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Old 12-30-2012, 06:40 AM
 
9,206 posts, read 9,283,907 times
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Quote:
But the vast majority of our prisoners aren't violent offenders. The war of drugs is what has filled our prison system past capacity. And because of this, we allow violent offenders who have actually killed back out because we don't have the beds for them.

Kill a fellow human for any other reason but self-defense, and that should be it. You're done. You've proven you're not fit to live in society. Get caught with some weed or even harder drugs? Some of those prisoners are serving longer sentences than people who bludgeoned someone to death. It's ridiculous and I say this as a person who hates drugs and has never touched one in my life (or alcohol)
I agree that we ought to reconsider the "war on drugs". Many years ago, I used to represent a few drug offenders in federal court. Sentencing guidelines dictated that virtually all of them were going to prison. Its not cheap to incarcerate someone in federal prison. A number of these folks could have been dealt with in the community at less cost to the taxpayer and they posed little danger to the public at large. But, public attitudes favored "the war on drugs" so the judges gleefully sent away these men and women for stiff prison sentences.

Its also true that if we released some of these people, we'd have more room for violent offenders.

I don't substantially disagree with you. I will say that I believe someone who drives drunk and kills someone is probably more "reformable" than someone who intentionally killed a victim. For this reason, I don't think those who kill while driving drunk should be serving life unless the circumstances are particularly horrific.
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Old 12-30-2012, 06:51 AM
 
1,617 posts, read 2,466,607 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sugarmaple View Post
Sadly, I am beginning to believe more and more that some people are simply born without a soul - without a conscience - and/if they have any bit of a conscience and they got into trouble before and nothing happened to them as far as punishment and/or accountability, then they learn quickly that they can beat anything or whatever they do is acceptable so they increase their risk, the danger and perhaps the thrill. And then clearly they have no conscience. I think this is a societal, criminal, moral and ethical quandry where all components must work together to stop it. ..................... There are no words to describe this - awful does not seem to suffice.


And yes, you are FINELY getting it...


Morning Phil -- I can assure you [smile] that I have always 'got it' -- as I have said in some of my other posts, I am a v/s of violent crime and the system completely failed me - completely failed me -- I have become very very involved in the periphery of 'politics' -- not politics as far as being in politics but actively working on committees and boards to make changes [whenever possible]; meeting w/legislators - participating on panels and forums - I am both frustrated with and 'annoyed' [at best] with the system, the consistent inconsistencies with prosecutors - sentencing guidelines, or lack thereof - and certainly the politics of the system.

We all know that when we see a young kid torturing an animal and enjoying it - that is more than a red flag to future serious issues - why then are we all waiting for that future serious issue to happen - why not prevent it?

Why are we hearing about so many of these horrible cases these days - torture, raping young girls - murdering for the hel* of it - because 'they can' and 'they do' without any and/or minimal repercussions and punishment.

As we continue to ask 'why', it appears to me that these offenders think 'why not'!
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Old 12-30-2012, 06:51 AM
 
16,437 posts, read 19,147,848 times
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We banned God from schools decades ago and we are reaping the consequences. We have several generations of people with no moral compass, no knowledge of right and wrong. There really are moral absolutes. Denial of God's laws leads inevitably to chaos.

"Sow the wind, reap the whirlwind..."
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Old 12-30-2012, 07:48 AM
 
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I don't know if that is the reason or at least the sole reason we are dealing with the horrors of today - yes, certainly there are clear moral absolutes just as there are ethical ones as well and those that society, as a whole says, this is wrong and unacceptable behavior.

I think there are plenty of families who continue to guide their children and their families with religious practices and beliefs regardless of the fact the prayer is no longer done in public schools.

I think there are simply too many people, children and adults, who just think they can do anything they want, and they do.

Many years ago, my mom got robbed at the cemetery when she was visiting my dad's grave -- cemeteries are, in my opinion, pretty holy ground and when I called the police to report it, the officer said as sad and tragic as it was [despicable as well], she was fortunate because she truly did not get hurt. They had 'reports' that several others had also been robbed at cemeteries but had been hurt because their heads had been pushed against/bashed against headstones. So, that made my mom lucky? I suppose in some ways she was fortunate -- but why not patrol a cemetery to catch them if there were numerous reports?

I planted a pinwheel next to my daughter's grave because she loved them - it had been taken. I rationalized to myself [had to] because I was so upset to see it missing, that perhaps another child who was at the cemetery took it to play with it --

Clearly, if an offender has no respect for himself/herself, he/she has no respect for anyone else, living or dead, egregious crimes like burning a woman sitting on a park bench, raping a 4 year old, killing their parents, etc. will continue and I am not so sure you can teach someone the value of self-worth or self-respect once they are say, in their teens if they have not learned it earlier.

Should someone be helped when the signs begin when they are young/little, absolutely! I believe we have a responsibility to do so; and when that does not work/help and they commit a horrible crime when they are young adults/adults, should they be incarcerated appropriately, absolutely!
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Old 12-30-2012, 10:57 AM
 
2,873 posts, read 4,768,111 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markg91359 View Post
I agree that we ought to reconsider the "war on drugs". Many years ago, I used to represent a few drug offenders in federal court. Sentencing guidelines dictated that virtually all of them were going to prison. Its not cheap to incarcerate someone in federal prison. A number of these folks could have been dealt with in the community at less cost to the taxpayer and they posed little danger to the public at large. But, public attitudes favored "the war on drugs" so the judges gleefully sent away these men and women for stiff prison sentences.

Its also true that if we released some of these people, we'd have more room for violent offenders.

I don't substantially disagree with you. I will say that I believe someone who drives drunk and kills someone is probably more "reformable" than someone who intentionally killed a victim. For this reason, I don't think those who kill while driving drunk should be serving life unless the circumstances are particularly horrific.
I'm honestly not worried about reform. Whether or not the person is likely to repeat their crime matters less to me than the fact that they made a choice that resulted in death. Driving drunk is a choice and to me, making that choice means you are unfit to live in society. If you are incapable of worrying about your fellow humans, you've lost your place.

The war on drugs was very much politically motivated. Almost 73% of our prison population is serving time for non-violent offenses and has no history of violence. So releasing them wouldn't just help the problem, it would solve it entirely and leave us plenty of room to keep violent offenders indefinitely. And if the prison system was changed so that violent offenders carried a life sentence, there would no endless attempts at appeals and parole, which is one of the big reasons it costs so much to house prisoners.
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Old 12-30-2012, 12:18 PM
 
Location: US
5,144 posts, read 10,861,133 times
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I have to wonder how much this has actually increased or the coverage has. Violence on L.A.'s homeless is nothing too new. Being down at venice beach at night the friendly street people that I would get food sometimes told me to not hang out down there after dark because of the violence and gang activity in the 90s.

Still sad. I don't think anyone who kills at random is mentally healthy. They should of never shut down the insane asylums like they did. I think it caused a lot of these modern issues. The homeless one for sure.
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Old 12-30-2012, 01:06 PM
 
7,112 posts, read 9,354,537 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NJ Brazen_3133 View Post
Woman set on fire in LA as she sleeps on bench - Yahoo! News

Despicable, just wrong, was this supposed to be some gang initiation? Who can we blame this one on the system? I just cannot see how a person with no motive, or external factor pushing him can do this. Can you be born this bad?

No, but you have to believe you will get some sort of reward for being the biggest piece of filth out there. It's a flaw in the human species -- if you have all eyes on you, you think you're important for that moment, so matter what revolting thing you did to get everyone's attention. Worse, people will really think someone like this is more interesting for having set fire to a stranger.
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Old 12-30-2012, 02:55 PM
 
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Cliffie, sadly enough, I think you may be right -- I think there will be some people who will think someone like this is interesting for setting a fire on a stranger -- with more of the emphasis on the person who set the fire than the victim and the victim's family.
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Old 12-30-2012, 04:05 PM
 
Location: Dublin, CA
3,813 posts, read 3,659,981 times
Reputation: 3967
Quote:
Originally Posted by sugarmaple View Post

And yes, you are FINELY getting it...


Morning Phil -- I can assure you [smile] that I have always 'got it' -- as I have said in some of my other posts, I am a v/s of violent crime and the system completely failed me - completely failed me -- I have become very very involved in the periphery of 'politics' -- not politics as far as being in politics but actively working on committees and boards to make changes [whenever possible]; meeting w/legislators - participating on panels and forums - I am both frustrated with and 'annoyed' [at best] with the system, the consistent inconsistencies with prosecutors - sentencing guidelines, or lack thereof - and certainly the politics of the system.

We all know that when we see a young kid torturing an animal and enjoying it - that is more than a red flag to future serious issues - why then are we all waiting for that future serious issue to happen - why not prevent it?

Why are we hearing about so many of these horrible cases these days - torture, raping young girls - murdering for the hel* of it - because 'they can' and 'they do' without any and/or minimal repercussions and punishment.

As we continue to ask 'why', it appears to me that these offenders think 'why not'!
Personally, I think as a society people are too wrapped up into "why." As a psychological state, people want MOTIVE. They want to know why someone did "X," did "Y," and did "Z." However, there may not be a reason as to "why." There maybe, "just because." That is right, "just because."

There are people in this world who commit crimes, "just because." Not for monetary gain, sexual fantasy, et al. However, just because I want too and I can. THESE types of crimes are very difficult for people to "wrap their heads around." They are either "nuts" or something they can't understand. MANY people who commit crimes are as sane as you and them. Moreover, they want nothing from the crimes they commit.

I've been accused, several times, on this forum of being "insensitive" and alot of other things, because I do not "gasp, shake, and shudder" at crime "X." I've seen it ALL before. And the crimes which people are freaking out about, happen every day, all day, all across the United States and World.

Yes, I see them and you don't. I understand that. Yet, why is it so difficult for people to believe their fellow man has absolutely no emotions, no caring, et al about them and their families? And if possible, would kill, maim, and abuse them, "just because?" No psychological issues. NONE. Just because? It happens, everyday, all day, all across the world and people really should wake up and see it.

If they cannot handle reality, that is their issue. Not mine.
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Old 12-30-2012, 04:25 PM
 
1,617 posts, read 2,466,607 times
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I believe in one of my last postings, I commented: "As we continue to ask 'why', it appears to me that these offenders think 'why not'!"

No question, most of us do not think that way; no matter how angry we may be at someone, or not, no matter how resentful we might feel about something, or not - we simply would not harm someone else, just because.

The reality is that there are those who do.
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