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Old 12-18-2012, 07:09 AM
 
Location: Coastal New Jersey
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jasper12 View Post
I do feel empathy for young girls who kill their babies, after hiding their pregnancy. I wonder about the dysfunction of a family where a girl can hide a pregnancy, give birth, say nothing, and be in fear? Denial? Not sure what the reasoning is behind the thought process...but definitely it is something major wrong in a family system when a girl would kill a baby rather than go to her parents for help. And the parents don't notice a pregnant teen in the house. Sure, some girls don't show, but how about not using feminine products for several months? Parents are oblivious? Don't they take their daughters out shopping for clothes? Do they talk to their daughters? Very odd to me.

Cops: Teen girl kills baby, hides remains in shoebox | HLNtv.com
The situation is not always as simple as you would like it to be from your outside view. My sister hid her pregnancy for a long time. She was in high school, and my mother was very religious and very concerned about what people in her church thought, and my sister was just terrified to her she was pregnant. As a matter of fact, my sister went into some sort of denial herself about the pregnancy. Her best friend knew about it and kept asking her what she was going to do, and my sister wouldn't talk about it. Then, when my friend's sister, who was in the same high school, started to hear rumors, she told my friend who told me and we tried to talk to her about it to help her She said she had put on weight and flat-out denied to us that she was pregnant.

Why would our mother have monitored our use of feminine products? That's a little weird. A 17-year-old takes care of that herself. Same with shopping for clothes--by that age you are usually doing your own clothes shopping.

She put on weight, but she didn't really look "pregnant", not in the way you think of a pregnant woman who is protruding noticeably. My sister was an athlete and taking her gym classes, and it was the 70s so she was wearing jeans and big flannel shirts like everyone else.

Finally, my mother did begin to suspect, and she asked my sister if she was pregnant, and my sister again denied it. But, my mother noticed my sister's feet had begun to swell, and she was worried about toxemia and sent her to the doctor to have the doctor look at her. The doctor called my mother afterward and said that my sister was about 6 or 7 months pregnant and that she had denied that she was pregnant to HIM. When my sister came home, she told my mother that the doctor had told her to soak her feet in epsom salts and stop walking around barefoot so much. At that point my mother sat her down and said, "I KNOW you are pregnant. The doctor knows you are pregnant", and then my sister finally admitted it. She was just so scared. My mother and sister talked about giving the baby up for adoption, and my mother knew a lady who worked in a Christian adoption agency and made arrangements for her to meet with my sister the following week.

But...no onei, ncluding the doctor, ever actually ASKED my sister how far along she was. The doctor had assumed 6 - 7 months from examining her, but my sister was nine months pregnant by then. A day or two later, the night before her high school graduation, after about two and a half hours of labor, she gave birth to a perfectly healthy little girl. Once she held her, she had second thoughts about adoption, but my mother was bringing the adoption lady to the hospital. The rest of us, her siblings, converged on the hospital before the adoption lady got there and told our sister that if she wanted to keep and raise her baby, we would help her get on her feet. My mother was outnumbered.

My niece is now 33 years old, and a great person. My sister raised her with our help, and my parents' help, and eventually supported her daughter and herself on our own, went to college by going nights for many years, and got her Master's, too.

Oh, and just a couple of years ago, my sister told me that when she finally admitted her pregnancy to my mother, my mother said, "I expected that out of Mightyqueen, not you."
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Old 12-18-2012, 12:26 PM
 
Location: Ostend,Belgium....
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Jasper, thanks but I was 17 then and probably used to making decisions from very early on. You can't compare two people, not everyone can get through it without panicking. Even though I had many scary moments.
I too think young girls who kill their baby should be treated on a case by case basis. You hear of girls who have their baby in their school's bathroom and so on.
I had a very caring staff at the hospital who helped me so much and after I had my son too. Plus I went to single mom counseling....
goodness, Mightyqueen..that's sad really but also a great ending to what could have been dramatic...
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Old 12-18-2012, 01:27 PM
 
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I guess. I am just very close to my daughter. And she is the type, who tells her Dad, "get me some "stuff" at the store"--she always tells him, because he hates buying that stuff. LOL.

Glad you guys have happy endings. Unlike that girl in Florida.

My Mom was 14 when she was pregnant with me, she also hid her pregnancy for months, until her sister called her out. Same thing, very strict religious parents, and back in the 50's, sex was never talked about.
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Old 12-18-2012, 02:09 PM
 
1,266 posts, read 1,381,919 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trimac20 View Post
Which serial killers/mass murderers (or even single high profile murderers) do you feel some sympathy for (even if you might simultaneously still revile them) because of say, having a rough childhood or other mitigating circumstances? Of course it doesn't mean you think any less of the crime, but who, if any, of them do you feel somewhat sorry for?

I'd have to say Aileen Wuornos and Charlie Manson are too that come to mind. I still don't think their childhoods make them less responsible, but I can see how it could have warped their minds. Wuornos was abused by her grandparents, who she thought were her parents (sorry, by her grandfather really), and was performing sexual favours for money (because of simple lack of food etc), food.etc from the age of 10. She was also a social outcast. Manson never had any sort of home life, his mother apparently tried to trade him for a pitcher of beer (in some accounts she's a prostitute).

Of course there are millions who are in the same situation as these two who don't go around killing people, but it does make me feel at least a bit more sympathetic than say Ted Bundy.
George Sodini and the Virginia Tech shooter
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Old 12-18-2012, 03:35 PM
 
13,612 posts, read 10,305,182 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jasper12 View Post
I guess. I am just very close to my daughter. And she is the type, who tells her Dad, "get me some "stuff" at the store"--she always tells him, because he hates buying that stuff. LOL.

Glad you guys have happy endings. Unlike that girl in Florida.

My Mom was 14 when she was pregnant with me, she also hid her pregnancy for months, until her sister called her out. Same thing, very strict religious parents, and back in the 50's, sex was never talked about.

I also hid a pregnancy in my teens. I was over six months along before I told my Mom. I was ashamed. I was skinny, so it wasn't obvious and my family probably had some denial going on as well. My family wasn't religious or particularly judgmental. I was just ashamed for letting them down.

I gave birth to a healthy baby boy who was placed for adoption with a couple who had been trying to get pregnant for years. His new mom quit her attorney job on the day she heard she was getting a baby. They sent a picture to the adoption agency when he was about six months old. The nuns forwarded it to me.

Giving birth and then giving that child up was the hardest thing I've ever gone through in my life. I can understand why young girls freak out when faced with the prospect, especially if their family is not supportive.

There are better ways though. Many cities have laws where you can abandon your baby at a firehouse or ER and no one has to be the wiser.
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Old 12-18-2012, 05:06 PM
 
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Thanks for sharing NLVgal, glad you helped that family out. Children are so precious.

Sounds like a lot of girls go through this...I wish there was some way to get the information out, so these girls don't feel so alone. It seems to me like each case is different, each with unique circumstances.

Still, just so sad.
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Old 12-19-2012, 06:49 PM
 
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I feel very mixed about Jeff Dahmer. He seemed to really understand that what he was doing was totally wrong, but he didn't know how to stop himself because killing was the only thing that made him feel better for a short time. He said he wanted to be studied so others could be stopped from doing the same thing. He was clearly on the autism spectrum as well as being cataclysmically depressed and a 12-pack-a-day drinker. As a lifelong Bible student he also felt he deserved to be killed for what he did and asked everyone in prison to kill him, until someone finally did. He wasn't a smirking manipulator like some lifelong criminals. He was a hot mess and he knew it.
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Old 12-20-2012, 03:09 AM
 
13,612 posts, read 10,305,182 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cliffie View Post
I feel very mixed about Jeff Dahmer. He seemed to really understand that what he was doing was totally wrong, but he didn't know how to stop himself because killing was the only thing that made him feel better for a short time. He said he wanted to be studied so others could be stopped from doing the same thing. He was clearly on the autism spectrum as well as being cataclysmically depressed and a 12-pack-a-day drinker. As a lifelong Bible student he also felt he deserved to be killed for what he did and asked everyone in prison to kill him, until someone finally did. He wasn't a smirking manipulator like some lifelong criminals. He was a hot mess and he knew it.
If I remember correctly, he started out with animals and his father found him beating a tree until his hands were bleeding one day. He tried to explain it to his father, but dad didn't "get it'. Dahmer is one of the only serial killers I've heard of that expressed true remorse. I can relate to your opinion, though as I stated upthread, it's my belief that we should punish actions, not people. Nobody should get a pass on murder. I think Dahmer was one one of the rare serial killers that was not a true psychopath / sociopath.
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Old 12-20-2012, 04:26 AM
 
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I have feelings for Adam Lanza. lot of people say to me WHAT??????? are you CRAZY?

He did not sign up for mental illness . I feel his mother was wrong to introduce him to guns and allow him to entertain 99 percent of his day with violent videos

His illness controlled him he had no control of himself. Sadly he was introduced to violence, machine guns, videos...etc.


i feel if he had less access to violence this would have not happened.


i hope anyone who has a child with emotional and or mental issues does not allow them to entertain themselves with violence.
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Old 12-20-2012, 10:36 AM
 
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He was never exposed to "machine guns." Those have been functionally outlawed since the 1930s.

Certainly there are folks for whom proximity to weapons and long term playing of first person shooters will be enough to trigger the underlying problems.

Back to the topic... I never realized that Dahmer expressed remorse. I suppose I never looked beyond his crimes. The bit about his father seeing his struggle and not "getting it" is chilling.
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