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Old 12-25-2012, 11:17 PM
 
Location: earth?
7,288 posts, read 10,853,196 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenneth-Kaunda View Post
ok, thanks for the replies, I'm a bit more clued up on it all now.

still seems like a lot of hype, someone mentioned the DA making his career on this case, for example!

guess, plenty were cashing in on the Manson character.

and if the group had only killed anonymous suburbanites none of this would have made the headlines.

so why is the life of a pretty (but fairly obscure) actress worth that much more than a regular person?
You really had to be there. A class could be done on the subject - there are many variables. One thing was the cultural atmosphere of the time - it was still an innocent time/contrasted with the Vietnam War . . . so a bit of a dichotomy going on. The killings were not only Sharon Tate, but the couple who owned the store. And they were ritualistic and gruesome.

Then there was the "appeal" of Charles Manson, who was not that attractive, per se, but somehow was able to captivate a bevy of women (and some men) to do his bidding. That in itself is an interesting dynamic.

And "back home" hippies were thought to be harmless - until Charles Manson - then overnight, anyone suspected of being a hippie was depraved (especially in areas outside of California, but even in California).

Then there is the Beatles connection and the Dennis Wilson (Beach Boys) connection.

And some of the "girls" came from very well-do-do families, so on the surface you would not assume they could so easily become ritualistic cold-blooded killers.

Sharon Tate - that was another aspect - and Roman Polanski - and also the Folgers' heiress . . .

You really should read Helter Skelter if you want to get the "feel" of it.

Then Manson and his harem would show up in court with shaved heads and "X's" carved into their foreheads . . .
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Old 12-26-2012, 12:47 AM
 
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I've not read the Helter Skelter book but pretty sure I"ve seen the movie - it was good I remember.

but I've just started a book on the Mansons called 'Coming down fast'

so far so good, anyone read it?
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Old 12-26-2012, 08:54 AM
 
Location: FL
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil306 View Post
A couple of other points about the "Manson" killings:

1. Charles Manson never PERSONALLY killed anyone. In fact, there is no real direct evidence he even ordered the killings (although we all know he did).
True, but didn't he shoot someone just before the slayings occurred? I was watching a doumentary on CM and I seem to remember hearing he shot a black guy, but the charge was dropped because the guy didn't want the bullet to be extracted from his body and that bullet would have been the key piece of evidence for a conviction.
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Old 12-26-2012, 09:29 AM
 
Location: Bel Air, California
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plenty of testimony exists that demonstrate that Manson ordered the Ceilo Drive murders and to "make it as gruesome as you can"... He also rode along and picked out the LaBianca house, tied up the couple and then went out and sent in the girls to finish the job. He then drove off leaving the killers to find their own way back to the ranch thinking stupidly that he was insulating himself from the crime.
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Old 12-26-2012, 11:52 AM
 
Location: earth?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Bagu View Post
Not one person has mentioned the La Biancas.

I spoke with him a couple of days before he was killed.
I mentioned those killings. I did not remember their names off the top of my head.
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Old 12-26-2012, 05:12 PM
 
Location: San Antonio
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Because back in the day it was NEWS and NOT THE NORMAL, EVERY DAY NEWS REPORT!!!

You young folk have NO idea the world we grew up in just a generation before you....I graduated HS in 1972....back then, there were pickup truck after pickup truck in the HS parking lot, with the windows DOWN and a gun rack in the back window with 2 guns in it...and NOONE would ever consider touching it!!!!!

That WAS the mass murder of the day....that WAS the evil and cult driving example of evil....there HAD been no Jonestown where 100's followed their leader by "drinking the Koolaid", there were no "mass shootings" or even theather shootings....just "normal" folk who went to work, went to church, raised their kids to be AFRAID of anything getting reported to their parents and respect for the law, put your hands on your heart when the "Pledge of Alligence" was recited every day in school, and the principal had a "Board of Education" on his wall which he would take down and give you 3 licks with should you missbehave.....then, in 1963, Madaline Murry Ohare decided to take "prayer" out of the schools...and look where we have evolved to in just 40 yrs......

No, you living in this world would NOT understand what those of us over 55 do.....
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Old 12-26-2012, 10:50 PM
 
Location: The western periphery of Terra Australis
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Pretty much what has been said. Many cults sprang out of the woodwork in the 60s, this was kind of a darker offshoot of the Hippie movement. There was a fear that crazy cult leaders could seduce innocent kids to becoming murderous zombies. The victims, of course, and the nature of the killing. It's still hard to believe Manson still remains in prison.
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Old 12-26-2012, 11:23 PM
 
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Bugliosi created a mythos around the case that never really existed: the Rasputin bit, the hypnotized killer cult chicks, the Beatles thing was all invented.

The story in short was that Manson was/is bisexual and had a crush on a fellow he had met named Bobby, who played in a kind of informal band organized by Arthur Lee called LOVE. Charlie knew him from the music bit which he was also attempting. Bobby wasn't a "family member" but like most of the kids there he dealt drugs and used them too; one night when he was staying in the apartment of a fairly straight local, a music teacher named Gary Hinman, he was whacked out and "accidentally" cut Gary badly with a cheap imitation Samuri sword he had, and he panicked and refused to get Gary any help and he bled to death. Part of the freak out Bobby had was writing stuff in Gary's blood on the walls. Anyway, the police later caught Bobby driving Gary's car and locked him up. Charlie heard about it and figured that if he could get Bobby released he'd fall in with him and be forever grateful yada yada--you can see where he wanted that to go. So Charlie decided that if he staged a similar crime scene then Gary's death would be attributed to anyone other than Bobby since Bobby would have been in jail at the time and the cops would realize they had arrested the wrong guy. The LaBianco killings were a random choice and didn't work to that end so Charlie decided to make another even gruesomer scene at a house he was familiar with--the old Terry Melcher place now rented to Polanski. Terry was a music producer and like Dennis Wilson he couldn't get rid of Charlie. A lot of the Topanga/Laurel Canyon musicians knew Charlie and thought he had some talent but that he was unstable. Dennis actually had to move out of his house to get rid of the family. Anyway, one of the supposed hypnotized cult chicks ratted on Charlie while they were all living out in the desert and the rest is history. The race war helter-skelter thing was just something they speculated about around the campfire so to speak; it was never a focus of anything like believing that the Beatles were sending him messages. Charlie was the leader of the family because he was from a different background, older and from an institutional life, and he was much more streetwise than the others. Bobby is still in prison in CA too but not at Chino with Charllie.
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Old 12-26-2012, 11:35 PM
 
Location: earth?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by T_Beaver View Post
Bugliosi created a mythos around the case that never really existed: the Rasputin bit, the hypnotized killer cult chicks, the Beatles thing was all invented.

The story in short was that Manson was/is bisexual and had a crush on a fellow he had met named Bobby, who played in a kind of informal band organized by Arthur Lee called LOVE. Charlie knew him from the music bit which he was also attempting. Bobby wasn't a "family member" but like most of the kids there he dealt drugs and used them too; one night when he was staying in the apartment of a fairly straight local, a music teacher named Gary Hinman, he was whacked out and "accidentally" cut Gary badly with a cheap imitation Samuri sword he had, and he panicked and refused to get Gary any help and he bled to death. Part of the freak out Bobby had was writing stuff in Gary's blood on the walls. Anyway, the police later caught Bobby driving Gary's car and locked him up. Charlie heard about it and figured that if he could get Bobby released he'd fall in with him and be forever grateful yada yada--you can see where he wanted that to go. So Charlie decided that if he staged a similar crime scene then Gary's death would be attributed to anyone other than Bobby since Bobby would have been in jail at the time and the cops would realize they had arrested the wrong guy. The LaBianco killings were a random choice and didn't work to that end so Charlie decided to make another even gruesomer scene at a house he was familiar with--the old Terry Melcher place now rented to Polanski. Terry was a music producer and like Dennis Wilson he couldn't get rid of Charlie. A lot of the Topanga/Laurel Canyon musicians knew Charlie and thought he had some talent but that he was unstable. Dennis actually had to move out of his house to get rid of the family. Anyway, one of the supposed hypnotized cult chicks ratted on Charlie while they were all living out in the desert and the rest is history. The race war helter-skelter thing was just something they speculated about around the campfire so to speak; it was never a focus of anything like believing that the Beatles were sending him messages. Charlie was the leader of the family because he was from a different background, older and from an institutional life, and he was much more streetwise than the others. Bobby is still in prison in CA too but not at Chino with Charllie.
I thought I read that theory in Bugliosi's book . . .
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Old 12-26-2012, 11:40 PM
 
165 posts, read 267,234 times
Reputation: 201
Well you didn't, and it's not a theory.
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