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Old 12-08-2012, 05:40 PM
 
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Murder of Nubia Barahona - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

For those of you unfamiliar with Nubia's case, and details.

Her Adopted Father, Jorge Barahona, abused, tortured, and finally killed Nubia. There are witnesses, he even tried to kill himself and her brother, Victor.

He is, of course, pleading "Not Guilty".

My question is this...why is no trial date set? What is so complicated?
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Old 12-09-2012, 12:31 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jasper12 View Post
Murder of Nubia Barahona - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

For those of you unfamiliar with Nubia's case, and details.

Her Adopted Father, Jorge Barahona, abused, tortured, and finally killed Nubia. There are witnesses, he even tried to kill himself and her brother, Victor.

He is, of course, pleading "Not Guilty".

My question is this...why is no trial date set? What is so complicated?

According to the link, it's a death penalty case. Those take forever.
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Old 12-09-2012, 07:00 AM
 
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Even the "Casey Anthony" trial date was set and occurred within three years of Caylee's death. I think that they are stalling because of the incredible information brought out on the CPS angle in this tragedy.
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Old 12-09-2012, 08:38 AM
 
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Originally Posted by jasper12 View Post
Even the "Casey Anthony" trial date was set and occurred within three years of Caylee's death. I think that they are stalling because of the incredible information brought out on the CPS angle in this tragedy.

It's possible. We've got a similar case (less extreme, but still deadly) here in the valley. A little boy was beaten to death on the same day that his school contacted CPS.

CPS Notified Before Boy's Beating Death - 8 News NOW

Mother, stepfather arrested in beating death of 7-year-old - Las Vegas Sun News
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Old 12-09-2012, 09:15 AM
 
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Reasons for delays in a trial can be multitudinous. Expert testimony and analysis of evidence can take a long time to do right. The other side is entitled to get a copy of all these results and test the same evidence with their own expert if they choose. Plea negotiations can be time consuming, but worthwhile if they end up avoiding a trial that can be long, costly and sometimes have an uncertain outcome.

I focus on one thing though. If the defendant is in jail its likely that limited harm is being done by the delay. The exception would be a case that depends on eyewitness testimony and there is a fear that an eyewitness could die, become forgetful, or be unavailable for trial. However, some testimony is preserved through a deposition format or because it is given at a preliminary hearing.

Another factor is that after some crimes there is a huge public groundswell against a defendant that makes it hard for him/her to get a fair trial. Waiting a couple of years can cause tempers to cool down some and make the overall climate more likely to produce a fair result.

Unless evidence is being lost and unless a dangerous perpetrator is at large, I'd prefer the system take its time and dot the i's and cross the t's.
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Old 12-09-2012, 01:58 PM
 
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I suppose so. I just think the longer the delays, the more likely there is for an acquittal, ie, missing evidence, lack of eyewitness testimony, and the defense team can use the time factor to confuse witness testimony.

A Granddaughter, reported these kids as being abused. To a school counselor. I think there should be some sort of law, if an adult, knows a child is being abused, and does not report it, that they should also be charged. At least Nubia's death was the proverbial "straw that broke the camel's back", highlighting the major issues with CPS in Florida.
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Old 12-09-2012, 04:15 PM
 
Location: Dublin, CA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markg91359 View Post
Reasons for delays in a trial can be multitudinous. Expert testimony and analysis of evidence can take a long time to do right. The other side is entitled to get a copy of all these results and test the same evidence with their own expert if they choose. Plea negotiations can be time consuming, but worthwhile if they end up avoiding a trial that can be long, costly and sometimes have an uncertain outcome.

I focus on one thing though. If the defendant is in jail its likely that limited harm is being done by the delay. The exception would be a case that depends on eyewitness testimony and there is a fear that an eyewitness could die, become forgetful, or be unavailable for trial. However, some testimony is preserved through a deposition format or because it is given at a preliminary hearing.

Another factor is that after some crimes there is a huge public groundswell against a defendant that makes it hard for him/her to get a fair trial. Waiting a couple of years can cause tempers to cool down some and make the overall climate more likely to produce a fair result.

Unless evidence is being lost and unless a dangerous perpetrator is at large, I'd prefer the system take its time and dot the i's and cross the t's.
Mark is, as per usual, correct. There is alot more and I'll throw in some of them, which I have personally seen (I'll also take him to task on others):

Attorneys, judges, police officers, court reporters, ET AL have LIVES outside of their work. That means vacations, illnesses, family illnesses, kids 6th grade play, etc. You have, in this case, THOUSANDS of witnesses and they must be brought together at some sort of a "time." The time could be 1 month, to 1 year. However, the logistics of such an undertaking is EXTREMELY difficult and time consuming.

In so far as delaying the procedure to allow public opinion to settle. Quite true. HOWEVER, there are other benefits (and bad things too) to delaying the trial. This is generally a defense strategy to delay the trial. Witnesses are sometimes impossible to locate. Evidence gets lost. Witnesses DIE. Their memory becomes "foggy." I could go on and on about this.

Flip side? I don't want to turn this into an OJ Simpson issue, however, the greatest move his defense team did was not wave time. They forced to the prosecution to go to trial when they (the DA) were not ready and because of this, made MANY fatal errors.

If said it several times here before and I really get lambasted for it. However, like it or not, our criminal justice system IS a game. Its one huge chess game and you move here, I'll move there. It rarely comes down to guilt or innocence.
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Old 12-09-2012, 04:36 PM
 
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I guess so. I just don't want this piece of excrement to be released because he did not get a trial date within a reasonable amount of time.

Zimmerman's trial date is already set for June. And the Trayvon shooting was in February 2012. They did not wait years, to set a trial date.

My main issue, is that NO date is set at all.

I guess Mark is right, as long as these monsters are in jail, held without bail, that is okay. How long can people be held in jail without bail? If we are a society that states "innocent" until proven guilty, these monsters have pretty much already been judged as being guilty. Just seems very odd to me...
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Old 12-09-2012, 07:14 PM
 
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Quote:
If said it several times here before and I really get lambasted for it. However, like it or not, our criminal justice system IS a game. Its one huge chess game and you move here, I'll move there. It rarely comes down to guilt or innocence.
You know I don't disagree with this statement. The only thing that should perhaps be delineated a bit is what is meant by "game".

If when one says "game" one is talking about a childhood pursuit where the players care very little about the outcome and don't carefully analyze the decisions they make than the criminal justice system is not analogous to that sort of a game. However, if one simply means that there are a group of players and that the process (or "game") is played according to certain rules, than I don't disagree. Not all rules are written, but virtually all the players understand them. In a small community, one unwritten rule is that all of us will deal with one another again (prosecutor, cops, defense attorneys). Therefore, no one wants any one participant to get hurt too badly. It is no exaggeration to say that treating everyone you encounter with respect is absolutely critical. This is a HUGE unwritten rule. Of course, I suspect this "rule" doesn't exist in larger communities.

I gave up practicing criminal defense a decade or more ago. I've found that civil law is more profitable and another key factor is that it is not emotionally draining. People don't get very worked up over car accidents and insurance claims. I will describe an experience or two that may give someone an idea what is meant when we describe this as the sort of "game" I talk about above.

1. I represent a client charged with DUI. It terms out that the guy never had a DUI before and the reason he is in trouble is because he had four drinks in an hour and made the mistake of driving. No accident was involved in his offense. The state law mandates an automatic suspension of the guys license for three months. This is tantamount to him losing his job and means of support for his wife and kids. I can't get the prosecutor to agree to a deal where he pleads guilty to a lesser offense which is often how I resolved these cases when I had them. The prosecutor wants to help, but there is a rule in his office that DUI cases are not to be plea bargained. In reality, the cop who ticketed my client doesn't particularly like this either. Together, the prosecutor, the cop, and myself work out a strange deal. The cop will ask for vacation time (which he never intends to take) when the case is set for trial. I will press to keep the trial date. The prosecutor will mention my motion to the head DA. The head DA agrees to depart from office policy under these circumstances and allow a plea to the offense of reckless driving. My client keeps his driver's license, pays a fine, never re-offends, and everyone is happy.

2. I speak to a police officer about a case in which I was appointed by the court to defend a robber. The officer saw certain things he is prepared to testify too. Some of those things are founded more upon opinion than any real facts. Primarily, out of deference to me, the officer agrees to leave out of some of his testimony that is really pure opinion--but that he would probably get to testify too--if the matter was pressed.

3. I had a job once in the attorney general's office of my state which primarily involve writing briefs in cases where criminal convictions were involved. At that time, counsel depended on stipulations from the other side to enlarge the time he had to file a brief in response to the other side's brief. You better believe that you were nice to opposing counsel. You better believe that you were liberal in granting them extensions because the shoe could easily end up on the other foot.

4. In the job I mentioned in #3, I learned that politics were a major consideration in what we did. Some cases didn't really bother anyone. No one really cared about theft offenses I learned and you could do just about what you wanted in that kind of a case. However, there was great public interest in DUI cases involving injury or death, murder cases (of course), and sexual assaults on children. Sometimes, my boss would show me stacks of mail from victim's rights groups. Often, this kind of pressure dictated how long I spent writing a brief in a particular case. I truly dreaded Fridays. I knew that I would be taking work home over the weekend if we had the "wrong kind mail" come in.

I never felt any of the things we did were morally wrong. What they did was educate me how complex this world is. The "squeaky wheel does get the grease" when it comes to criminal justice and elsewhere in life.

Finally, what many outside the system don't grasp is how important the relationships between the various parties (prosecutors, cops, defense attorneys, and judges) really are. Its not necessarily bad at all. It supplies a sort of mechanism that allows the system to function with some efficiency.
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Old 12-09-2012, 07:49 PM
 
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Politics. And that is what I think is dragging out this case. For some reason, this case is going to lay open a can of worms. It already has lead to changes in CPS in Florida.

I bet, that they are working a deal to make this go away. And if they wait long enough, public outrage will die down. They can cut a deal with this guy and his wife, take the death penalty off the table. That is what is dragging this whole thing. Someone wants to just make this go away, with no trial.
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