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Old 04-26-2013, 09:12 AM
 
Location: Swiftwater, PA
14,431 posts, read 11,744,799 times
Reputation: 10822

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Quote:
Originally Posted by CarolinaWoman View Post
I realized today ... the DT had NO rebuttal witnesses to Dr. Horn's testimony ... he was on the stand on Day 3 and they never presented a blood spatter expert nor another pathologist to rebut Dr. Horn. That is strange unless they couldn't find anyone to rebut the testimony.

A friend sent me the autopsy photos and I cannot post them here they are so gruesome, they made me ill looking at them. Arais mutilated Travis Alexander. These are the photos Dr. Horn used today. After seeing these pictures, Arias truly deserves the death penalty.
This is probably the only point that I do agree with Jodi – I also think that she shot him first. However; I think she brought the stolen gun with her and planed his demise. Dr. Horn feels that she stabbed him first.

From hunting; I have watched deer die that have had their brains removed or turned to jelly. Some will drop in their tracks and never move. Some will have convolutions or random muscle jerks. That is with weapons considerably more powerful than the .25 that shot Travis.

I think that Jodi planned this. I think that she shot him first and that Travis was still moving (having convolutions) after being shot. I think the gun either jamed or did not have the magazine - I think she would have shot more than once; if she could have. I think that, because Jodi went to great links to avoid being connected to this murder, that Jodi stabbed him until his corpus stopped moving – or until she was confident that he was dead. She did not want him to survive and testify against her.

Travis was into kick-boxing and was larger and stronger than Jodi. Had he been cut first; there is a good chance that he could have still inflicted damage to Jodi or protected himself. The shot first to the head explains why he could not defend against Jodi's knife attack.

 
Old 04-26-2013, 09:23 AM
 
Location: Cali
3,904 posts, read 6,202,834 times
Reputation: 2224
Quote:
Originally Posted by trinity1111 View Post
I, for one, think it's going to be very interesting reading when some jurors write their books after this trial is done. It may not stop at jurors, maybe family members will write about their struggle.
And, depending on the verdict.....Jodi's book will be released. Heck, she'll probably write a series of books. Of course they'll all be fiction, even the autobiography.....
I would not be a bit surprised. Jodi Arias has become a household name.
 
Old 04-26-2013, 09:35 AM
 
1,143 posts, read 1,019,075 times
Reputation: 1466
Quote:
Originally Posted by fisheye View Post
This is probably the only point that I do agree with Jodi I also think that she shot him first. However; I think she brought the stolen gun with her and planed his demise. Dr. Horn feels that she stabbed him first.

From hunting; I have watched deer die that have had their brains removed or turned to jelly. Some will drop in their tracks and never move. Some will have convolutions or random muscle jerks. That is with weapons considerably more powerful than the .25 that shot Travis.

I think that Jodi planned this. I think that she shot him first and that Travis was still moving (having convolutions) after being shot. I think the gun either jamed or did not have the magazine - I think she would have shot more than once; if she could have. I think that, because Jodi went to great links to avoid being connected to this murder, that Jodi stabbed him until his corpus stopped moving or until she was confident that he was dead. She did not want him to survive and testify against her.

Travis was into kick-boxing and was larger and stronger than Jodi. Had he been cut first; there is a good chance that he could have still inflicted damage to Jodi or protected himself. The shot first to the head explains why he could not defend against Jodi's knife attack.

That's a very logical, reasonable explanation. You may have nailed it.
Not being able to produce the gun, along a ballistic match with the grandpa's stolen gun, the bullet, the casing, may have severely hurt Juan's 1st degree charge.

Jodi was smart to hold out on bringing forth that piece of evidence. I think she got the juror's heads spinning. Apparently one juror was attempting to numb his mind. I wonder if that's Juror number 8. Willmont was smiling when they came out of chambers when he got dismissed.
 
Old 04-26-2013, 10:42 AM
 
Location: Swiftwater, PA
14,431 posts, read 11,744,799 times
Reputation: 10822
Quote:
Originally Posted by trinity1111 View Post
That's a very logical, reasonable explanation. You may have nailed it.
Not being able to produce the gun, along a ballistic match with the grandpa's stolen gun, the bullet, the casing, may have severely hurt Juan's 1st degree charge.

Jodi was smart to hold out on bringing forth that piece of evidence. I think she got the juror's heads spinning. Apparently one juror was attempting to numb his mind. I wonder if that's Juror number 8. Willmont was smiling when they came out of chambers when he got dismissed.
Thanks trinity1111,

From my hunting experience; I have watched a large, healthy, buck run five hundred yards after his heart was removed. Some deer will drop in their tracks and some give no obvious reaction to fatal heart wounds until they loose consciousness.

While it is possible that Jodi stabbed Travis in the heart; the odds are that she did not hit her mark the very first try. Even if she did; there would have been a chance that Travis could have fought back or tried to protect himself for a few seconds.

While Dr. Horn testified about the bullet tumbling; the .25 does not have a lot of energy. The bleeding could have been delayed. Possibly the bleeding was delayed long enough for Travis to be stabbed in the heart? That could have reduced the blood pressure to the head wound? The shell casing could have been kicked (by accident) on the blood after the stab wounds.

Travis was not drugged or incapacitated. This is the only scenario that makes any sense to me.
 
Old 04-26-2013, 10:53 AM
 
1,257 posts, read 4,065,377 times
Reputation: 1018
Quote:
Originally Posted by fisheye View Post
This is probably the only point that I do agree with Jodi – I also think that she shot him first. However; I think she brought the stolen gun with her and planed his demise. Dr. Horn feels that she stabbed him first.

From hunting; I have watched deer die that have had their brains removed or turned to jelly. Some will drop in their tracks and never move. Some will have convolutions or random muscle jerks. That is with weapons considerably more powerful than the .25 that shot Travis.

I think that Jodi planned this. I think that she shot him first and that Travis was still moving (having convolutions) after being shot. I think the gun either jamed or did not have the magazine - I think she would have shot more than once; if she could have. I think that, because Jodi went to great links to avoid being connected to this murder, that Jodi stabbed him until his corpus stopped moving – or until she was confident that he was dead. She did not want him to survive and testify against her.

Travis was into kick-boxing and was larger and stronger than Jodi. Had he been cut first; there is a good chance that he could have still inflicted damage to Jodi or protected himself. The shot first to the head explains why he could not defend against Jodi's knife attack.
I think you are right. Both of my friends, a facial trauma surgeon and a neuron trauma surgeon, strongly agree that that kind of gunshot wound couldn't have dropped him instantly. It may weaken him so much that he can't defend himself effectively against Jodi Arias. There are many defensive wounds on Travis.
In addition, the theory that the knife was used first helps the defense theory that the murder is not premeditated. If it is premeditated, Jodi Arias should have used gun first. I guess this is why they didn't rebut Dr. Horn.
 
Old 04-26-2013, 10:58 AM
 
1,143 posts, read 1,019,075 times
Reputation: 1466
Quote:
Originally Posted by fisheye View Post
Thanks trinity1111,

From my hunting experience; I have watched a large, healthy, buck run five hundred yards after his heart was removed. Some deer will drop in their tracks and some give no obvious reaction to fatal heart wounds until they loose consciousness.

While it is possible that Jodi stabbed Travis in the heart; the odds are that she did not hit her mark the very first try. Even if she did; there would have been a chance that Travis could have fought back or tried to protect himself for a few seconds.

While Dr. Horn testified about the bullet tumbling; the .25 does not have a lot of energy. The bleeding could have been delayed. Possibly the bleeding was delayed long enough for Travis to be stabbed in the heart? That could have reduced the blood pressure to the head wound? The shell casing could have been kicked (by accident) on the blood after the stab wounds.

Travis was not drugged or incapacitated. This is the only scenario that makes any sense to me.
These questions may be gruesome for some:

What kind of force and motion would it take to execute the throat wound? My understanding was that he was practically decapitated. Would a kitchen knife be suffice, does it need to be surrogated knife?
Could the same knife then match those type of stab wounds? Could an amateur do it easily? In movies it looks simple, but a hunter knows the reality of cutting flesh.
 
Old 04-26-2013, 11:10 AM
 
9,916 posts, read 9,311,269 times
Reputation: 8058
Quote:
Originally Posted by trinity1111 View Post
These questions may be gruesome for some:

What kind of force and motion would it take to execute the throat wound? My understanding was that he was practically decapitated. Would a kitchen knife be suffice, does it need to be surrogated knife?
Could the same knife then match those type of stab wounds? Could an amateur do it easily? In movies it looks simple, but a hunter knows the reality of cutting flesh.
I will PM you the website address with the Maricopa Medical Examiner pictures if you want gruesome.
 
Old 04-26-2013, 11:23 AM
 
1,143 posts, read 1,019,075 times
Reputation: 1466
I didn't want the visuals, I was interested in the experience of a hunter. Since the knife was never recovered, I'm curious if the knife in question could be from a residential kitchen, or if Jodi brought her own knife, like a hunting knife.
 
Old 04-26-2013, 11:38 AM
 
Location: Ft. Myers
17,628 posts, read 11,202,057 times
Reputation: 37672
There is only one certainty in this entire affair..............and that is that we will never know the real story. You can bet your last dollar that even when they are putting the needle in Jodi's arm she will still be claiming her innocence and sticking to this unbelievable tale of hers.

If you look at her demeanor and blank stare, there are lights on but no one is home inside her head. She is totally devoid of any feelings or emotions, and certainly no remorse. She is as cold hearted as any serial killer we have ever seen.

Don
 
Old 04-26-2013, 11:55 AM
 
1,817 posts, read 2,760,673 times
Reputation: 3527
I put more stock in the opinion of the ME who has done over 6000 autopsies and who actually examined Travis's corpse than I do in the opinions of people who just play detective on the internet. But at the end of the day, I don't think it makes a difference to premeditation whether Travis was shot first or last. I think it's been well proven that Jodi lies about anything and everything.
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