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Old 01-06-2013, 03:43 PM
 
2,873 posts, read 4,769,088 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sugarmaple View Post
I think society can contribute to the problem, especially by not reporting, not helping a victim; I think the basic problem is the rapist, he is the offender and he needs to be accountable.

What possible poor choice would it be when an 84 year old woman is in her own home- minding her business - her home gets broken into and the offender sexually assaults her? What could see have done differently to avoid that from happening? Nothing, I reckon.

And this sort of thing (the blame game) is exactly why victims don't report. Imagine you've just been raped. Do you want to get on the stand and be asked what you were wearing? How often you've had sex in the past? Was any of that sex, you know, kinky? How much did you drink? How well did you know the guy? Oh, that much and only that long? Well, you were just asking for it, weren't you?

 
Old 01-06-2013, 03:58 PM
 
Location: Soldotna
2,268 posts, read 1,806,733 times
Reputation: 1067
Quote:
Originally Posted by ParallelJJCat View Post
You said my friend was responsible for her rape because 'she thought she was safe in her neighborhood? Come on!'

So my question is was my friend just not meant to leave the house? Ever? She should have expected rape in a neighborhood known for its safety at mid-morning on a spring day?

You said my other friend was responsible for her rape 'because she trusted an unknown guy' Expect he wasn't unknown, and she wasn't a kid dating for popularity. He wasn't a jerk and hadn't been abusive before that point.

There is always a different choice. Another poster just brought up an old woman in her own home. Could she avoid being raped? Well, yes, probably. She could have bought a security system. She could have moved to a different neighborhood. She could have employed two guards to watch over her (but not male, because then it would be her fault if they raped her.)

So how dumb does the choice need to be before the woman becomes responsible for another person's actions? Is not having a security system dumb enough to make it her fault? Living alone? Leaving the house?

Breathing?
Except for that one reply all my posts have concerned the girl in the OP.

But to answer your questions...

I've already said in an earlier post that there is a point at which no one could have done anything more.

But that's rarely the case.

Your friend assumed she was safe in her neighborhood. Why would a women assume she is safe???

Seriously, how out of touch are people?

As to the friend dating the guy. I'm sorry but people don't just come out of no where with behavior. People always show their true colors if you pay attention.

Ever notice it is always women complaining about how their guy changed? No they didn't. The woman just saw what she wanted...

You never hear men complain about this. I wonder why.

Don't blame naivete and being overly trusting on men. The fact that Ted Bundy could charm so many women clearly shows that there is a problem among women.

Perhaps it is time to address it?

You want to know what level is too dumb? The level where you pay for making the choice.
 
Old 01-06-2013, 04:07 PM
 
18,852 posts, read 31,742,630 times
Reputation: 26119
Again, not blaming the victim. But, it is hardly a comparison between an 84 year being raped in her bedroom, and a teenage girl who goes out and gets drunk at a party.

Either way, Rape is a despicable act of violence against women.

This is a clear cut case....with many layers....the folks who watched, and did not call authorities or intervene.
The perpetrators, who did this act.

And the ones who filmed it and posted it on the Internet....at least charge them with child pornography. She is underage.
 
Old 01-06-2013, 04:21 PM
 
Location: Soldotna
2,268 posts, read 1,806,733 times
Reputation: 1067
Listen...

I understand what you are trying to say.

Here is where you are wrong.

1) You can't abdicate responsibility. Do bad things happen that are out of your control? Sure, but many times those things were not out of your control.

2) You can't dictate behavior. My mother never spoke to me about not raping women. I still never did it. Its absolutely evil to do so. But rapists will rape like lions will eat zebras. Its what they do. How can you stop them? You can't. You have to protect yourself.

3) You can't dictate thoughts. You keep trying to use appeals to emotion to sway my thought process. You aren't going to. Why? Because your arguments are flawed and filled with logical fallacies. My views come from my experiences with violent crime. You aren't going to change my mind.

4) Clearly women don't think like men but most predators are men. You can't continue to think as you do. You have to think like the predators to protect yourself. If you keep telling yourself you should be able to be safe anywhere and anytime you want then you will just continue fooling yourself. Just because we live in cities and have laws doesn't mean it's not the jungle. Protect yourself.

5) Women aren't the only victims of violent crime... That's all I will say about that.
 
Old 01-06-2013, 04:42 PM
 
2,873 posts, read 4,769,088 times
Reputation: 4292
Quote:
Originally Posted by AnonymouseX View Post
Listen...

I understand what you are trying to say.

Here is where you are wrong.

1) You can't abdicate responsibility. Do bad things happen that are out of your control? Sure, but many times those things were not out of your control.

2) You can't dictate behavior. My mother never spoke to me about not raping women. I still never did it. Its absolutely evil to do so. But rapists will rape like lions will eat zebras. Its what they do. How can you stop them? You can't. You have to protect yourself.

3) You can't dictate thoughts. You keep trying to use appeals to emotion to sway my thought process. You aren't going to. Why? Because your arguments are flawed and filled with logical fallacies. My views come from my experiences with violent crime. You aren't going to change my mind.

4) Clearly women don't think like men but most predators are men. You can't continue to think as you do. You have to think like the predators to protect yourself. If you keep telling yourself you should be able to be safe anywhere and anytime you want then you will just continue fooling yourself. Just because we live in cities and have laws doesn't mean it's not the jungle. Protect yourself.

5) Women aren't the only victims of violent crime... That's all I will say about that.
You are repeatedly ignoring that in two cases of women I know, they were not engaged in 'risky' behavior.

Yet look at how you responded. You tried to find a make to make it their fault...you kept insisting they had broken the nebulous 'rules' without knowing the situation. You assumed they were in a bad neighborhood, that it was night, that she went home with a stranger. None of which were true.

This is rape culture in action.

The idea that we can't prevent men from raping means all responsibility at all times is on women. Can we prevent all men from raping? Of course not. But we can fight the culture that allows a pack of teenage boys to view rape as a funny, exciting experience. Your mother should have talked to you about rape, women, and consent. We can stop the badgering of rape survivors on the stand so that they are more willing to come forward so that rape can actually be punished. We can stop a newspaper from reporting that 12 year old girl who was gang-raped wore 'clothes more suitable for a woman.'

Everyone is horrified that a woman in India was gang-raped and that the current culture there allows many rapes to go unpunished. Yet here in our country we have a culture much the same, just on a slightly lesser scale. We can't stop all men from raping. But we can make it harder to get away with, easier to punish, and something our sons are actually taught isn't 'ha ha' funny. We can teach our teen girls they shouldn't get drunk to passing out, and teach our teen boys they shouldn't rape passed out teen girls.
 
Old 01-06-2013, 04:42 PM
 
10,357 posts, read 7,984,823 times
Reputation: 4547
Quote:
Originally Posted by ParallelJJCat View Post
Anonymous is at their best when they're tracking down people who otherwise would not have been charged at all. As when some teen boy posted pictures of himself abusing a cat on youtube. Without Anonymous's tracking down his exact location, the case would never have been charged.


But in this situation, where the case is being charged and the victim has come forward...it does stand to hinder more than help, I think.
Why would it hinder?

There was a thread on the Steubenville rape in the Politics section of CD forums and it was shut down. To me that is just another example of how people don't want to recognize that rape is a political issue --it is about power and the culture we live in. We can talk about gun crime all we want in the Politics section, but mention rape and it gets deleted or locked. Of course, there's a thread called "can women rape men" that is being allowed to stay on the Politics forum. How sexist can you get !!!!
 
Old 01-06-2013, 05:23 PM
 
18,852 posts, read 31,742,630 times
Reputation: 26119
Rape is a huge political issue! And the double standards applied to rapists. And victims.

But, as much as I despise rapists, I don't think Nancy Grace has helped the cause much, by her vigilante stance, and trying men on her tv show. I believe she has actually hurt the cause, by her rabid stance that all men accused of Rape are rapists.
 
Old 01-06-2013, 05:37 PM
 
Location: Soldotna
2,268 posts, read 1,806,733 times
Reputation: 1067
Quote:
Originally Posted by ParallelJJCat View Post
You are repeatedly ignoring that in two cases of women I know, they were not engaged in 'risky' behavior.

Yet look at how you responded. You tried to find a make to make it their fault...you kept insisting they had broken the nebulous 'rules' without knowing the situation. You assumed they were in a bad neighborhood, that it was night, that she went home with a stranger. None of which were true.

This is rape culture in action.

The idea that we can't prevent men from raping means all responsibility at all times is on women. Can we prevent all men from raping? Of course not. But we can fight the culture that allows a pack of teenage boys to view rape as a funny, exciting experience. Your mother should have talked to you about rape, women, and consent. We can stop the badgering of rape survivors on the stand so that they are more willing to come forward so that rape can actually be punished. We can stop a newspaper from reporting that 12 year old girl who was gang-raped wore 'clothes more suitable for a woman.'

Everyone is horrified that a woman in India was gang-raped and that the current culture there allows many rapes to go unpunished. Yet here in our country we have a culture much the same, just on a slightly lesser scale. We can't stop all men from raping. But we can make it harder to get away with, easier to punish, and something our sons are actually taught isn't 'ha ha' funny. We can teach our teen girls they shouldn't get drunk to passing out, and teach our teen boys they shouldn't rape passed out teen girls.
Culture of rape?

Lol...

I only see a culture of victim hood.

You can do all those things but you won't.

Why? Because no one wants to be responsible.

You can't force parents to do anything.

You can't ban badgering witnesses. All people have a right to question their accusers.

Most boys don't view rape as funny.

Women HAVE to protect themselves. If they don't then what do you want to happen and who do you blame for them not doing it.

When do people take responsibility for themselves?

No one is responsible for you. No one has to protect you. No one has to do anything. You have to do it yourself...

What you've suggested has been fought for since I was young that I know of. Maybe longer. What has changed? Not a damn thing...

You want a feel good solution and everyone to go along with it. Its not going to happen.

Culture of rape indeed...
 
Old 01-06-2013, 05:47 PM
 
10,357 posts, read 7,984,823 times
Reputation: 4547
Quote:
Originally Posted by AnonymouseX View Post
Culture of rape?

Lol...

I only see a culture of victim hood.

You can do all those things but you won't.

Why? Because no one wants to be responsible.

When do people take responsibility for themselves?

No one is responsible for you. No one has to protect you. No one has to do anything. You have to do it yourself...

Culture of rape indeed...
Well believe it or not, we do have laws in this country that protect us from assault, murder, rape. "No one has to protect you." --- yes, they do. The law protects our rights to bodily safety, and if we are violated the law will be enforced and perpetrators will be prosecuted and jailed. You can't do all that by yourself. That is why we have a legal and law enforcement system.
 
Old 01-06-2013, 06:06 PM
 
Location: Soldotna
2,268 posts, read 1,806,733 times
Reputation: 1067
Quote:
Originally Posted by ellemint View Post
Well believe it or not, we do have laws in this country that protect us from assault, murder, rape. "No one has to protect you." --- yes, they do. The law protects our rights to bodily safety, and if we are violated the law will be enforced and perpetrators will be prosecuted and jailed. You can't do all that by yourself. That is why we have a legal and law enforcement system.
Lolol!!!

Nope.

Law enforcement doesn't have to protect you.

I can't believe I have to pull this case out again.

Look up Warren vs DC.

Police have no duty to protect an individual. They are here to protect society...

Your views are why people are still victims...

Tell me something dear. How well did the laws and police protect your friends or the girl in the OP?

How well???
.....

Exactly.

Foolishness like this results in victims...

Protect your damn self victim. This woman did. She DIDN'T get raped.

http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/story?id=125846&page=1

She TOOK responsibility and she handed her attacker his ***. She protected herself.

That's how you stop rape.
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