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Old 01-16-2013, 07:06 AM
 
Location: US
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I have to wonder if the drug abuse would have affected his brain so that it really wouldn't matter. It would only take some stressful situation to trigger him. I know a couple adults that were adopted and some multi adoption families. These kids were adopted as babies. Not a lot is known about the biological parents at least to me. One family in paticular stands out. 2 men (the boys). One grew up to be a successful professor. The other went through a spell of drinking problems,played in bands and has trouble staying employed (very emotional but sober now). Both were raised the same way and their mom was amazingly sweet. The drinker had a stressful personal event in his teens that he thinks started him down the drinking path where the professor did not.

Now these people didn't kill anyone of course but its just a small example of how sometimes you can only hope for the best in even the best situation.


I think we need to stop acting like 10 year olds are babies anymore after so much reading this past week.
There have been a lot of adult acts by juveniles these days and they need to be locked up and away just as an adult would for violent offenses.
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Old 01-16-2013, 07:33 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Opsimathia View Post


I think we need to stop acting like 10 year olds are babies anymore after so much reading this past week.
There have been a lot of adult acts by juveniles these days and they need to be locked up and away just as an adult would for violent offenses.

That is a very strong opinion. I remember being ten years old. I was thrilled on my birthday that I had achieved double digits. I used to read a lot of Laura Ingalls Wilder books and got in trouble for throwing snowballs at cars once. I punched a kid who picked on me once.

I didn't shoot anyone, but my dad wasn't an abusive neo-nazi, either. I do believe there are cases where a young person should be locked up for the safety of others, but where do we draw the line? Ten years old? Eight years old? Six years old?

It's an interesting topic (though sad) and I would like to read more thoughts on it.
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Old 01-16-2013, 08:42 AM
 
Location: US
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Originally Posted by NLVgal View Post
That is a very strong opinion. I remember being ten years old. I was thrilled on my birthday that I had achieved double digits. I used to read a lot of Laura Ingalls Wilder books and got in trouble for throwing snowballs at cars once. I punched a kid who picked on me once.

I didn't shoot anyone, but my dad wasn't an abusive neo-nazi, either. I do believe there are cases where a young person should be locked up for the safety of others, but where do we draw the line? Ten years old? Eight years old? Six years old?

It's an interesting topic (though sad) and I would like to read more thoughts on it.

There is no line to me when it comes to things that you can not recover from that were purposefully done.

Exceptions just like everyone else: accidents, self-defense, insanity reasons etc.

Just google: "Kids who kill"

Kids at 10 and even younger join street gangs everyday too.


If your child doesn't start to show empathy by age two...you better keep an eye on that.
They are having social developmental issues that will cause problems later in life if it continues.

If you are physically capable of committing the crime you are physically capable of dealing with the consequences.

Who knows..maybe catching them as kids with a more therapy type prison would actually prevent these children from becoming full blown problems as adults. You had your parents to put you in check. Their parents....yeah..most of the time not the best.

Like how in the ohio rape case parents were all calling those POS "good boys"
Really?
Great parenting there...
Last time I checked "good boys" don't rape and/or murder.
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Old 01-17-2013, 12:00 AM
 
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What is interesting, years before we had all this "instant" information, I did actual research on young killers, and this was about 40 years ago...there was hardly any information, because there were hardly any cases! Now, google, "Young Killers", and pages of cases, will come up. Pages and pages.

That is the issue. What has changed? Society? How?
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Old 01-17-2013, 03:42 AM
 
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He can't go to jail right?
Hope not.............if he thought his dad was bad lol

"If you are physically capable of committing the crime you are physically capable of dealing with the consequences."

I don't agree with that. Thats utilitarianistic and every case has exceptions. This is a perfectly good one. 10 year olds don't go to jail. Not even a 12 year old should. Nor should he go to juvy. Revolving door anyone?
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Old 01-17-2013, 08:30 AM
 
Location: US
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Originally Posted by MilksFavoriteCookie View Post
He can't go to jail right?
Hope not.............if he thought his dad was bad lol

"If you are physically capable of committing the crime you are physically capable of dealing with the consequences."

I don't agree with that. Thats utilitarianistic and every case has exceptions. This is a perfectly good one. 10 year olds don't go to jail. Not even a 12 year old should. Nor should he go to juvy. Revolving door anyone?

Murder of James Bulger - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

" He was abducted, tortured and murdered by two ten-year-old boys, "

"The pair were found guilty on 24 November 1993, making them the youngest convicted murderers in modern English history. They were sentenced to custody until they reached adulthood, initially until the age of 18, and were released on a lifelong licence in June 2001. In 2010 Venables was returned to prison for violating the terms of his licence of release."

Lionel Tate - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
^^14

Probation in assault case for man who killed at 11 | Fox News
^^11 years old

9 years for killing a guy served as a kid and then gets out and makes more trouble.
Adult sentence - 2nd degree = 15+, 1st degree = Life without parole.

Time span of his crimes happened shortly after release. System as is does not work.
I noted the exceptions to be the same as they are for adults.

Recently some 12 year old killed a man carjacking him.
You want THAT on your streets? I don't and I wouldn't want it around other kids either. We don't need any more Mary Bells.
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Old 01-17-2013, 08:45 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Jaded View Post
The story of a Neo-Nazi dad who was killed by his 10-year-old son in 2010 is a tragedy. There were early warning signs that the child would have an abusive and neglectful upbringing. He was born to a mother who used drugs during her pregnancy and into a family who spewed hate on a daily basis, and a father who repeatedly abused the mother and his children. He was born to his parents when they were in their early 20s (father was 22).

Boy, 12, guilty of murder in death of neo-Nazi dad - U.S. News

Given this young boy's environment at birth and into his early years with is bio-parents, wouldn't he have had a better life had social services removed him and his sister from their home before this tradegy occured? Which kind of parenting yields the best results - Nurture (not bound by biology) or Nature (bound by biology)?

I say "nurture" trumps "nature" all of the time and that "nature" alone does not make the best parents for children.
Well, you can't choose one over the other! We all live in a bag of chemicals, and we will not develop without some form of nurturance. Without the bag of chemicals there is nothing TO nuture, but even the finest chemical bag out there can get fcrewed up if you try hard enough with lousy nuturance. This family sounds a lot like the early matrix of good old GG Allin -- now there was a one-man crime wave. This kid seems to have started out, though, by doing a bit of a public service and all with a view towards protecting his family. That's a heavy burden for such a young kid to carry, but he may decide in the very long run that he did do the right thing.
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Old 01-17-2013, 02:19 PM
 
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Originally Posted by sheena12 View Post
I am not crying about the death of this individual. I feel more sympathy for the boy.
I know! How sad was his environment that even in death most of us here are drawn to the boy as the true victim.
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Old 01-17-2013, 02:22 PM
 
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If this kid had enough prenatal exposure to alcohol or other drugs he could have a serious developmental disability as a result. But if he was raised by hate-filled rug abusers you might get exactly the same effect as FAS: no sense of right and wrong, no ability to connect actions to consequences. he should have a sense of morality by age 10 and by age 12 he should know better than to go around killing people. But in this family, killing the old man may have been the best possible option.
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Old 01-17-2013, 02:37 PM
 
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I do think parenting is the key. I do not like the idea of lumping mental illness with all of this violence commited by young people either. Very popular in the media now after Shady Hook. I also do not like the notion that violent video games, movies, etc. are creating murderers. This is not the case all the time.

Children need solid, sane, parenting. Anyone could be born with mental defects and there are definitely cases of a "bad seed" but generally speaking, we are heavily influenced by our environment.

Once we accept as a society that crazy, deranged, psychopaths come in all shapes, sizes, and from all socioeconomic backgrounds, then perhaps we can move towards identifying them in their youth and preventing them from becoming worse in adulthood.

But in this case, the boy has my sympathy and support. He didn't kill anyone else except his perpetrator.
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