U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > True Crime
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
 
Old 03-22-2013, 09:07 PM
 
4,253 posts, read 5,442,809 times
Reputation: 10299

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mtn. States Resident View Post
I totally agree, Mouldy and am so glad you wrote that. As I recall when questioned about whether Aries was a "good Mormon or not," her answer was, "There is no such thing as a perfect Mormon." I don't know that any person on the earth is perfect, but I do know being in UT now and having spent many years in UT and surrounding states with Mormons, she is not typical of a "bad Mormon."

And most WOMEN do not plan their next sexual trist to happen within 36 hrs. after she's self-admittedly killed her boyfriend.

Sorry I can't rep more people. I don't understand why C-D will let me rep some and not others (even though I haven't repped them at all).

If she couldn't have him, as he certainly was trying to dump her and had started dating another, then she was made sure no other woman could have him, IMHO.

Kuddos to all who post so myths can be addressed !!!!


I still want to hear more about the assault she experienced at age 13 with a knife at her throat. If others think that isn't significant given how she slashed Alexander's throat, think again. Whether it's so much over the top given all the other stuff they have they don't bother to address it further is a different issue.

MSR

Hi MSR, the highlighted statement above is not actually 100% true. The girl he was supposedly dating had never been his girlfriend and they were originally going to get to know each other better on the trip away. She had already decided though that she didn't want to be anything more than friends and that he was free to take someone else on the trip if he wanted to. She was only going because her attempt to cancel was at short notice and she felt obligated to go. It's in the detective's report.

It seems fairly clear that regardless of whether he wanted to be with JA openly or not, he was certainly still having a consensual ongoing physical relationship with her. A lot of the messages between them look like he was the jealous one more so than her. I know people don't want to hear that but I am about as impartial as it gets on this and I see a lot of problems with the case. I think it's because I am in a different country and I'm not getting all of the media bias that must be going on there. Sometimes it looks like commentators around the internet are watching a completely different trial to me.

 
Old 03-22-2013, 09:54 PM
 
8,440 posts, read 11,158,366 times
Reputation: 6212
Quote:
Originally Posted by CarolinaWoman View Post
I agree with you Mouldy ... if Travis had been Catholic ... Pentecostal ... JW ... whatever Arias would have joined right in just to have Travis Alexander.
CW, I believe one of her former boyfriends prior to Travis (I do get them confused b/c I really wasn't that interested) commented about that. I think it's the one with whom she bought a house in Palm Desert. HLN has either interviews and/or depositions etc. from him that Jodi changed her "dabbling" depending on which boyfriend she was currently dating or planning on dating. I hesitate to write one of their names, partly b/c I don't know all of their names and more importantly, I don't want to inaccurately attribute a statement to the wrong ex, who is not on trial.

I'm still not clear who her main squeeze was when she did the wicken stuff and whether or not she ever quit.

My point is both Mouldy and CW have pointed out the defendant changed her religion/interests based on who was in her life and I agree.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I didn't hear a lot of the first month of the trial nor any other witnesses on the stand besides Ryan Burns, Dr. Samuels and the defendant.

Did anyone question the previous boyfriend with whom she apparently co-purchased a home in Palm Deseret about that house? I'm not implying the home had anything to do with Travis Alexander's death, rather, I'm wondering what happened to it. It matters as that boyfriend lives elsewhere now and Aries was living with her grandparents. Did they sell it, lose it or other? It matters as many of Travis' friends have stated how he asked THEM to help work with her to motivate her, or to help get her a job, let alone that he paid her cash to clean his house.

What happened to either her ability at one time to earn money enough to co-purchase a house in Palm Desert, which is far from cheap, to someone who had to borrow money from Travis and live with her grandparents, after she left one of the boyfriends?

Thanks in advance to anyone who can clarify what happened to her co-owned house and when her spiral downward, in her career, really started.

It helps to have the posts of others so we can learn more. Thank you all for teaching me what you have via your posts.

MSR
 
Old 03-22-2013, 10:07 PM
 
8,440 posts, read 11,158,366 times
Reputation: 6212
Quote:
Originally Posted by fruitlassie View Post
fruitlassie,

That is quite the vid. I appreciate his skill as an attorney and his approach to this case; however, I won't stand in line or buy something on EBAY which he signed.

Nonetheless, it is interesting to see the reaction of others. Thanks for posting.

MSR
 
Old 03-23-2013, 12:35 AM
 
8,440 posts, read 11,158,366 times
Reputation: 6212
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lady Ice View Post
Hi MSR, the highlighted statement above is not actually 100% true. The girl he was supposedly dating had never been his girlfriend and they were originally going to get to know each other better on the trip away. She had already decided though that she didn't want to be anything more than friends and that he was free to take someone else on the trip if he wanted to. She was only going because her attempt to cancel was at short notice and she felt obligated to go. It's in the detective's report.

It seems fairly clear that regardless of whether he wanted to be with JA openly or not, he was certainly still having a consensual ongoing physical relationship with her. A lot of the messages between them look like he was the jealous one more so than her. I know people don't want to hear that but I am about as impartial as it gets on this and I see a lot of problems with the case. I think it's because I am in a different country and I'm not getting all of the media bias that must be going on there. Sometimes it looks like commentators around the internet are watching a completely different trial to me.
Hi Lady Ice,

Fair enough. I can except what you say above. Potentially some sources are confused. I personally don't care, except that Travis had expressed wanting to get to know a DIFFERANT woman better.

I also agree with you there was a consensual sexual relationship between J.A. and T.A. and he didn't tell his friends or family. What I also believe, knowing a lot more about some of his friends and the meetings they attended pre-Jodi and after she arrived etc., is she had a sexual prowess that she used. Thus, why many girlfriends/wives had such bad vibes around her and didn't want their men near her. Their guys also agreed - they didn't want near her either.

Travis hadn't had the dating and social experience most of his friends had. So while those males knew how to protect themselves from her, for Travis, having had her interested in him initially would have seemed like he had gotten the grand prize. Not having the dating/social experience with women like his friends did, he potentially didn't recognize those protective warning feelings so many of the other guys described. And he told friends he didn't know how to get rid of her.

You may see it differently but I don't think you and I are saying anything that is really different. I'm just adding some history of why someone who was professionally accomplished could get lured into a web of lies and sexual behaviors introduced by Aries and struggle to get out. I use as my first example of my statement, Dr. Samuels. To have done evaluations for 30+ years, he had to do good enough to be retained by attorneys over the years. Yet, he too, violated professional boundaries with Aries and he is married and professionally trained how to deal with clients like her. I'm not saying Dr. Samuels had sexual contact, but there certainly were some friendly or "comforting" looks her way.

From your perspective, what proof is there that Travis was struggling with the break up? I'd like to read or listen to more about that.

Good to read your thoughts. Keep them coming so we can clarify what may be getting additional air time in the U.S. or my region, since many of the witnesses live in this state, compared to what you're seeing internationally and the differences between what some do or don't see. Local females here were on the witness list but have been informed they won't need to testify. However, they have shared information in this media market that you may not hear. Both males and females here knew both Aries and Travis.

Travis had to have some wonderful qualities that his friends throughout the world have all said the same things about him. Many of them stayed with Travis when in Mesa and some of them had surprise visits with Aries just dropping by, uninvited.

MSR

Last edited by Mtn. States Resident; 03-23-2013 at 12:44 AM..
 
Old 03-23-2013, 02:00 AM
 
Location: Out there somewhere...a traveling man.
39,547 posts, read 47,744,756 times
Reputation: 110409
Have you noticed the female lawyer for Jodi could pass as her sister. They both look very much alike. Their hairstyle and mannerisms are almost identical too.
It seems to me Jodi and her team are enjoying their 15 minutes of fame and are milking this show for the excitement of the movie being filmed about the case. They now will be immortalized in history and they are lovin' it.
 
Old 03-23-2013, 09:35 AM
 
Location: Miami
151 posts, read 183,174 times
Reputation: 266
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lady Ice View Post
Hi MSR, the highlighted statement above is not actually 100% true. The girl he was supposedly dating had never been his girlfriend and they were originally going to get to know each other better on the trip away. She had already decided though that she didn't want to be anything more than friends and that he was free to take someone else on the trip if he wanted to. She was only going because her attempt to cancel was at short notice and she felt obligated to go. It's in the detective's report.

It seems fairly clear that regardless of whether he wanted to be with JA openly or not, he was certainly still having a consensual ongoing physical relationship with her. A lot of the messages between them look like he was the jealous one more so than her. I know people don't want to hear that but I am about as impartial as it gets on this and I see a lot of problems with the case. I think it's because I am in a different country and I'm not getting all of the media bias that must be going on there. Sometimes it looks like commentators around the internet are watching a completely different trial to me.
People here watch too many movies so it's always the good guys vs the bad guys. There is never a gray area especially if we are talking about a church boy.

I think claiming that he was sexually inexperienced and that she took him to the dark side while all he wanted to do was date a good girl is as unlikely as Jodi saying he manipulated and abused her

They both were having consexual sex all the way till the end. She followed him on his trips and he allowed her to follow him.

She probably thought she could get him back because he did express being attracted to her body and having sex. They also spoke a lot about daily events, movies, friends etc. This was not just the regular booty call you see on movies. They had dated before too. He probably didn't want to date her not because she was also a pervert but because she was showing her obsessive colors.

Travis had no idea how mentally ill Jodi was though. He was a pervert for sure and she was psycho that is a danger to society.
 
Old 03-23-2013, 12:10 PM
 
8,440 posts, read 11,158,366 times
Reputation: 6212
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harlem Shake View Post
People here watch too many movies so it's always the good guys vs the bad guys. There is never a gray area especially if we are talking about a church boy.

I think claiming that he was sexually inexperienced and that she took him to the dark side while all he wanted to do was date a good girl is as unlikely as Jodi saying he manipulated and abused her

They both were having consexual sex all the way till the end. She followed him on his trips and he allowed her to follow him.

She probably thought she could get him back because he did express being attracted to her body and having sex. They also spoke a lot about daily events, movies, friends etc. This was not just the regular booty call you see on movies. They had dated before too. He probably didn't want to date her not because she was also a pervert but because she was showing her obsessive colors.

Travis had no idea how mentally ill Jodi was though. He was a pervert for sure and she was psycho that is a danger to society.
A lot of good points Harlem Shake. Sorry I couldn't rep you - this system of C-D that doesn't always work.

I'm not sure what types of sexual experiences Travis would have had if he had connected with a different female instead of Aries. And I'm really not interested.

I totally agree about her obsession with him and why he wanted to increase his interaction/dating experiences with other females.

What I'm liking about this thread is so many who are posting are focusing on the obsession she had on him and what she would do to keep him. And AMEN, he did not understand her level of danger to society.

I don't understand why Samuels didn't give her an Axis II diagnosis. Any thoughts about that one?

And now Samuels introducing essentially new information about her wearing a sweater...... had he administered all the psychological tests he should have, he would have confirmed clinical impressions as an objective consultant. I wonder if he did administer the MMPI and other tests and since they didn't help her they aren't being discussed?

Her original defense team left. I also wonder if other forensic psychologists started work on this case and resigned.

If anyone has a legal background or has first hand knowledge of this information, would the prosecution have access to any and all tests Samuels may have administered to her even if the defense decided not to use them in court? I can't remember, did Samuels get asked directly ALL of the tests he administered or just to interpret those he completed?

Thanks,

MSR
 
Old 03-23-2013, 12:17 PM
 
8,440 posts, read 11,158,366 times
Reputation: 6212
Quote:
Originally Posted by nitram View Post
Have you noticed the female lawyer for Jodi could pass as her sister. They both look very much alike. Their hairstyle and mannerisms are almost identical too.
It seems to me Jodi and her team are enjoying their 15 minutes of fame and are milking this show for the excitement of the movie being filmed about the case. They now will be immortalized in history and they are lovin' it.
nitram,

I have. I'm always doing something else when I listen to anything about this trial, so I may be very wrong about this. It seemed to me that her female attorney has had a consistent appearance since day #1 of this marathon trial. My observations have been Aries changing her appearance to look like her attorney.

There was a day somewhere midstream during the defendant's testimony when her male attorney had her stand by her female attorney in court. I think it had something to do with how tall she is or something similar. It seems to me that was the turning point when Aries tried to look more like her attorney, but I could very wrong since I rely a lot on newspaper and written accounts to learn more.

IMHO, Lifetime made a huge error confirming they were doing a movie about this trial.

MSR
 
Old 03-23-2013, 03:17 PM
 
Location: Cali
3,904 posts, read 6,199,062 times
Reputation: 2224
Arias is simply a sad and pathetic figure. She really should have had some serious counseling when she was younger.
 
Old 03-23-2013, 07:10 PM
 
4,253 posts, read 5,442,809 times
Reputation: 10299
Hi , I hope you don't mind if I break up your post so that I can address some individual points.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mtn. States Resident View Post
Hi Lady Ice,

Fair enough. I can except what you say above. Potentially some sources are confused. I personally don't care, except that Travis had expressed wanting to get to know a DIFFERANT woman better.

I also agree with you there was a consensual sexual relationship between J.A. and T.A. and he didn't tell his friends or family. What I also believe, knowing a lot more about some of his friends and the meetings they attended pre-Jodi and after she arrived etc., is she had a sexual prowess that she used. Thus, why many girlfriends/wives had such bad vibes around her and didn't want their men near her. Their guys also agreed - they didn't want near her either.
I had a boyfriend once against whom my friends and family reacted in exactly the same way. Turns out they were right and he was a predator that ended up obsessed and threatening to me. I was too naive to see it and thought that he just needed someone to show him unconditional love and not leave him. I didn't know that was part of the trap and before I knew it I was isolated away from all of the people that were concerned about me and married to a monster. I am actually still hiding from him even though we have a child but that's a whole other story.

Quote:
Travis hadn't had the dating and social experience most of his friends had. So while those males knew how to protect themselves from her, for Travis, having had her interested in him initially would have seemed like he had gotten the grand prize. Not having the dating/social experience with women like his friends did, he potentially didn't recognize those protective warning feelings so many of the other guys described. And he told friends he didn't know how to get rid of her.
From what I have read, Travis seems to have had quite a few women. I'm not sure I believe that he was all that innocent. He seemed to have a string of girlfriends that backed off after a while for whatever reason. He was also apparently this charismatic public speaker with a long list of females making innuendos on his social network pages. He just doesn't come across to me as the retiring wallflower type. That does not mean that what you are saying isn't correct, you can be experienced and still naive if you have only associated with decent people before. I think this might be a grey area that really doesn't matter in the end because regardless of what his sex life was like, he certainly didn't deserve what he got. Nobody deserves that.

Quote:
You may see it differently but I don't think you and I are saying anything that is really different. I'm just adding some history of why someone who was professionally accomplished could get lured into a web of lies and sexual behaviors introduced by Aries and struggle to get out. I use as my first example of my statement, Dr. Samuels. To have done evaluations for 30+ years, he had to do good enough to be retained by attorneys over the years. Yet, he too, violated professional boundaries with Aries and he is married and professionally trained how to deal with clients like her. I'm not saying Dr. Samuels had sexual contact, but there certainly were some friendly or "comforting" looks her way.
I had to fully restrain myself the other day from having a huge rant on here about the use of the psychologist. Both sides of the whole thing had me twisting in knots. I am a psychology student (just two subjects off my degree) and I was furious at how the profession was being made to look in this court case. Firstly the Prosecutor made me want to reach through the screen and slap him. He was trying to discredit psychometric testing, something which he clearly knew nothing about, and concentrating on points that didn't matter. We study for a long time to administer and assess psych testing and then this guy comes along and tries to pull it to pieces while not understanding even what he was looking at.

The thing is, the psychologist was dodgy but not for the reasons that Martinez was trying to say. That's why it was so infuriating that he didn't know what he was talking about. The only question he needed to ask him was "Can a psychopath fake an assessment?" and the answer, if the psychologist was honest, would have to be a big "YES". An honest psychologist would have subjected her to a psychopathy checklist and a personality test before even bothering with PTSD or any other anxiety disorder given the nature of the crime. The most salient, if not the defining feature of psychopathy is the ability to lie and manipulate, assessment procedures are useless against them because they just use the information they glean from the process to be more convincing liars. I think that it is a given that anyone having been through such an event would experience some level of PTSD. The test is not to discover PTSD but to assess levels for treatment. It is a test given for the purposes of treatment, the prosecutor should have found that out and made it clear.

So we have a situation where a psychologist has come into this case for the defense. He has administered an assessment procedure that precluded aspects that would look bad such as checking for psychopathic personality traits (of which I have seen a few from her). He has given her a book at the beginning of his assessment that is a self help book for low self esteem which for a psychopath is basically a handbook on how to appear to have low self esteem and this trait has featured in his diagnosis. Then tests her for PTSD (an anxiety disorder) which it would be easy for a psychopath to fake with the motivation to do so. These tests are made for people who are suffering and need treatment. They don't need to prove they have PTSD, it is already understood that they have it!

Martinez was concentrating on the ethical reasons he should not have given her the book because it suggested treatment or sympathy, but didn't make it clear that the reason why an assessor should not provide any such material is because the assessment itself is then tainted. The assessment should be an objective snapshot of the state of mind of the defendant. The doctor giving her that book not only altered her state of mind but was providing her with a clue as to the kind of personality she should adopt to avoid prosecution!

I could go on and on about this but I'll spare you the boredom of my ranting

Quote:
From your perspective, what proof is there that Travis was struggling with the break up? I'd like to read or listen to more about that.
The simple fact that he kept having sex with her. If he thought she was crazy, as some of his messages indicate, then common sense should tell him to not let her close. Lock the doors and get a police order for her to stay away. I think he was just as obsessed with her though and maybe he even liked that she was so obsessed with him. The relationship of mine that I mentioned above was a lot like that, it took a terrifying incident for me to finally walk away and stay gone. This was his terrifying incident, only he didn't get out.

Quote:
Good to read your thoughts. Keep them coming so we can clarify what may be getting additional air time in the U.S. or my region, since many of the witnesses live in this state, compared to what you're seeing internationally and the differences between what some do or don't see. Local females here were on the witness list but have been informed they won't need to testify. However, they have shared information in this media market that you may not hear. Both males and females here knew both Aries and Travis.

Travis had to have some wonderful qualities that his friends throughout the world have all said the same things about him. Many of them stayed with Travis when in Mesa and some of them had surprise visits with Aries just dropping by, uninvited.

MSR
What may be valuable to you about my perspective is that I am pretty much only hearing what the jury is (supposed to be) hearing. I have gone over all of the documentation, I have read the autopsy and police reports and I listen very carefully to what the witnesses are saying. When you are listening to all of the friends and family you need to remember that they have lost a loved one and we all tend to see the dearly departed through rose coloured glasses. I have no doubt that Travis was a great guy. I also have no doubt that Jodi killed him and I do think that she planned it. What I disagree with most about this case is that everyone seems to think that there is a strong case against her.

There really isn't a strong case, not for premeditation anyway. The gun used was stolen from her grandparents we all know that, but it hasn't been proved, not by a long shot. Without the gun as evidence they can imply all they want but it does not put that gun in this murder scene.

The gas cans were a ridiculous farce that proved nothing. Let's just say that Martinez saying a store had no returns on a given day was somehow proof of that fact. Let's just say that extra transaction on the bank statement was indeed for gas without any documentation to prove that. Let's just say any of that could be taken as proof of an extra gas can. How does it prove premeditation? If she filled those cans in Salt Lake City when she was supposed to be there and not hiding a part of her journey, then it would appear she needed them for the purpose that she stated, wouldn't it? Martinez made a big mistake trying to do a big gotcha with the extra can. Showing that she had borrowed the cans before the journey and highlighting the contradiction of her filling them in California, when she supposedly wanted to buy extra cheaper fuel out of state, painted a much more damning picture of her guilt then wasting time trying to prove she filled an extra can in Salt Lake City. He actually showed that she didn't necessarily need them for the execution of the murder to me.

The only real evidence they have in this case is the hand print and the photos. The rest is all circumstantial when you really think about it. I'm not sure what the criteria are for evidence in a US court of law (I'm not even sure what they are here in Australia), how much weight does circumstantial evidence have? Does it have any?

The activities in the house until the body was found sound wrong to me. Travis' watch and ring that he always wore were in the kitchen, his phone and laptop were in his downstairs office, his car is there, his dog is running around, there are two other guys and their girlfriends living there or going in and out, there is the smell of death pervading the whole house, nobody has heard from him for days.....but nobody thinks to check in his room to see if he's okay? What sort of a household is this? I have lived in share houses before, even with people I don't like or want anything to do with, but I would have checked out their room long before this under these circumstances. It just doesn't sound right to me. There is a whole other layer to this case that isn't being looked at and emotions against this woman are so high that people seem blinded to the inconsistencies in the case against her.

One more example before I go, if you read the autopsy report it is clear that the bullet didn't go through the brain (I can show why if you want). Why did the ME contradict his own report on the witness stand?

Sorry for the long post but I have a lot of thoughts on this case. The psychological aspect is fascinating to me, not only because of my studies but because of my own experience with toxic relationships and people. There is a lot more to this case than meets the eye and the deeper you dig, the more interesting it becomes.

Last edited by Lady Ice; 03-23-2013 at 07:50 PM..
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Closed Thread

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > True Crime
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top