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Old 01-13-2013, 12:12 PM
 
Location: Ostend,Belgium....
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most women would be afraid to report it in a country where women don't count...
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Old 01-13-2013, 02:55 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Captain_Fingers View Post
It was apparently some sort of off- duty private bus. From what I understand, they're trying to set up an emergency number system now. Better late than never, I guess.

That said, it certainly would have to be a societal issue and not just a basic law and order problem; something along the lines of the acceptance of hanging black people from trees in this country not that long ago, and that changed. So maybe this will too.
It's absolutely a societal issue more than anything. An emergency number won't help if the police turn their backs and refuse to pursue the criminals. It won't stop the cultural view of women either, which is where this behavior springs from.

And just logistically- how do you dial an emergency number when you're being gang-raped on a bus?
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Old 01-13-2013, 05:48 PM
 
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Originally Posted by ParallelJJCat View Post
It's absolutely a societal issue more than anything. An emergency number won't help if the police turn their backs and refuse to pursue the criminals. It won't stop the cultural view of women either, which is where this behavior springs from.

And just logistically- how do you dial an emergency number when you're being gang-raped on a bus?
I believe it's much worse than the police not pursuing criminals. I read about one case where the police tried to force the victim to marry the rapist. We're talking seriously sick, and a complete denial by politicians. But societal issues are not unique to India, as my comment about the treatment of black people in this country indicated. It must have seemed horrendous to live in constant fear of being slung up from a tree, or having your children sold out from under you. Yet, that has been transcended. I want to believe that it could happen in India too, and hopefully the protesters will keep up the pressure on a disgusting group of politicians.

As for the emergency number, I guess it's as difficult to do that while being gang raped as it is to dial it while being held at gun point. But it's better to have one than not have one.
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Old 01-13-2013, 06:22 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Captain_Fingers View Post
I believe it's much worse than the police not pursuing criminals. I read about one case where the police tried to force the victim to marry the rapist. We're talking seriously sick, and a complete denial by politicians. But societal issues are not unique to India, as my comment about the treatment of black people in this country indicated. It must have seemed horrendous to live in constant fear of being slung up from a tree, or having your children sold out from under you. Yet, that has been transcended. I want to believe that it could happen in India too, and hopefully the protesters will keep up the pressure on a disgusting group of politicians.

As for the emergency number, I guess it's as difficult to do that while being gang raped as it is to dial it while being held at gun point. But it's better to have one than not have one.
Oh, sure, they absolutely should have and need an emergency number. I just fear that politicians will use something that should already exist as an attempt to placate. "Look, we're fixing things by giving you this thing you should have already had! And that won't protect you anyway because the cops don't intend to respond!"

Actually, I think at this point even if they did try that it would only increase the anger, which is a good thing.

We don't have to look to our past to find cultural problems now. There is a rape culture in this country too, and I hope our own citizens find some of that same passionate outrage. It's easy to judge other cultures, but much harder to work on our own. I hope some of the anger people feel when they hear of such terrible abuses transforms into action on behalf of ALL women.
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Old 01-13-2013, 08:22 PM
 
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Originally Posted by ParallelJJCat View Post
Oh, sure, they absolutely should have and need an emergency number. I just fear that politicians will use something that should already exist as an attempt to placate. "Look, we're fixing things by giving you this thing you should have already had! And that won't protect you anyway because the cops don't intend to respond!"

Actually, I think at this point even if they did try that it would only increase the anger, which is a good thing.

We don't have to look to our past to find cultural problems now. There is a rape culture in this country too, and I hope our own citizens find some of that same passionate outrage. It's easy to judge other cultures, but much harder to work on our own. I hope some of the anger people feel when they hear of such terrible abuses transforms into action on behalf of ALL women.
Very good point about politicians using the creation of an emergency number as a sign of action - I have no doubt that is exactly what they're doing. What I found extremely troubling was an article I read in the NYT (Nick Kristoff, I believe it was) who said that it took a whole week for the Prime Minister to even come out on TV and say anything. Say what you want about our elected officials, but Obama was right there when the CT shootings happened and empathized big time with the country. Granted, nothing much will happen with gun control, but in India there appeared to be no acknowledgement of any problem for one whole week!
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Old 01-18-2013, 01:11 PM
 
Location: Earth Wanderer, longing for the stars.
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Originally Posted by Howest2008 View Post
This really sounds like a society based problem to me if you have a young lady and her escort being attacked on a " public bus " does India have a working 911 emergency response system?....
But the police often don't respond, or respond when it's too late and their response is often that the woman should marry her rapist to alleviate her shame in the community. The courts say they are overcrowded and don't really want to take on such cases. The woman sometimes tries to just keep quiet about it so she will not be condemned by society.

There are lots of issues, but the first should be to start prosecuting these primitive throwbacks, and doing so harshly.

I think that a prior poster is correct, that in India you have modern cosmopolitan people thrown in with non educated backwater thugs. We, in this country, have our irrational religious fundamentalists who disavow science and believe the earth was created in 6000 years, but that is not harmful to most of us.

Just what would have happened had the woman and/or her male partner had a knife or gun and killed one of the thugs? Would those defending their lives be prosecuted and imprisoned? Is it self defense if rape is not a prosecutable crime?

I read of Western women visiting India on vacation being leered at and sometimes touched. Someone advised these women to wear dark glasses and not to make eye contact. I guess a woman should not visit this country unless she's in a group.

Last edited by goldengrain; 01-18-2013 at 01:22 PM..
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Old 01-19-2013, 06:35 PM
 
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This may be "off topic", but you bring up an excellent point about travelling to a foriegn country. Just rember gals, very careful.
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Old 01-21-2013, 12:11 PM
 
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Originally Posted by ParallelJJCat View Post
It's absolutely a societal issue more than anything. An emergency number won't help if the police turn their backs and refuse to pursue the criminals. It won't stop the cultural view of women either, which is where this behavior springs from.

And just logistically- how do you dial an emergency number when you're being gang-raped on a bus?

Not a small point!

Her father was on NPR today saying that the message she wanted him to pass on before she died was "we must not lose this fight."
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Old 01-21-2013, 12:12 PM
 
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Originally Posted by jasper12 View Post
This may be "off topic", but you bring up an excellent point about travelling to a foriegn country. Just rember gals, very careful.
This student got on a bus full of people with a man friend. How much more careful was she supposed to be? Should she have been armed with a taser or something?
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Old 01-29-2013, 02:36 PM
 
Location: Earth Wanderer, longing for the stars.
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Originally Posted by Cliffie View Post
This student got on a bus full of people with a man friend. How much more careful was she supposed to be? Should she have been armed with a taser or something?
Well, this was a reminder that if you (I) travel, go in a group. Make sure you've got each other's backs, don't wander off where you can be a crime victim.

You want people around you who are more prone to help, realizing that the attackers will try to beat them up, too, in India and that you cannot count on the police coming when called.

In cities, India has people who are cosmopolitan, citizens of the world. But there are people who are poor and illiterate from the villages, too. Remember that story of the Mumbai hotel attackers, how shocked they were, in bathrooms, to see running water and flushing toilets? They never knew such things existed.

On tv coverage, for a short time, we were 'treated' to a conversation I believe in the home of that young unfortunate Jewish family, between these backwoods dupes and their handlers. You can hear the gullibility of the murderous villagers and the shrewd manipulation (through religious means) of their handlers who were speaking from cover in a space of safety.

Last edited by goldengrain; 01-29-2013 at 03:01 PM..
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