checkbook, how to cook and wash clothes AND parenting classes. We can think that is way to early to teach kids, but we also know that there many teen pregnancies and many of those teens have no clue how to do much in the realm of every day living....perhaps that sort of required class could ultimately prevent such a tragedy as the one we are discussing in this thread.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-13-2012, 03:34 PM
 
1,617 posts, read 2,466,340 times
Reputation: 1352
Granted this is not exactly the same venue, although in some cases [noted in this article] about North Carolina and preparing to make reparations to those innocent victims who were sterilized against their will - eugenics program - YIKES, I did not realize that NC was still doing this as late as the 1970's.....interesting article [sort of] and definitely scary as well.

Definitely not a quick fix solution for addressing offenders; questionable fix for addressing some violent offenders, especially those who murder their children -- oh brother --

And certainly a disheartening article, not the compensation part but the deed[s] themselves:
North Carolina task force recommends $50,000 for sterilization victims – In America - CNN.com Blogs
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-13-2012, 04:20 PM
 
9,912 posts, read 9,307,633 times
Reputation: 8053
Quote:
Originally Posted by sugarmaple View Post
For an Ethics course several years ago, I had to write a paper about forced sterilization and include both sides of this controversial issue - it was an interesting and clearly, thought-provoking project and ultimately a lively conversation in class.

I must say that if I had to write this paper all over again, I might not be as one-sided as I previously projected in that paper.

At the risk of this becoming a thread that could be chatted about under "other controversies" and would not like to see it moved, [smile], at all given that this posting is associated with this particular true crime, I am wondering what could happen in a case, such as this one, if a judge and/or jury not only found the woman guilty and sentenced her to prison, appropriately, but also as an additional sentence and/or conditions of ultimate release [if there was a release date] mandated sterilization.

Thoughts?
A 20th century eugenics program which was stopped in the 1980's was a mass sterilization program that targeted poor minorities. During the period it was enforced 65,000 Americans were sterilized before the last program was shut down in the early 1980's.

North Carolina sterilized more than 7,600 people from 1929 to 1974 -- one of many other states in attempts to weed out criminals and the mentally disabled.

All decisions was made by the North Carolina Eugenics Board, a five-person state committee responsible for ordering the sterilization of thousands of individuals in the name of social welfare.

This week in North Carolina the Eugenics Compensation Task Force recommended the lump-sum payment of $50,000 to each person that was sterilized. They placed a three-year statute of limitations on claiming those funds. The parties involved are not happy with the $50k settlement.

When I was pregnant with our daughter I was in my OB/Gyn Doc's office and a DSS case worker brought a little girl 12 yrs old in to see the doc. She was mentally retarded and pregnant. She had no earthly idea what was happening to her body and I mean she was pretty far along due to the size of her belly with little stick arms and legs. She sat in the floor and played with a toy. I have never forgotten seeing that child in that condition.

I have mixed feeling on sterilization but I firmly believe in birth control and most Health Departments will provide free birth control for those that qualify.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-13-2012, 04:49 PM
 
1,617 posts, read 2,466,340 times
Reputation: 1352
I too have mixed feelings about forced sterilization - I am just throwing out a controversial topic in respect to the woman who murdered her twins - should that be part of a mandated consequence along with being sentenced? And if so, what criteria would be used for others, especially those who murder their children? Or, would it be part of their mandated sentence if they attempted to murder their children? Clearly, that would not necessarily save those children if she tried it again....

I have always always believed that there are many many shades of gray - not all things/crimes are black and white, i.e., crystal clear - like literally caught in the act - however, from reading more and more of these True Crime posts and the cases, I am beginning to think there is much more charcoal/black than say, a powder blue gray to a silver gray.

Horrible what people do to each other, let alone to children. That is a whole different league of offenders, in my opinion. Pretty much the worst of the batch.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-13-2012, 06:42 PM
 
9,912 posts, read 9,307,633 times
Reputation: 8053
Quote:
Originally Posted by sugarmaple View Post
I too have mixed feelings about forced sterilization - I am just throwing out a controversial topic in respect to the woman who murdered her twins - should that be part of a mandated consequence along with being sentenced? And if so, what criteria would be used for others, especially those who murder their children? Or, would it be part of their mandated sentence if they attempted to murder their children? Clearly, that would not necessarily save those children if she tried it again....

I have always always believed that there are many many shades of gray - not all things/crimes are black and white, i.e., crystal clear - like literally caught in the act - however, from reading more and more of these True Crime posts and the cases, I am beginning to think there is much more charcoal/black than say, a powder blue gray to a silver gray.

Horrible what people do to each other, let alone to children. That is a whole different league of offenders, in my opinion. Pretty much the worst of the batch.
At least this lady is in jail with a million dollar bond ... in September 2011 Lindsey Lowe smothered to death her newborn twins as she delivered them in the bathroom at her parents home and then placed them in a clothes basket in her room ... she is out on bond. She was engaged and after the autopsy on the babies they didn't belong to her fiancé. She was cheating on him!

There is a thread on her case too ... she delivered the twins, killed them, dumped them and went to work!!!! NO ONE knew she was pregnant. How can you not recognize someone is 9 months pregnant with twins.

I feel like .... well Jackie Burkle you blew it ... no more chances for you to kill another baby ... snip snip tie those tubes ... same with Lindsey Lowe ... but is that right to take that away? Casey Anthony needs to be snip snip with the tubes too. But if the tubes are just tied and not cauterized they can be untied in later years.

LEO can install something in a vehicle to check alcohol levels on habitual drunk drivers ... if they are intoxicated they cannot start their car ... great idea ... let them walk or call a cab. It seems we should be able to stop the unwanted babies that only end up dead.

These women that pop out a baby every nine months, not to kill them but to increase their food stamps, welfare checks and WIC payments ... something needs to be done about that too.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > True Crime
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top