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Yes, the fact Allen worked as a life guard at the public pool in Lompoc back in that time period, early 1960s is also a very odd coincidence.
However, investigators were never able to determine exactly where Allen was at the time of the murders, June 6, 1963 as by the time he even became a suspect at all, some 8 years had elapsed. Not really sure if this case was even investigated thoroughly, whether as a possible Zodiac crime or otherwise.
Lompoc was a small community back in 1963, where murders like this were rare indeed and when you read the contemporary news articles and available documents, the investigation had a decidedly casual and old-fashioned [read, out-dated] quality to it.
In 1963, the investigators--and much of the Lompoc community, were of the opinion Domingos and/or Edwards knew the killer, though nobody was ever publicly identified as a suspect. Domingos was quite popular in not only the high school he and his fiance Edwards attended, but also in the general community----his father was a well-liked farmer in town, with about 60 acres of orchards, which son Robert helped work on his time off. Robert Domingos and Linda Edwards were planning to be married in October of that year. They are buried near each other in the town's cemetery.
Yes, back then there was hardly any real mentality about serial killers and small towns and large cities handled killings much differently than nowadays. It is funny how Allen(almost exonerated of the crimes) just keeps showing up in mystical ways everywhere, isn't it? The green river killer, gary Ridgeway was a suspect from day one and many years later first intuition was true. He passed all kinds of tests law enforcement laid on him, but they still always fell back on him just as Allen in the zodiac killings. He is the suspect that just will not go away, no matter what theories prove he is not the zodiac. I don't know what to think anymore about all this.
Yes, back then there was hardly any real mentality about serial killers and small towns and large cities handled killings much differently than nowadays. It is funny how Allen(almost exonerated of the crimes) just keeps showing up in mystical ways everywhere, isn't it? The green river killer, gary Ridgeway was a suspect from day one and many years later first intuition was true. He passed all kinds of tests law enforcement laid on him, but they still always fell back on him just as Allen in the zodiac killings. He is the suspect that just will not go away, no matter what theories prove he is not the zodiac. I don't know what to think anymore about all this.
Regarding Allen: many followers of the Z case are at odds as to whether or not he is guilty, proven innocent, somewhere in between....however, I will say this regarding those who claim Allen was actually 'proven' innocent.
Those in that 'proven innocent' camp typically point towards the DNA tests conducted on the Z letters back in 2001-02, of which several 'confirmed' were tested....many either had no detectable cells at all, or contained DNA too degraded to be usable for comparison, except for one. Foolishly, the 1978 letter was included in with the genuine, confirmed ones tested!!
(The 1978 letter is by and large considered a forgery by experts in questioned documents). Funny that it also is the only letter to yield viable DNA, while all of the others do not (the 1969 letters were likely sealed with water pen, not someone's tongue saliva--some of the later ones had degraded dna). Allen's DNA, taken from an old autopsy slide, when he died in 1992, was used to obtain his DNA for comparison, and it did not match the DNA from the 1978 letter, the fake.
Second, fingerprints of Allen, from his 1958 arrest, well as 1974 arrest and commitment to the state hospital were used to compare to the only known prints from a Zodiac crime scene: the highly conspicuous bloody hand print in Paul Stine's cab.
Investigators have long been at odds over that blood hand-print's authenticity regarding if it really was from the killer or not. For such a meticulous killer, it was indeed surprising--shocking really, to have such evidence left behind. The cab had of course literally hundreds of prints, many smudged as it was a working taxi cab.
Of the confirmed Z letters, none contained any fingerprints, and the envelopes of course had numerous from mail handlers, etc. Of the scant evidence left behind at crime scenes, just some cut lengths of twine and cartridge shells and extracted bullets..none contained prints. However, since the handprint in the cab is perhaps the killer's, yet does not appear to match Allen, I would put some weight on this and drop him down some notches on the "suspect pole", if you will. The DNA comparison is garbage as it was comparing Allen against an apparent forgery.
Personally, I consider Allen 'not proven innocent', but I would not quite say he is guilty, either. I think while he certainly looks like a very good suspect, other ones should still be considered. The print evidence does concern me a bit.
The older forum threads (1999-2003) on zodiackiller.com have some great entries by a number of highly knowledgeable people, including two or three retired detectives who worked this case back in the 1980s or so. I really recommend those to anyone who wants detailed info..it also reveals the extent Greysmith's two books on the case are so riddled with errors.
Last edited by Austin023; 01-08-2017 at 03:02 AM..
Reason: correction
In one of the Zodiac Killer documentaries on youtube, David Foulke, one of the officers who probably passed the Zodiac on the street on the night of the Paul Stine murder, stated that Arthur Leigh Allen was 100 pounds heavier than the man he saw that night. In another documentary Bryan Hartnell, the Zodiac survivor at Berryessa, stated that he didn't think Arthur Leigh Allen was the man who attacked him.
I suspect that Arthur Leigh Allen was part of a Zodiac team, and that he was the creator of the concept. On the night of the first murder (December, 1968) a young man and his girlfriend reported being pursued by two men in a car about 30 murders before the attack on David and Mary Lou. The two police sketches (Berryessa & San Francisco) appear to me to be of two different men. Witnesses described the suspect as being around 5'8 and 170-190 pounds. The footprint with the Wing Walker boot indicated a man around 250 pounds. The police gauged the man's age as being 35 to 45 while other witnesses stated the Zodiac was 25 to 35. I think Arthur Leigh Allen washed out of the Navy and he was fired from his teaching post making him a bitter man. The Zodiac murder spree was proof of his superior intelligence. I think he followed Jack the Ripper's lead by confining himself to five murders over a 10 month period (Jack murdered 5 in 3 months). He stopped before he was captured. I think he had a falling up with his teammate and the partnership dissolved. The partner kept up the letter-writing campaign to entice Arthur Leigh Allen back into service. I think the partner was either Rick Marshall or Richard Gaikowski. Of course, this al pure speculation on my part from the comfort of my study in South Carolina 47 years after the fact.
So I think the Zodiac is now dead and gone. Unfortunately I don't believe the 'evidence' is good enough to ever really solve the case to everyone's satisfaction. I think the Zodiac was too smart to be caught-out on handwriting or finger prints. I think he ditched his weapons as soon as he used them. I think he was smart enough not to keep trophies in his home from his victims. Arthur Leigh Allen was intelligent enough to suspect science would catch-up on spit from his mouth.
One last remark about the team Zodiac theory: the somebody wrote on Bryan Hartnell's car on the day of the attack but no traces of blood were found on the car door. I suppose it is Zodiac possible wrote his message before the attack but I don't think it's likely. I think it was the teammate who wrote it.
I also think the teammate murdered Paul Stine and he was headed to a pickup point where Arthur Leigh Allen was to be waiting with a car. I think Arthur panicked when he got a load of all of the squad cars and he bailed out leaving the partner behind. This lead to the dissolving of the team.
A few years afterwards, Arthur was in a prison hospital and he told several people that he "almost hoped that the Zodiac would do something" to get him off of the hook. It sounded like a man who knew that his partner in crime had left him to swing in the wind when he easily could have written a letter to the press and gotten ALA off the hook.
In one of the Zodiac Killer documentaries on youtube, David Foulke, one of the officers who probably passed the Zodiac on the street on the night of the Paul Stine murder, stated that Arthur Leigh Allen was 100 pounds heavier than the man he saw that night. In another documentary Bryan Hartnell, the Zodiac survivor at Berryessa, stated that he didn't think Arthur Leigh Allen was the man who attacked him.
Good points that are possible,(height,weight,description) I have read the opposing views to this also. People often make unreliable description witnesses under duress. I believe Allen is still a viable suspect, but there are others that could make good on that also. I didn't hear hartnell say he didn't think Allen was his attacker.
Do you have a link to this documentary(hartnell) I would like to view it? Thanks for your post
Hello, ezrider, it was the documentary that came out a few years ago on television where Tom Voigt was advocating Richard Gaikowski as the Zodiac and Nancy Slover, the telephone operator, confirmed that Richard's voice was the same as the Zodiac. I had to go back to search for it myself because I was surprised by what Bryan said as I always thought he had said Arthur Leigh Allen 'was' a good match to the Zodiac.
I agree that eyewitness accounts aren't always accurate, especially at night. Arthur Leigh Allen was an immense man (football player big) and I doubt he'd be underestimated by 4 inches and 100 pounds. I still think Allen is in the mix myself. Officer Foulke described the man he saw as looking like he was of 'Welsh' ancestry.
I had suggested at a few Zodiac sites that the DNA extracted from the Zodiac letters and stamps should be put in the Family Tree DNA Research Data Base conducted by National Geographical because it could identify regional origins and DNA relatives. If Zodiac was Larry Kane it would indicate Jewish DNA. If the Zodiac was Richard Gaikowski the DNA would indicate Polish DNA. For example: my DNA indicates I'm 54% British Isles, 29 % Norman via Norway and 17% Eastern European. And the data base can trace my direct male ancestor to the Norman Invasion of Ireland in the 12th or 13th century.
I think the palm print was found on a Zodiac letter in recent years and could be that of a police officer or reporter handling the letter once it was in custody. The bloody finger print was found inside of the cab. I think urban cabs and telephones are crusted with finger prints.
My four top POIs for Zodiac are Arthur Leigh Allen, Richard Gaikowski, Rick Marshall and Larry Kasne: all four are dead now. I think Kane kidnapped Donna Lass and Kathleen John. I think Arthur Leigh Allen and one of the others were a team Zodiac and that the other partner killed Paul Stine.
Hello, ezrider, it was the documentary that came out a few years ago on television where Tom Voigt was advocating Richard Gaikowski as the Zodiac and Nancy Slover, the telephone operator, confirmed that Richard's voice was the same as the Zodiac. I had to go back to search for it myself because I was surprised by what Bryan said as I always thought he had said Arthur Leigh Allen 'was' a good match to the Zodiac.
I agree that eyewitness accounts aren't always accurate, especially at night. Arthur Leigh Allen was an immense man (football player big) and I doubt he'd be underestimated by 4 inches and 100 pounds. I still think Allen is in the mix myself. Officer Foulke described the man he saw as looking like he was of 'Welsh' ancestry.
I had suggested at a few Zodiac sites that the DNA extracted from the Zodiac letters and stamps should be put in the Family Tree DNA Research Data Base conducted by National Geographical because it could identify regional origins and DNA relatives. If Zodiac was Larry Kane it would indicate Jewish DNA. If the Zodiac was Richard Gaikowski the DNA would indicate Polish DNA. For example: my DNA indicates I'm 54% British Isles, 29 % Norman via Norway and 17% Eastern European. And the data base can trace my direct male ancestor to the Norman Invasion of Ireland in the 12th or 13th century.
I think the palm print was found on a Zodiac letter in recent years and could be that of a police officer or reporter handling the letter once it was in custody. The bloody finger print was found inside of the cab. I think urban cabs and telephones are crusted with finger prints.
My four top POIs for Zodiac are Arthur Leigh Allen, Richard Gaikowski, Rick Marshall and Larry Kasne: all four are dead now. I think Kane kidnapped Donna Lass and Kathleen John. I think Arthur Leigh Allen and one of the others were a team Zodiac and that the other partner killed Paul Stine.
I'll be fishin' around for that movie on the net -thanks. now you got me interested in DNA, I want to check my own. Where can this be done and about costs if you don't mind? Don't worry I am not the zodiac, too young! lol
With the whole DNA thing and Zodiac, I thought the only sample of DNA that was actually recoverable (not degraded) was a sample from either stamp or envelope seal of the 1978 letter (the fake)....and a viable DNA sample was also (amazingly) gotten from skin flakes in the wristband of a watch left at the murder scene of Cheri Jo Bates in Oct., 1966---Allen did not match either. However, neither has ever been conclusively linked to Zodiac, either.
The 1969 letters would be the best bet as their authenticity is unshakable, but unfortunately the DNA on them was either too degraded or none could be found.....or was some other evidence more recently tested?? (like the twine, etc).
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