U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > True Crime
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
 
Old 04-07-2013, 04:33 AM
 
Location: Ft. Myers
17,768 posts, read 11,285,529 times
Reputation: 37921

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by fisheye View Post
I still think that the gunshot was first. The cartridge casing could have landed on a floor and was later kicked onto the blood. The .25 is not a strong weapon. But it was certainly enough to disorient Travis and make him defenseless to Jodi's knife attacks. I still think that Travis would have been shot more than once if either the gun did not jam or Jodi had the magazine (I speculate that she could have stolen the gun without the magazine). I would still like to know if her grandfather kept the magazine in his weapon? There is a chance that her grandfather kept the magazine separate from the pistol. Emptying the pistol would have been so much easier than stabbing Travis almost thirty times. The one shot does not make any sense to me.
That scenario is certainly possible. It does make sense that if she shot him first she would have better control over him and then be in a stronger position to do all the butchering. Maybe she held the gun on him, ordered him to sit down in the shower, and then shot him. He may have then come out of the shower trying to escape and she did the rest to him. The only thing that sort of doesn't fit with that is where they said he was low on blood when shot based on what they saw during the autopsy.

I also wonder about the bullets matching up with the ones that the Detective said they recovered from the Grandparents home. During that one interview session he said "we have the rest of the bullets and they match", but I don't think that little fact was ever mentioned in court. If it was, I missed it. It should be an easy job to determine if the one in the shooting was the same make and lot as the ones left over at the house, forensics are very good about determining that kind of information.

Don

 
Old 04-07-2013, 06:03 AM
 
16,023 posts, read 19,783,597 times
Reputation: 26214
Quote:
Originally Posted by CarolinaWoman View Post
I believe she is guilty of PM murder too. I like Martinez ... I don't feel it's egomanical ... he knows what he is doing. I don't always get right away where he is going with his questions ... but I certainly understood the Snow White scenario. ALV can find domestic violence in any situation with that little chart she compiled. All Juan Martinez wants is a simple YES or NO answer to his questions. Samuels did it and now ALV both want to expand with a long elaborate response containing no answer to his question ... thus he gets frustrated and me too. Just answer the question .... yes ... or no.
These are my opinions.....I feel the opposite. I think asking questions in a mocking way makes Martinez look like an egomaniac, and I believe his ongoing diatribes and mocking has/will sabotage his plan to get her convicted of murder in the first and his ultimate goal of a death penalty verdict.

How can you mock witnesses and take jibes and expect other things you say to hold the seriousness that this case requires. A death penalty verdict is taken very seriously. Prove or disprove the statements of witnesses. His ongoing jibes have probably offended many of the jurors on some level by now...Just look at the threads here....

Look at the juror getting thrown out....The other jurors take having to make this decision very seriously, and Martinez rants cause too much emotional response, detracts and takes the focus off the actual and factual evidence of both sides in a big way. She'll get second...

CarolinaWoman [/quote] I have always heard that too ... act of passion. This type of murder is not normal unless there is a powerful amount of rage and anger. It just boils down to one thing Travis Alexander died a horrible death at the hands of Jodi Arias and I sincerely hope the jury sees this and finds her guilty in the first.[/quote]

This is exactly how the victim of domestic abuse fits in this case.

Last edited by JanND; 04-07-2013 at 06:04 AM.. Reason: edit text
 
Old 04-07-2013, 07:14 AM
 
Location: Swiftwater, PA
14,456 posts, read 11,802,236 times
Reputation: 10837
Quote:
Originally Posted by don1945 View Post
That scenario is certainly possible. It does make sense that if she shot him first she would have better control over him and then be in a stronger position to do all the butchering. Maybe she held the gun on him, ordered him to sit down in the shower, and then shot him. He may have then come out of the shower trying to escape and she did the rest to him. The only thing that sort of doesn't fit with that is where they said he was low on blood when shot based on what they saw during the autopsy.

I also wonder about the bullets matching up with the ones that the Detective said they recovered from the Grandparents home. During that one interview session he said "we have the rest of the bullets and they match", but I don't think that little fact was ever mentioned in court. If it was, I missed it. It should be an easy job to determine if the one in the shooting was the same make and lot as the ones left over at the house, forensics are very good about determining that kind of information.

Don
Because the .25 does not have a lot of energy; the bullet probably did not penetrate very far? I would like to hear how deep the bullet did penetrate from the autopsy. Probably the bullet also did not expand – like higher velocity calibers. Bleeding could have been minimal for the first few seconds. If Travis was still moving (but disoriented) Jodi would want to stop that movement and immediately started stabbing. She went to great links to cover her tracks and could not afford to let Travis recover and identify her. If her first stab wounds were to the chest; it is possible that Travis lost blood pressure to head – again minimizing the bleeding from the bullet wound.

As far as matching bullets with the grandfathers weapon: Did they simply recover unspent ammunition or fired casings? There is matching and matching. A statement about matching the ammunition could mean that it was from the same manufacturer and not that it was fired from the exact weapon? The only way that forensics could match that casing up with the crime scene is if the grandparents kept spent shell casings – which is probably not likely.
 
Old 04-07-2013, 09:17 AM
 
Location: Ft. Myers
17,768 posts, read 11,285,529 times
Reputation: 37921
No, I think they recovered unfired bullets, but my point was that at least the brand could be matched up with the one that was used. Maybe there is even a way for them to determine if the bullets came from the same manufacturing lot. On some of the documentary type crime shows (the real ones, not CSI or similar) the forensic people can determine if things like batteries used in a pipe bomb came from a particular lot, so I thought maybe shell casings could be somehow identified also.

I was thinking about something else last night that goes back to the premeditation theory. Jodi has made numerous trips between California and Arizona over the years and she never carried extra gas on any of those trips, nor did she rent a different car than her own. Why this time ??????? The answer is simple, she didn't want to stop at gas stations with video equipment and she didn't want her well known car to be ever seen there on that day. There is no other explanation for those two facts, so she planned it and pretty much would have gotten away with it except for the palm print and the pictures of her being there. Those are two things that tripped her up and that she didn't plan for.

Don
 
Old 04-07-2013, 10:42 AM
 
1,155 posts, read 1,023,536 times
Reputation: 1477
Good thinking Don. About the angle of the gunshot, that theory that she ordered him to sit down...that would fit...

Ok, devils advocate.....About the gas cans, , Jodi's California boyfriend did testify that she used gas cans before. It was for a camping trip. So she had a history of using them.
Maybe they did recover ammo from the grandfathers gun, and they didn't match up, that's why Juan didn't enter it into evidence.
Jodi's car wasn't very reliable. That's why she was buying Travis's BMW. She may have rented the car for for reliability and to be stealth. But maybe she was being sneaky, intending to spy/stalk Travis, not murder him.

She was with him for 8 hours, to turn on a dime and voraciously take him down would require a mental/emotional trigger. Jodi was a sociopath but she wasn't a trained assassin. This level of overkill would suggest crime of passion.
 
Old 04-07-2013, 10:59 AM
 
Location: Swiftwater, PA
14,456 posts, read 11,802,236 times
Reputation: 10837
Quote:
Originally Posted by don1945 View Post
No, I think they recovered unfired bullets, but my point was that at least the brand could be matched up with the one that was used. Maybe there is even a way for them to determine if the bullets came from the same manufacturing lot. On some of the documentary type crime shows (the real ones, not CSI or similar) the forensic people can determine if things like batteries used in a pipe bomb came from a particular lot, so I thought maybe shell casings could be somehow identified also.Don
To the best of my knowledge, I have been wrong in the past, chemical tags are not required in gunpowder. I remember that there was legislation introduced along those lines – I just don't think that it got anywhere. Chemical tags are used in explosives – such as dynamite.

Besides; there is a chance that the grandfather's ammunition was old and the gun had not been fired for some time? Possibly purchased before anybody thought about tags?

The shell case is stamped with the manufacturer’s stamp. That did tell the police who made the ammunition. There is also the chance for a partial print off the case from being loaded into the weapon or magazine – although the .25 caliber case is small. I don't know if police labs can detect residual chemicals on the brass case. Possibly the ammunition was stored in a dresser with the grandmother's fragrances?

If they have nothing other than the manufacture; there could have been thousands or maybe millions of rounds produced exactly alike?
 
Old 04-07-2013, 11:28 AM
 
9,153 posts, read 7,254,008 times
Reputation: 13848
Quote:
Originally Posted by trinity1111 View Post
Ok, devils advocate.....About the gas cans, , Jodi's California boyfriend did testify that she used gas cans before. It was for a camping trip. So she had a history of using them.
Plus, she wasn't just going to Arizona where she had been several times before, she was driving to Utah. I don't know if she'd driven there before, but if she hadn't it would make sense to carry extra gas just in case. I know I've done that when traveling alone especially. And, if she was driving on Sunday, it's sometimes hard to find an open station in some areas of Utah.
 
Old 04-07-2013, 11:46 AM
 
1,817 posts, read 2,766,005 times
Reputation: 3527
Quote:
Originally Posted by trinity1111 View Post
Good thinking Don. About the angle of the gunshot, that theory that she ordered him to sit down...that would fit...

Ok, devils advocate.....About the gas cans, , Jodi's California boyfriend did testify that she used gas cans before. It was for a camping trip. So she had a history of using them.
Maybe they did recover ammo from the grandfathers gun, and they didn't match up, that's why Juan didn't enter it into evidence.
Jodi's car wasn't very reliable. That's why she was buying Travis's BMW. She may have rented the car for for reliability and to be stealth. But maybe she was being sneaky, intending to spy/stalk Travis, not murder him.

She was with him for 8 hours, to turn on a dime and voraciously take him down would require a mental/emotional trigger. Jodi was a sociopath but she wasn't a trained assassin. This level of overkill would suggest crime of passion.
In Jodi's interrogation video Det. Flores said the grandfather's ammunition DID match. And what about the displaced license plates - does anyone really believe that in the time it took her to buy a drink and go to the restroom at Starbucks, some skaters with a screwdriver would have taken off her plate and just left it lying there on the ground? Her phone was turned off the entire time she was in Arizona. She traded a dvd player for the gas cans, and a dvd player just happened to be one of the other items "stolen" from grandpa's house. The car rental guy testified she had blonde hair when she picked the car up, but she had brown hair by the time she got to Travis's.

The totality of all these things screams premeditation. There was no "turn on a dime," she started planning this trip the moment he sent her that message calling her a sociopath. But she wanted to have one last sex session with him and possibly give him the opportunity to change his mind about taking her to Cancun, plus she had been driving all night and needed some sleep before she continued to Utah.
 
Old 04-07-2013, 12:44 PM
 
Location: Ft. Myers
17,768 posts, read 11,285,529 times
Reputation: 37921
The one thing that can't be disputed is that Jodi is crafty and cunning. How many of us could think on our feet and come up with minute details about the most insignificant things to create a somewhat believable story ? I would be tripping all over myself, but she stays calm and keeps the tales flowing.

We all have our theories, here is mine: She was getting close to the 10th when Travis and the other girl were supposed to leave for Cancun. As time went on she was getting madder and madder, and was starting to realize she was nothing more to him than someone he could explore his sexual fantasies with. Up until that point she held out hope that MAYBE, just MAYBE he might start to like her for herself, but that was starting to fade.

So, a week or so before the murder she decides that she has had enough and that if she couldn't have him that damn other girl won't either. She fakes a robbery to steal the gun because if she just borrows it the gun will have to be put back after the crime, and it would be available to the cops for testing. It has to disappear completely, so it is "stolen."

Jodi made the comment during the interrogation that this was "just like on CSI or on some of the crime shows ", so she evidently watched those and knew how criminals screw up. Since Jodi thinks she is smarter than everyone else, she was going to plan this one so she would not even be near him at the time of death. Her car was either too recognizable or not in good enough condition to make the trip, so she rented one. The gas cans gave her enough range to get there and back without every stopping, so there would be no trace of her buying gas or stopping anywhere along the way. I bet she even stocked up on food and drinks for the trip.

The sex at the house was one last attempt to get Travis to care for her, but at the end of it she knew in her heart it was only sex and nothing more, so they argued. He went into the shower to get away from the argument (we guys do things like that when we get tired of the discussion ) and Jodi decided it was time to wrap up this relationship on HER TERMS.

I suspect she confronted him with the gun to scare the hell out of him and to let him know she meant business. He may have either complied or maybe he made some effort to protect himself, but the gun and knife were too much for him and he was killed.

Jodi tried to clean up any trace of her being there, she wet down the bathroom floor, picked up all her belongings, put the knife in the dishwasher and the camera in the washer (maybe by accident in with his clothes), and she removed the gun so it could be dumped somewhere to never be found again.

Once home she tries to distance herself by sending emails and voice mails as if nothing has happened as far as she knows, and she goes on with her life as usual. She didn't plan on the one palm print and the camera card surviving, and since those were outside her plan she had no way to explain those.

That is my theory, and it is probably as close to true as any of us will ever know. I don't foresee any Perry Mason Moment where Jodi breaks down and yells "Ok, I did it and here is how I did it !" What is the old saying ? Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned ? This is a perfect example of that rage and fury.

Don
 
Old 04-07-2013, 01:10 PM
 
Location: Cali
3,904 posts, read 6,215,184 times
Reputation: 2224
Quote:
Originally Posted by JanND View Post
These are my opinions.....I feel the opposite. I think asking questions in a mocking way makes Martinez look like an egomaniac, and I believe his ongoing diatribes and mocking has/will sabotage his plan to get her convicted of murder in the first and his ultimate goal of a death penalty verdict.

How can you mock witnesses and take jibes and expect other things you say to hold the seriousness that this case requires. A death penalty verdict is taken very seriously. Prove or disprove the statements of witnesses. His ongoing jibes have probably offended many of the jurors on some level by now...Just look at the threads here....

Look at the juror getting thrown out....The other jurors take having to make this decision very seriously, and Martinez rants cause too much emotional response, detracts and takes the focus off the actual and factual evidence of both sides in a big way. She'll get second...

CarolinaWoman
I have always heard that too ... act of passion. This type of murder is not normal unless there is a powerful amount of rage and anger. It just boils down to one thing Travis Alexander died a horrible death at the hands of Jodi Arias and I sincerely hope the jury sees this and finds her guilty in the first.[/quote]

This is exactly how the victim of domestic abuse fits in this case.[/quote]

Very good post JanND!
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Closed Thread

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > True Crime
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top