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Old 01-02-2013, 07:32 PM
 
Location: Grove City, Ohio
10,143 posts, read 12,407,945 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mightyqueen801 View Post
The Iceman was from NNJ, and at the time of his trial, I hung out at this bar where a young lawyer who was working for the prosecutor's office also came after work. He was in the courtroom during the trial, and he said Kuklinski's eyes were absolutely creepy.

Kuklinski is a "was". He's dead. He got the name Iceman from freezing his victim's bodies in a big freezer to disguise the time of their death.

I didn't know they were making a movie about him, thanks. I'll look for that.
Richard Kuklinski is one of my favorites because he was so evil. A true sociopath.


Richard Kuklinski The Iceman Mafia Hitman HBO interview (2001) Part 1 - YouTube

the movie is done and due to be released in 2013


Iceman Michael Shannon Richard Kuklinski movie test scene trailer - YouTube
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Old 01-05-2013, 07:15 AM
 
Location: Coastal New Jersey
56,266 posts, read 54,712,832 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tijlover View Post
From all the mountains of true crime books I've read, the majority of those who hire contract killers are women, to kill their husbands.

So the question is, how do they find them?

And it's all an exercise in futility anyway, as history proves it, when a spouse is killed, and 10 police officers show up at the crime scene, 8 of those, looking at the surviving spouse, will have G-u-i-l-t-y stamped on their foreheads!
They had women like that on tape on one of the ID shows. They were only willing to pay $1000 or $2000 for a hit. Didn't you think something was up when you could easily get a hit man that cheap?

One of them was a corrections officer at a jail who wanted to kill her husband so she could marry an inmate. The inmate said he himself knew someone who would do it, and then he ratted her out to the authorities in exchange for getting 18 months shaved off his sentence. He then set up the meeting with an undercover cop.

It's almost always the surviving spouse. What puzzles me is how come they don't know that THEY will be the first suspect?
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Old 01-05-2013, 08:51 AM
 
13,612 posts, read 10,323,158 times
Reputation: 17659
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mightyqueen801 View Post
They had women like that on tape on one of the ID shows. They were only willing to pay $1000 or $2000 for a hit. Didn't you think something was up when you could easily get a hit man that cheap?

One of them was a corrections officer at a jail who wanted to kill her husband so she could marry an inmate. The inmate said he himself knew someone who would do it, and then he ratted her out to the authorities in exchange for getting 18 months shaved off his sentence. He then set up the meeting with an undercover cop.

It's almost always the surviving spouse. What puzzles me is how come they don't know that THEY will be the first suspect?
People are stupid, and criminals especially in many cases. I had a friendly relationship with a cop who offered some insight once that I thought made a lot of sense. We were speaking about the death penalty and harsh sentences as a deterrent to crime. He said " Won't work. They never think they are going to be the one to get caught."
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Old 01-08-2013, 10:23 PM
 
Location: Earth Wanderer, longing for the stars.
12,408 posts, read 16,500,080 times
Reputation: 8779
Quote:
Originally Posted by tijlover View Post
From all the mountains of true crime books I've read, the majority of those who hire contract killers are women, to kill their husbands.

So the question is, how do they find them?

And it's all an exercise in futility anyway, as history proves it, when a spouse is killed, and 10 police officers show up at the crime scene, 8 of those, looking at the surviving spouse, will have G-u-i-l-t-y stamped on their foreheads!
From what older people in my family told me years back, before divorces became so available and common there were a lot more mysterious deaths of spouses.

What startles me most of the time is how the spouses of hit men never have a clue.

Are there hit women?

Unless they are trying to 'send a message' I would think professionals would make it look like an accident. Often, if the victim is over 45, there are no autopsies, and I suspect that things are a lot looser if the victim dies/lives in a small community. Aren't there drugs that mimic a heart attack? Doesn't an air bubble inserted into a vein cause one? Look at people falling out of hotel windows and off roofs. Car accidents. Accidental drowning in pools. Fake suicides.

It's almost laughable how some of those women on ID go to a local bar and start asking around and invariably start talking to a cop. There are so many sick puppies in our society. These women can just walk away and yet they are willing to kill for an inheritance. Hmm - maybe a reason for not such a strict pre nuptual?

Last edited by goldengrain; 01-08-2013 at 10:36 PM..
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Old 01-09-2013, 04:45 PM
 
Location: Columbus, Indiana
960 posts, read 1,944,035 times
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I saw one of the Ice Man's daughters on, I think, Dr. Phil. She said he was a great father and treated her and her friends very well, but he was physically abusive to her mom.
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Old 01-10-2013, 07:38 AM
 
12,345 posts, read 18,445,635 times
Reputation: 19273
Quote:
Originally Posted by goldengrain View Post
From what older people in my family told me years back, before divorces became so available and common there were a lot more mysterious deaths of spouses.

What startles me most of the time is how the spouses of hit men never have a clue.

Are there hit women?

Unless they are trying to 'send a message' I would think professionals would make it look like an accident. Often, if the victim is over 45, there are no autopsies, and I suspect that things are a lot looser if the victim dies/lives in a small community. Aren't there drugs that mimic a heart attack? Doesn't an air bubble inserted into a vein cause one? Look at people falling out of hotel windows and off roofs. Car accidents. Accidental drowning in pools. Fake suicides.

It's almost laughable how some of those women on ID go to a local bar and start asking around and invariably start talking to a cop. There are so many sick puppies in our society. These women can just walk away and yet they are willing to kill for an inheritance. Hmm - maybe a reason for not such a strict pre nuptual?
Once again - the proverbial "hit man" does not exist, it's a fictional profession. The stuff of movies and books. There is no such thing.

Their are organized crime thugs that get proficient in killing and get hired again and again by their mob boss employer in between their usual "earning" tasks as bookie, dealer, or whathaveyou, that's about the closest thing to it. They are professional, but they are still crude career criminals and don't get any more sophisticated than a couple bullets into the back of the head.

Rarely, but their are documented cases - governement may hire "black ops" operators (ex military, etc) to kill enemy agents or operatives. This is pretty rare since there is an unwritten rule not to do violence against enemy agents, lest the other side start doing the same. There is one documented case of a russian agent killing an enemy in England with a poison tipped umbrella. Israel has become quite proficient in killing it's enemies as well, using sophisticated explosives, etc.

Their are junkies and losers that may murder for their next fix. This is usually a one time event since they are easily caught. There means of murder are crude and simple.

Last edited by Dd714; 01-10-2013 at 07:49 AM..
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Old 01-10-2013, 09:03 AM
 
10,268 posts, read 12,294,187 times
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Keep an eye out on the cable channel that does Mob stories. Last week they had a couple of serial killer/hit men. One was named Kuklinski (maybe spelling is off). Guy was a good neighbor, with wife/kids (though he threatened them/beat the wife). Interesting enough he got caught for dumping a frozen body (dead guy had been missing 2 years yet had the same clothes on/perfect condition). This guy killed for the mob, killed for experimentation and even at random. One mobster tested him, took him for a ride and pointed out a total stranger and told him to go kill that guy.....Kuklinski did it right then and there.

He recently died in prison. I suspect the "old days, pre-DNA/forensics" people had a much higher success rate. Kukilinksi liked to spray toxic chemicals (like walk by and spray fatal inhalants at someone). His other scam was to lure people in with "good deals." Like a modern day craigslist scam, list something too good to be true, string the buyer along then meet/murder them.

Just watch and episode of CSI or Dexter and you will soon see the "serial killer/hitman" gig is a lot more TV drama than real life. Too much technology working against you


Edit: pretty sure it was on the history channel

Last edited by City Guy997S; 01-10-2013 at 10:06 AM..
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Old 01-12-2013, 11:27 PM
 
Location: Coastal New Jersey
56,266 posts, read 54,712,832 times
Reputation: 66793
Quote:
Originally Posted by City Guy997S View Post
Keep an eye out on the cable channel that does Mob stories. Last week they had a couple of serial killer/hit men. One was named Kuklinski (maybe spelling is off). Guy was a good neighbor, with wife/kids (though he threatened them/beat the wife). Interesting enough he got caught for dumping a frozen body (dead guy had been missing 2 years yet had the same clothes on/perfect condition). This guy killed for the mob, killed for experimentation and even at random. One mobster tested him, took him for a ride and pointed out a total stranger and told him to go kill that guy.....Kuklinski did it right then and there.

He recently died in prison. I suspect the "old days, pre-DNA/forensics" people had a much higher success rate. Kukilinksi liked to spray toxic chemicals (like walk by and spray fatal inhalants at someone). His other scam was to lure people in with "good deals." Like a modern day craigslist scam, list something too good to be true, string the buyer along then meet/murder them.

Just watch and episode of CSI or Dexter and you will soon see the "serial killer/hitman" gig is a lot more TV drama than real life. Too much technology working against you


Edit: pretty sure it was on the history channel
Scroll up. That IS The Iceman, discussed a few posts above yours.
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Old 01-13-2013, 03:45 AM
 
13,612 posts, read 10,323,158 times
Reputation: 17659
I remember watching that HBO documentary on the Iceman years ago. He seemed almost bored when talking about some of the things he had done.
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Old 01-16-2013, 03:52 PM
 
Location: Earth Wanderer, longing for the stars.
12,408 posts, read 16,500,080 times
Reputation: 8779
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dd714 View Post
Once again - the proverbial "hit man" does not exist, it's a fictional profession. The stuff of movies and books. There is no such thing.

Their are organized crime thugs that get proficient in killing and get hired again and again by their mob boss employer in between their usual "earning" tasks as bookie, dealer, or whathaveyou, that's about the closest thing to it. They are professional, but they are still crude career criminals and don't get any more sophisticated than a couple bullets into the back of the head.

Rarely, but their are documented cases - governement may hire "black ops" operators (ex military, etc) to kill enemy agents or operatives. This is pretty rare since there is an unwritten rule not to do violence against enemy agents, lest the other side start doing the same. There is one documented case of a russian agent killing an enemy in England with a poison tipped umbrella. Israel has become quite proficient in killing it's enemies as well, using sophisticated explosives, etc.

Their are junkies and losers that may murder for their next fix. This is usually a one time event since they are easily caught. There means of murder are crude and simple.
I think we are disagreeing. I Kuklinski, the Ice Man, was not 'employed' by the mob. He was a free lance, did work for them, but enjoyed his work and was efficient and would also kill people who were not targeted by the mob.

There is an entire underworld of government intrigue that goes on and we, the public, barely scratch the surface of knowledge of that. The reason why Markov and Litvinenko are known to us is the unique method and it being obvious that they were after were the ex KGB guy who must have had many secrets to share.

Most people who hear that old story of Olsen, the government scientist who 'wanted out', believe he was pushed. Most cases like this just leave so little or confusing evidence that no one is prosecuted.

Just recently Robert Kennedy, Jr. said the Warren Commission was a bunch of hokum. That really is saying, in a round about way, that there was government complicity. Neither Kennedy death was resolved to the satisfaction of many people. It's a horrible thing to say or think about, but I don't think a sane man can arrive at any other conclusion.
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