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Old 06-19-2013, 06:33 AM
 
Location: 39 20' 59"N / 75 30' 53"W
16,085 posts, read 23,879,978 times
Reputation: 17982

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Here are the factors that Arizona law says the jury can consider as "mitigating factors":
  1. Arias' capacity to appreciate the wrongfulness of her conduct or to conform her conduct to the requirements of law was significantly impaired, but not so impaired as to constitute a defense to prosecution
  2. She was under unusual and substantial duress, although not such as to constitute a defense to prosecution
  3. Arias was legally accountable for the conduct of another, but her participation was relatively minor, although not so minor as to constitute a defense to prosecution
  4. Arias could not reasonably have foreseen that her conduct in the course of the commission of the offense for which Arias was convicted would cause, or would create a grave risk of causing, death to another person
  5. Arias’ age
They also can consider these points:
  • Cooperation with police/investigation
  • Lack of prior criminal record
  • Difficult childhood or family background
  • Family and community ties
  • Lack of intent in Felony murder
  • Good character prior to murder
  • Intelligence and education (often times lack of education is a mitigating factor)
  • Good conduct in prison
  • If victim's family asks for leniency
  • Possibility of rehabilitation, will convicted be a danger in the future
  • Shows remorse, grief

 
Old 06-19-2013, 01:21 PM
 
9,911 posts, read 9,299,531 times
Reputation: 8048
Quote:
Originally Posted by fruitlassie View Post
1. Manson himself didn't "kill all those people." He was convicted of conspiracy to commit murder and the murders were carried out by his followers. He was sentenced to death, but California eliminated the death penalty at one point so it was commuted to a life sentence. They later reinstated the DP but I guess they could not backtrack on his sentence.

2. Susan Smith lives in a "sweet penthouse"? I am somewhat surprised she didn't get the DP, but the jury felt she had sufficient mitigating factors (sexual abuse by her stepfather, etc).

3. Jodi went to jail because she premeditated an extremely cruel murder, not because she is "Spanish" (actually, her father is Mexican and her mother is Caucasian). She is eligible for the death penalty because she premeditated an extremely cruel murder. That is the only thing the jury should consider, in addition to any mitigating factors. I don't feel she has any mitigating factors to make her life worthy of being spared, but that will be for the jury to decide.
Susan Smith will be eligible for parole November 4, 2024 ... she will be 53 years old. Her ex, David and the father of Michael and Alex has stated he will attend any and all parole hearings and hopes he can stop Susan from ever getting out of prison.

Quote:
Originally Posted by blackzzz01 View Post
[/b]

Wow...have you forgotten her recycling program already?
And ... a book club and the T-Shirt sales.

I looked at 'the website that won't be named' and on the page where you purchase the Artwork & T-Shirts was a testimonial from an Animal Shelter (not humans.) It was a long glowing 'thank you' ....

"Many thanks for your most generous $160 donation to help us provide medical care, shelter, and loving, forever homes for our shelter animals. We could never carry out our mission - to rescue abused and abandoned cats and dogs - without the kind and ongoing assistance from people like you. This money will be used towards the spay and neuter for 14 urgent dogs who await new homes. Our volunteers devote countless hours to help socialize and foster these wonderful animals and organize adoption events and fundraisers throughout Connecticut. It's a wonderful feeling to see each animal thrive and eventually find a new home. We are so grateful that you are supporting our efforts." With heartfelt thanks-

No names, no shelter name, nothing but Connecticut listed. So I found the email address for the person that manages the website and the money that is contributed. I sent an email requesting the name of the Animal Shelter in Connecticut that received the generous donation from Arias.

Their reply to me:

I make sure I'm giving to the right place. I'm skeptical to give names as they can be scrutinized.

The glowing 'thank you' from the anonymous animal shelter was removed.
 
Old 06-19-2013, 02:10 PM
 
Location: 39 20' 59"N / 75 30' 53"W
16,085 posts, read 23,879,978 times
Reputation: 17982
What would you expect from a website titled Jodi Arias is innocent. I wouldn't even waste my time.
 
Old 06-19-2013, 02:44 PM
 
363 posts, read 585,733 times
Reputation: 159
Quote:
Originally Posted by fruitlassie View Post
1. Manson himself didn't "kill all those people." He was convicted of conspiracy to commit murder and the murders were carried out by his followers. He was sentenced to death, but California eliminated the death penalty at one point so it was commuted to a life sentence. They later reinstated the DP but I guess they could not backtrack on his sentence.

2. Susan Smith lives in a "sweet penthouse"? I am somewhat surprised she didn't get the DP, but the jury felt she had sufficient mitigating factors (sexual abuse by her stepfather, etc).

3. Jodi went to jail because she premeditated an extremely cruel murder, not because she is "Spanish" (actually, her father is Mexican and her mother is Caucasian). She is eligible for the death penalty because she premeditated an extremely cruel murder. That is the only thing the jury should consider, in addition to any mitigating factors. I don't feel she has any mitigating factors to make her life worthy of being spared, but that will be for the jury to decide.
Jodi probably did premeditate that murder and probably does deserve death if you look at it from a purely fact based view in isolation. I don't know if her mother is caucasian, and honestly I don't know what racial inference to draw when people use the word caucasian because apparently it means alot of things to different people. To people from a social anthropology caucasian is a social construct and can mean more or less whatever the speaker wants it to mean. In otherwords a black or a chinese can be considered a caucasian because its socially constructed. In scientific anthropology it has to do with skull measurements and shapes, the problem is it doesn't correlate back to our everyday concepts of race well because of racial admixture, muscles and fat and hair on the face and head make it impossible to transcribe these onto actual living people vs bones in a lab and not all races fit well into the model. Social anthropologist don't agree on who or what is caucasian. To me white if that is what you meant should be the preferred term. It clearly delineates a race of people indigenous to Europe. If your ancestors come from Europe and you are not mixed race your white, otherwise you are something else. Caucasian cannot be proven until the person is either dead and we measure their bones or until the varying social anthropologist figure out a way to establish more objective racial ways.

Jodi claimed she was abused as a child. If sexual abuse is enough to spare killing 5 kids I don't see why physical abuse isn't enough to spare you from killing 1 man. These are the kinds of problems that the susan smith type cases make. When whites are extended preferential treatment minorities are going to point to that and want it to even when they don't deserve it. I feel by giving Arias death it'd only perpetuate racism against mexican americans in the justice system . Susan Wright got 20 years 2nd degree murder for tying her husband to the bed and stabbing her husband 197 times to death, she is white and will be out next year on parole probably. Jodi is spanish and is facing death. These are on the face of it very similar crimes. I don't see how one gets effectively 10 years in prison and the other should get death in two states with highly similar laws and punishments for 1st degree murder It doesn't take a genius to see the difference is one is white the other is not. Now if you are a veteran and a white man they will come down on you worse than a black person because the gov't hates vets.

Study: Blacks Twice as Likely as Whites to Get Death Penalty in This Texas County | Mother Jones
-blacks 3-2 times more likely to be given death under similar circumstances. I suspect this extends to most non-whites.

The only mitigating factor Susan Smith had was being white. Every women accuses their dad of raping them when they get on the stand and that rape was SO traumatizing it caused them to kill their 5 kids or travis alexander. By that logic every women who was raped should be killing. Of course the courts will find a way to not give a mass murderer death if he is not too tanned and his nose is not too flat.

"Research showed that whites who raped and were convicted did not receive the death penalty in Virginia. Only black defendants did. In preparation for appeal, defense attorneys compiled statistics on capital punishment in Virginia during the 20th century. What they discovered was a disturbing trend toward the application of the death penalty in the state that predated the Civil War.

From 1900 until the time of the Martinsville Seven trial, thirty-seven black defendants were executed for the crime of rape. An additional nineteen received the death penalty for attempted rape. No white man had received the death penalty for either crime during the same period. In the 19th century, as might be expected, the figures were much worse. From the year 1800 until 1900, 526 black defendants were executed by the State of Virginia for a variety of offenses, which included burglary, slave revolt, robbery, stealing, arson and other felonies. Only 46 whites were executed. For the crime of rape or attempted rape, 64 black men received the death penalty, while no whites suffered the same fate for the same crime. In fact, for as long as records have been kept in Virginia, not one white man had ever been executed for the crime of rape.

This obvious disparity in sentencing was a revelation to many people. Defense attorneys were confident that any fair court, after reviewing the evidence, would see that the Virgina justice system was biased against black Americans. Defense attorneys submitted another appeal to the City of Richmond court. They outlined the curious history of capital punishment in the state of Virginia for the past one hundred and fifty years, including the shocking statistics they had compiled from government archives. Though it may have been conclusive to some jurists, Judge Ray Doubles was not convinced. He told defense attorneys that dozens of different juries at different times had sentenced those defendants to death. Therefore, it could not be said that the courts were acting on a policy that was either endorsed or supported by the state. The juries, in effect, acted on their own, and the state could not be held responsible for what they did. The appeal was denied again."
The Martinsville Seven, executed for white woman's rape — The Black Death Penalty — Crime Library on truTV.com
 
Old 06-19-2013, 03:01 PM
 
1,817 posts, read 2,758,130 times
Reputation: 3527
I would never dispute that there are major issues with the way the death penalty is applied. The entire justice system is rife with inequality. That's not something that is going to change overnight; we have to work with what we have. Do I think Susan Wright got off too easy? Absolutely!!! But in her case, there were witnesses who could testify that her husband was abusive. Susan Smith's stepfather admitted he had sexually abused her. There is no proof anywhere that Jodi was EVER abused by anyone. She said her mom spanked her with a wooden spoon a few times and she started concocting the "Travis abused me" story 3 years after she was arrested.

The fact of the matter is, Jodi is eligible for the DP here in Arizona because of the nature of her crime and the way the law is written. Race has nothing to do with it. (All the other women on Death Row in AZ are white, if it makes you feel better.) If the jury can't decide to give her the DP then LWOP will suffice.
 
Old 06-19-2013, 03:08 PM
 
1,817 posts, read 2,758,130 times
Reputation: 3527
Quote:
Originally Posted by CarolinaWoman View Post
Susan Smith will be eligible for parole November 4, 2024 ... she will be 53 years old. Her ex, David and the father of Michael and Alex has stated he will attend any and all parole hearings and hopes he can stop Susan from ever getting out of prison.



And ... a book club and the T-Shirt sales.

I looked at 'the website that won't be named' and on the page where you purchase the Artwork & T-Shirts was a testimonial from an Animal Shelter (not humans.) It was a long glowing 'thank you' ....

"Many thanks for your most generous $160 donation to help us provide medical care, shelter, and loving, forever homes for our shelter animals. We could never carry out our mission - to rescue abused and abandoned cats and dogs - without the kind and ongoing assistance from people like you. This money will be used towards the spay and neuter for 14 urgent dogs who await new homes. Our volunteers devote countless hours to help socialize and foster these wonderful animals and organize adoption events and fundraisers throughout Connecticut. It's a wonderful feeling to see each animal thrive and eventually find a new home. We are so grateful that you are supporting our efforts." With heartfelt thanks-

No names, no shelter name, nothing but Connecticut listed. So I found the email address for the person that manages the website and the money that is contributed. I sent an email requesting the name of the Animal Shelter in Connecticut that received the generous donation from Arias.

Their reply to me:

I make sure I'm giving to the right place. I'm skeptical to give names as they can be scrutinized.

The glowing 'thank you' from the anonymous animal shelter was removed.
LOL. I can only wonder who is buying those t-shirts and tracings..."a fool and his money are soon parted" comes to mind...
 
Old 06-20-2013, 12:43 AM
 
363 posts, read 585,733 times
Reputation: 159
Quote:
Originally Posted by fruitlassie View Post
I would never dispute that there are major issues with the way the death penalty is applied. The entire justice system is rife with inequality. That's not something that is going to change overnight; we have to work with what we have. Do I think Susan Wright got off too easy? Absolutely!!! But in her case, there were witnesses who could testify that her husband was abusive. Susan Smith's stepfather admitted he had sexually abused her. There is no proof anywhere that Jodi was EVER abused by anyone. She said her mom spanked her with a wooden spoon a few times and she started concocting the "Travis abused me" story 3 years after she was arrested.

The fact of the matter is, Jodi is eligible for the DP here in Arizona because of the nature of her crime and the way the law is written. Race has nothing to do with it. (All the other women on Death Row in AZ are white, if it makes you feel better.) If the jury can't decide to give her the DP then LWOP will suffice.
So we should give jodi death for not having witnesses to her abuse? I never agreed with the battered woman syndrome to begin with, its another legal abuse. Men don't get kill to kill their wives for emotionally abusing them and berating them, when is there going to be a fat wife-nagged man syndrome?

I don't think white people should be on death row for being white. I think the standard should be applied uniformly. Stab someone to death get x years in prison, everyone has excuses the fact of the matter is white folks are more calculating about their crimes. What susan wright had her friend say that her husband was a very bad bad bad boogie man who got what was coming to him is just lies. That is entirely cultural, I know how it goes, certain race and gender friends will tell any lie they can depending on how they feel. Jodi had no friends to lie for her and most minorities don't think up big elaborate plans on how to get away with a crime. I watch first 48, a black guy will just shoot a black guy and only try to get away after he does it, doesn't even try to make it look like an accident or bury the body or anything like a white guy would.
 
Old 06-20-2013, 10:23 AM
 
Location: Somewhere
8,071 posts, read 5,391,452 times
Reputation: 5654
Quote:
Originally Posted by scaramouchebluez View Post
So we should give jodi death for not having witnesses to her abuse? I never agreed with the battered woman syndrome to begin with, its another legal abuse. Men don't get kill to kill their wives for emotionally abusing them and berating them, when is there going to be a fat wife-nagged man syndrome?

I don't think white people should be on death row for being white. I think the standard should be applied uniformly. Stab someone to death get x years in prison, everyone has excuses the fact of the matter is white folks are more calculating about their crimes. What susan wright had her friend say that her husband was a very bad bad bad boogie man who got what was coming to him is just lies. That is entirely cultural, I know how it goes, certain race and gender friends will tell any lie they can depending on how they feel. Jodi had no friends to lie for her and most minorities don't think up big elaborate plans on how to get away with a crime. I watch first 48, a black guy will just shoot a black guy and only try to get away after he does it, doesn't even try to make it look like an accident or bury the body or anything like a white guy would.
I think as long as humans(judges and juries) are making the decisions there will be room for interpretation corruption and even luck. In my opinion a jury is as good as it gets because even if we left it up to a computer to decide the proper punishment for a crime, could we really trust the data entry clerk?

People with resources(money, education, contacts) will always have more opportunities to get away with crime.

Jodi might not be the best example in my opinion. She was not your average uneducated inner city minority. Read her blogs, she is smarter than average but probably not as smart as she thought she was.

What Jodi didn't have was money to pay good lawyers. I truly believe she shot him first and then stabbed him and this fact has made her look more evil than what she probably is. Jodi made far more planning that those women you listed. She probably killed Travis because she was angry(and that's another issue) and she thought she could get away with murder but luck was not on her side. Taking pictures(with Travis) was probably not part of her plan. Maybe if Travis had not bought a new camera, Jodi would be out there killing other people or living with remorse. Or maybe if the police detective was a lazy guy who needed to leave early to watch a football game Jodi would be free like Casey Anthony.

There is probably many Jodis out there who got away. Ever watch Match Point by Woody Allen? It's fiction but it illustrates that point. The killer was very clumsy but luck was on his side. Jodi might get even more unlucky if she gets a bloodthirsty jury. I don't think we can't design a system that can prevent luck or corruption.
 
Old 06-20-2013, 11:18 AM
 
363 posts, read 585,733 times
Reputation: 159
^True, what if we force jurors to be blind folded so they cannot see the color of the people.
 
Old 06-20-2013, 11:32 AM
 
Location: 39 20' 59"N / 75 30' 53"W
16,085 posts, read 23,879,978 times
Reputation: 17982
Quote:
Originally Posted by scaramouchebluez View Post
^True, what if we force jurors to be blind folded so they cannot see the color of the people.
Perhaps a question during voir dire should be racial prejudice, then again there's the question of honesty. How would you know if a jury panel member wasn't white supremacist or KKK affiliated, particularly in southern states where its most prevalent.

Concur with Sugah Rays previous reply.
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