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Old 01-04-2013, 11:10 PM
 
Location: Dublin, CA
3,813 posts, read 3,661,019 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ParallelJJCat View Post
Hate is an emotion. What you described in your previous post was psychopathy, which is a lack of the ability to feel empathy. Psychopaths don't 'hate' others. In fact, most psychopaths are rarely violent. There has been considerable research into the causes of it, and while there is no definitive answer yet, it does seem to have biological or genetic underpinnings.

That said, I agree with you for the most part. I think much violence is done simply out of hate or lack of caring for others. Not so much an inability to empathize and understood the pain they are inflicting, but rather a complete disregard for it. You can well understand that you are hurting another person who is just as 'real' as you are...and still not care.

The first instinct when reading about a violent crime is always to wonder WHY. But I do notice this question is asked more often if the offender is white or female. If a white woman kills her children, everyone speculates as to 'why'...and often in ways that take away her responsibility for her action. When a man shakes his child to death, there's no speculation that he was mentally ill...he's just a monster.

I hear often things like 'there are no such things as bad people, just bad actions." I think there are bad people. I think there are EVIL people. But there are ALSO people who have severe mental illness. Some of who commit violent crimes (and many, many more who don't.) Our mental health system has completely failed at keeping people with mental illness who are a danger off the streets. This is important to acknowledge but while we can't stop evil people from hurting others, we CAN change things so that people exhibiting signs of mental illness get real help (and if they can't be helped, aren't simply left to wander.).
Your points are very well taken and I agree with you, which is my point: There is just pure evil in this world. People commit crimes for a variety of reason. Often those reasons are "just because." Many people do not need a reason to murder. They just enjoy. Its "them." However, for the general person, they just cannot handle this. There MUST be a reason someone kills, robs, or rapes. The thought to them, someone may commit these crimes because they enjoy it, etc appals and sickens them.

In fact, some of the most prolific killers and criminals who have gotten away with the crimes, have done so because they just simply enjoy it.

There are just some truly sick and truly normal persons in this world.
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Old 01-05-2013, 12:57 PM
 
275 posts, read 348,430 times
Reputation: 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by phonelady61 View Post
Yep evil abounds everywhere and anywhere and it is disgusting what happened to this lady and people are growing more evil by the day . I will pray for her and those that did that for their eternal soul .
I tell u what's become so evil is the state of Connecticut!
geezus, it's creepy & dangerous there...
the cops won't enforce basic laws to keep the public safe...people get badly injured due to reckless drivers, dogs
get attacked when being taken for walks cuz irresponsible dog owners allow dogs like German Shepherds, Pitbulls, Chows & Rottweilers to run loose!
creepy..a lady in Farmington had her little chihuau killed when 2 roaming Pitbulls got out of their yards & ran into
her house & killed her little dog!
How traumatic that must have been for that lady!
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Old 01-05-2013, 10:14 PM
 
2,873 posts, read 4,769,929 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil306 View Post
Your points are very well taken and I agree with you, which is my point: There is just pure evil in this world. People commit crimes for a variety of reason. Often those reasons are "just because." Many people do not need a reason to murder. They just enjoy. Its "them." However, for the general person, they just cannot handle this. There MUST be a reason someone kills, robs, or rapes. The thought to them, someone may commit these crimes because they enjoy it, etc appals and sickens them.

In fact, some of the most prolific killers and criminals who have gotten away with the crimes, have done so because they just simply enjoy it.

There are just some truly sick and truly normal persons in this world.
Indeed. I actually find it upsetting when people say things like "there are no bad people, only bad actions." By refusing to acknowledge that some people are just plain bad, we create a culture in which any crime is forgivable and forgiveness itself is treated as a mandate. To forgive is treated as a necessity to 'heal' from violent crime, to the point where completely uninvolved person will writer letters of forgiveness to serial killers. It's creepy and really just plain weird, and again I think it creates a culture where even the most heinous criminal is treated as just as misguided soul.
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Old 01-06-2013, 07:10 AM
 
9,216 posts, read 9,289,216 times
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Quote:
Indeed. I actually find it upsetting when people say things like "there are no bad people, only bad actions." By refusing to acknowledge that some people are just plain bad, we create a culture in which any crime is forgivable and forgiveness itself is treated as a mandate. To forgive is treated as a necessity to 'heal' from violent crime, to the point where completely uninvolved person will writer letters of forgiveness to serial killers. It's creepy and really just plain weird, and again I think it creates a culture where even the most heinous criminal is treated as just as misguided soul.
I'm not naive enough to think there are not bad, unreformable, vicious, and "evil" (for want of a better word) people out there. It is the job of the system to identify these people when they commit violent crimes and prevent them from harming others.

At the same time, I worry about a black/white attitude that attempts to break people down between "good and evil". Its a pretty simplistic way to view life. All of us grow up in a different family. All of us experience different levels of economic prosperity or deprivation. Some of us grow up without fathers and mothers in our home. All of us are exposed to different levels of violence in our lives. Some of us are born with mental conditions that in 2013 are still poorly understood by physicians, psychiatrists, and psychologists. Finally, the problem of drug and alcohol addiction spills over into most if not all crimes that are committed.

I love to quote Anatole France who stated that "the law in its majestic equality, prohibits both the rich and the poor from sleeping under bridges".

Just and decent societies don't simply lock all criminal offenders in jail and throw the key away. Some people can be changed and the problem with the "good/evil" dichotomy is that it may cause us to overlook opportunities to reform some offenders who may become contributing members of society. I've personally observed several instances of people in this category. One man, I know served a prison sentence for bank robbery and since his release has worked at responsible jobs and paid thousands of dollars in taxes. He eventually was able to get this conviction expunged from his record. Another individual that I know, served a term in prison after he was involved in a fight in a bar and after his release, worked honestly and diligently as a construction worker until he died of a heart attack at age 65. I could actually go on and on. I know a fair number of people in this category.

Reforming such people is not only possible, but if done will work to the advantage of all of us in society when incarceration costs $50,000 a year and upwards per offender.
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Old 01-06-2013, 01:01 PM
 
3,522 posts, read 3,928,500 times
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Thoughts are relative.
Actions are certain.

If we spill over into condemning thoughts, as a way of preventing undesirable actions, then we open up a can of worms.

Also, yeah, this is horrible.
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Old 01-06-2013, 01:05 PM
 
2,873 posts, read 4,769,929 times
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^ (replying to the entire above post)

In an earlier post I had already stated that mental illness must be accounted for and not dismissed, and that dismissing it removes incentive to fix our tragically broken care for those who with mental illness.

I also was not speaking of ALL people who commit crime. Not all crimes are equal. A man who robs a bank is not the same as a man who rapes and strangles women. There are criminals who can be rehabilitated and offered a second, productive chance.

With that said, I stand by my opinion that some criminals are of a different nature. If a man ties, burns, and kills someone, there is nothing in their past that could excuse that. There is nothing 'good enough' to justify murder committed for the pleasure of watching someone die.

I have a family member who raped a disabled woman. He and his friends found her walking down the side of the road after wandering away from her group home. They took her into the woods and gang-raped her. They were in the late teens. He was sent to jail for far too short a time (then again, I think he should have never have been released.)

The man is bad. He's evil. Abuse as a child, a hard life, peer pressure....none of that justifies his actions.
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Old 02-11-2013, 10:46 AM
 
275 posts, read 348,430 times
Reputation: 117
Cool We agree, stop making a big deal about MaryJane, instead of Murder or Violence

Quote:
Originally Posted by ParallelJJCat View Post
But the vast majority of our prisoners aren't violent offenders. The war of drugs is what has filled our prison system past capacity. And because of this, we allow violent offenders who have actually killed back out because we don't have the beds for them.

Kill a fellow human for any other reason but self-defense, and that should be it. You're done. You've proven you're not fit to live in society. Get caught with some weed or even harder drugs? Some of those prisoners are serving longer sentences than people who bludgeoned someone to death. It's ridiculous and I say this as a person who hates drugs and has never touched one in my life (or alcohol)
While many people get violent after drinking alcohol,
few do so after smoking grass.
Yet alcohol is very legal & marijuana is not!
Makes no sense. Alcohol causes horrible liver problems
if ingested constantly, but pot actually helps cancer
patients.
For God's sake, if Obama was a pothead as a teenager,
why has he not decriminalized marijuana yet, instead of making being an illegal alien legal?
Makes no sense to me.
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Old 02-13-2013, 06:42 PM
 
7,112 posts, read 9,357,555 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil306 View Post
Explain to me the psychological issue? What is it? Define it? What therapy, medication, et al do we use to treat it?

I'm waiting? YOU tell me the psychological issue for a person like this. Let me give you a hint: There ISNT one. It doesn't exist. Sorry it doesn't fit in your little shoebox of a world. However, like it or not, there are people in this world who hate people, "just because." They are as sane as you are and everyone else walking down the street

You cannot diagnose them and you can't "fix" them. Its they way they are.

And your post is exactly my point: YOU, nor others, can accept this. You cannot get your head around people like this so, there must be some sort of "issue" with them. When there is not.

I don't live in a little shoebox of a world. There are a lot of possible diagnoses and reasons for violence, and some lucky dogs have more than one of them. Someone born with Fetal Alcohol Syndrome may never be able to understand right and wrong -- their brains are too damaged before they ever become air breathers. Some people on the autism spectrum have zero ability to feel empathy for others and see them only as objects to be manipulated -- autism at least is very treatable and they can usually improve, or even be totally cured of their problems. Some people are simply raised not to believe in right and wrong, or to believe in a really lousy version of it -- if I get what I want, that's right; if you try to stop me, that's wrong. That sort of thinking. Some have their sense of right and wrong beaten out of them by life. Some people are psychotic and believe, for instance, that the person they are killing is a robot sent by the CIA to steal their thoughts.

NOBODY hates anyone else "just because." Do you? Does anyone you know? No, they always have a reason, even if it's a terrible one. Hate is a reaction to being badly hurt or terrified by someone or something. Hate is a VERY powerful emotion. You don't feel it "just because."

This situation? This sounds like kids trying to impress each other with their daring and willingness to do any crazy thing in order to look like big shots in each other's eyes. It's the same reason you get events like gang rape, drive-by shootings and some terrorist acts. There's often no hate involved, especially if they are going after a stranger. They are just stupids who never thought that hey, maybe this is a person with feelings and rights and la de da. She looked like someone they could kill and nobody would miss, so why not use her so I never get picked on again by my buddies at the pool hall.

And as the old joke says, it only takes 1 therapist to change a light bulb, but the lightbulb has to want to change. These guys are now going to put every ounce of energy into justifying, minimizing, denying or blaming someone else for what they did. They are likely never to be safe in public again, but that's OK -- they're going to be locked up until they're little old felons.
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Old 02-18-2013, 03:25 PM
 
7,112 posts, read 9,357,555 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NLVgal View Post
I can't remember where I heard this quote, but it's a good one: "Some people just want to watch the world burn".

That's for sure. The police are saying they suspect mental illness in this case, but who knows what this guy was thinking.
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Old 05-25-2013, 04:59 PM
 
1,338 posts, read 1,737,510 times
Reputation: 1008
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bideshi View Post
We banned God from schools decades ago and we are reaping the consequences. We have several generations of people with no moral compass, no knowledge of right and wrong. There really are moral absolutes. Denial of God's laws leads inevitably to chaos.

"Sow the wind, reap the whirlwind..."
I'm an atheist and would never even think about setting another human being (not even an animal) on fire. What does believing or not believing in god has to do with basic empathy and feelings towards others?

People without empathy are psychopaths.

In fact, I've heard of several overly religious priests that are child molestors. It has nothing to do with religion. There are evil people everywhere.
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