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Old 11-03-2015, 02:27 PM
 
Location: 39 20' 59"N / 75 30' 53"W
16,085 posts, read 23,917,203 times
Reputation: 17987

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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Mysterious Benefactor View Post
We know she was mentally ill, but don't know all of the conditions she was suffering from. And therein lies the real problem. Everyone wants to make sense out of this case, but mental illness often manifests itself in bizarre behavior that simply doesn't make sense. There's no rational reason for Elisa to have climbed alone to the roof and into that tank, so many just don't want to believe, despite the evidence, that this is what happened.
Who doesn't like a good mystery despite the evidence. Cecil Hotels full of intrigue and notoriety. 'American Horror Story Hotel', current seasons based on the hotel.

Adding to the above; just a guess...schizoaffective disorder.

Schizoaffective bipolar disorder is a lifelong disease. The onset of the disease is usually in early adulthood. If left untreated, the patient is highly likely to either commit suicide, self harm, or at times even cause mortal harm to people around.
What is Schizoaffective Disorder Bipolar Type (Symptoms, Diagnosis, Treatment)? | Cure Talk

 
Old 11-03-2015, 05:21 PM
 
Location: So Ca
15,794 posts, read 15,041,663 times
Reputation: 13728
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mathguy View Post
So sorry, bi-polar....but you knew that.
Big difference between bipolar disorder and schizophrenia.

Quote:
For people to come along and state that a person wouldn't have climbed up on the roof etc. as if the person were acting normally is flawed reasoning.
Did anyone state that? The point was that it is unusual that she could actually find the (supposedly unmarked and unsigned) roof, scale a huge water tank resting on a concrete block by herself, open the lid, and somehow jump or fall into the tank.

Notice #34 and #35 in the Motion for Summary Judgement, below. If the maintenance worker had to go through all that to check the water tank, and he had keys, could deactivate the alarm, and had access to a ladder, how could a 115 pound female do all of that? (And if she were having a manic episode, how did she have the presence of mind to remove all her clothing while she was drowning in the tank?)

Too much conflicting data. Including the tops of the water tanks. I haven't read anything that states that the lids of the tanks were light weight, which was another poster's opinion.

https://86a5b638-a-62cb3a1a-s-sites....attredirects=0
 
Old 11-03-2015, 08:55 PM
 
Location: The Pacific Northwest
6,015 posts, read 6,378,788 times
Reputation: 8287
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Mysterious Benefactor View Post
We know she was mentally ill, but don't know all of the conditions she was suffering from. And therein lies the real problem. Everyone wants to make sense out of this case, but mental illness often manifests itself in bizarre behavior that simply doesn't make sense. There's no rational reason for Elisa to have climbed alone to the roof and into that tank, so many just don't want to believe, despite the evidence, that this is what happened.
I think it is exceedingly unlikely that this was a suicide or an accidental drowning. Even if she were to have been able to open that small door at the top, wouldn't have it been evident if she had? It's not like those doors are opened and shut frequently... the news report said they hadn't been touched in years. Wouldn't there be evidence of tampering? And even if she had, still doesn't explain how she was able to access that roof without setting off the alarms, how she was able to climb into the 8 foot tank which is actually more like 13-15 feet when counting the pedestal. If she used a ladder, how did she get rid of it? And it also doesn't explain why she was naked and why her clothes were never found. There are too many facts in this case that degrade the theory that this was a suicide due to a drug-induced fit or a mental breakdown, and suggest instead lucid, collected, and premeditated action.
 
Old 11-04-2015, 05:08 AM
 
1,562 posts, read 1,139,844 times
Reputation: 2686
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluefox View Post
I think it is exceedingly unlikely that this was a suicide or an accidental drowning. Even if she were to have been able to open that small door at the top, wouldn't have it been evident if she had? It's not like those doors are opened and shut frequently... the news report said they hadn't been touched in years. Wouldn't there be evidence of tampering? And even if she had, still doesn't explain how she was able to access that roof without setting off the alarms, how she was able to climb into the 8 foot tank which is actually more like 13-15 feet when counting the pedestal. If she used a ladder, how did she get rid of it? And it also doesn't explain why she was naked and why her clothes were never found. There are too many facts in this case that degrade the theory that this was a suicide due to a drug-induced fit or a mental breakdown, and suggest instead lucid, collected, and premeditated action.
Let's be clear on the facts.

-There was "evidence of tampering" in that the lid was open when the maintenance worker found her body.

- As was covered earlier, the roof was easily accessible from the fire escape at the end of the hall; neither locked, nor alarmed.

-Her clothes were found in the tank. She likely removed them so she could tread the water more easily, either before or after climbing in. She was trying to stay alive.

-There was no theory of suicide. The investigation determined this to be an accidental drowning.

This would not have been a 13-15 foot climb. Reaching the pedestal and getting on the platform would've been easy. This photo better illustrates the true height of the tanks from the platform.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-hgh5K4AWUO...1ver+(007).jpg

It wouldn't be difficult for someone young and fit to get on that tank.
 
Old 11-04-2015, 06:04 AM
 
Location: So Ca
15,794 posts, read 15,041,663 times
Reputation: 13728
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Mysterious Benefactor View Post
Let's be clear on the facts. -There was "evidence of tampering" in that the lid was open when the maintenance worker found her body.
Link?

Quote:
- As was covered earlier, the roof was easily accessible from the fire escape at the end of the hall; neither locked, nor alarmed.
Why so much conflicting information on this? See multiple posts on this thread.

Quote:
-Her clothes were found in the tank. She likely removed them so she could tread the water more easily, either before or after climbing in.
Probably after, due to the weight. Did she remove them herself during her manic episode?

Quote:
This would not have been a 13-15 foot climb. Reaching the pedestal and getting on the platform would've been easy.
Doesn't look like it from this photo: https://fellowshipofminds.files.word...ter-tanks1.jpg
Or this one: http://i.imgur.com/9a94Kaj.png

Too much conflicting info. Even the Wikiipedia article that another person posted stated that all four water tanks were 4 X 8 ft, propped up on concrete blocks.

Last edited by CA4Now; 11-04-2015 at 06:19 AM.. Reason: pics
 
Old 11-04-2015, 06:55 AM
 
1,562 posts, read 1,139,844 times
Reputation: 2686
Quote:
Originally Posted by CA4Now View Post
Link?
Uhh, from the links that you provided? This one from 3 post ago. https://86a5b638-a-62cb3a1a-s-sites....attredirects=0

And your other one from page three of this thread. Elisa Lam Drowned in a Water Tank Three Years Ago, but the Obsession with Her Death Lives On | VICE | United States
Quote:
Originally Posted by CA4Now View Post
Why so much conflicting information on this? See multiple posts on this thread.
There's no conflicting information from the investigation. There are conflicting theories that have been created based on speculation, not on facts. Most of it from blogs or Youtube, not credible sources. That's the problem.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CA4Now View Post
]Probably after, due to the weight. Did she remove them herself during her manic episode?
Could've been either. I don't see how it would make a difference in the finding.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CA4Now View Post
Doesn't look like it from this photo: https://fellowshipofminds.files.word...ter-tanks1.jpg
Or this one: http://i.imgur.com/9a94Kaj.png
Too much conflicting info. Even the Wikiipedia article that another person posted stated that all four water tanks were 4 X 8 ft, propped up on concrete blocks.
The pedestal is 3-4 feet from the ground. The platform another 2-3 feet up from that; this is clear from the photos. A child could reach that platform with ease.
 
Old 11-04-2015, 03:57 PM
 
2,321 posts, read 2,094,029 times
Reputation: 3835
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Mysterious Benefactor View Post
Let's be clear on the facts.

-There was "evidence of tampering" in that the lid was open when the maintenance worker found her body.

- As was covered earlier, the roof was easily accessible from the fire escape at the end of the hall; neither locked, nor alarmed.

-Her clothes were found in the tank. She likely removed them so she could tread the water more easily, either before or after climbing in. She was trying to stay alive.

-There was no theory of suicide. The investigation determined this to be an accidental drowning.


This would not have been a 13-15 foot climb. Reaching the pedestal and getting on the platform would've been easy. This photo better illustrates the true height of the tanks from the platform.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-hgh5K4AWUO...1ver+(007).jpg

It wouldn't be difficult for someone young and fit to get on that tank.
Regarding the bold above, do you think she might have wanted to go swimming? I'm sincere; it sounds flippant and glib, but it's a serious question. If she acted on her own but was having mental troubles, I suppose it's a possibility.

I still think someone was playing "games" with her of some sort and enticed her to go up there. She exhibited preening behavior in the elevator video, as women do when they are interacting with someone to whom they are attracted.
 
Old 11-04-2015, 06:50 PM
 
1,562 posts, read 1,139,844 times
Reputation: 2686
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tobiashen View Post
Regarding the bold above, do you think she might have wanted to go swimming? I'm sincere; it sounds flippant and glib, but it's a serious question. If she acted on her own but was having mental troubles, I suppose it's a possibility.

I still think someone was playing "games" with her of some sort and enticed her to go up there. She exhibited preening behavior in the elevator video, as women do when they are interacting with someone to whom they are attracted.
You're a regular contributor here, so I can take you at your word that you're not being flippant. But in all seriousness, no, I don't think she wanted to go swimming. I think she was in the midst of a manic episode and in serious fear for her life. That's what I see on the video. I think she fled the elevator looking for somewhere to hide and eventually made it to the roof. In her mind, the tank was an ideal place to hide, not to swim.

Describe for me specifically this "preening behavior" that you're talking about. I've watched the video a number of times and didn't pick up on that. I see paranoia, physical agitation, hallucinations; all classic symptoms of a psychotic break. I see no indication that she was actually interacting with anyone.
 
Old 11-04-2015, 07:19 PM
 
Location: NW AR
2,438 posts, read 2,174,185 times
Reputation: 2265
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Mysterious Benefactor View Post
You're a regular contributor here, so I can take you at your word that you're not being flippant. But in all seriousness, no, I don't think she wanted to go swimming. I think she was in the midst of a manic episode and in serious fear for her life. That's what I see on the video. I think she fled the elevator looking for somewhere to hide and eventually made it to the roof. In her mind, the tank was an ideal place to hide, not to swim.

Describe for me specifically this "preening behavior" that you're talking about. I've watched the video a number of times and didn't pick up on that. I see paranoia, physical agitation, hallucinations; all classic symptoms of a psychotic break. I see no indication that she was actually interacting with anyone.
I've watched the video and she actually starts freaking out " a little too early" on the elevator because she looks pretty weird at the buttons before she ever pushes them, as if expecting the elevator buttons not to work in the first place. She jams the elevator on purpose really and knows completely before punching all the numbers that it will jam the computer.

And then she hem-has around after she's jammed it, like some supernatural energy has shown up. She is putting on a show.

Personally, what makes the most sense here, is that she jammed the computer in the elevator on purpose hoping the maintenance man would show up and maybe he did just that.

She jumps back and forth while waiving her hands through the air as if expecting to feel something in the air. Everything I have read on this action recently displays "playfulness" and I have to agree.
 
Old 11-04-2015, 08:45 PM
 
Location: The Pacific Northwest
6,015 posts, read 6,378,788 times
Reputation: 8287
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Mysterious Benefactor View Post
Let's be clear on the facts.

-There was "evidence of tampering" in that the lid was open when the maintenance worker found her body.

- As was covered earlier, the roof was easily accessible from the fire escape at the end of the hall; neither locked, nor alarmed.

-Her clothes were found in the tank. She likely removed them so she could tread the water more easily, either before or after climbing in. She was trying to stay alive.

-There was no theory of suicide. The investigation determined this to be an accidental drowning.

This would not have been a 13-15 foot climb. Reaching the pedestal and getting on the platform would've been easy. This photo better illustrates the true height of the tanks from the platform.
T
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-hgh5K4AWUO...1ver+(007).jpg

It wouldn't be difficult for someone young and fit to get on that tank.
That grown man standing there on the highest pedestal still would have had to completely extend his arms to even touch the top of that tank. I'm not sure how tall Elisa is, from photos it looks maybe 5'4-5'6 at the tallest. I am really having trouble believing she could have just hoisted herself up there without some type of ladder or large stool.

With regard to the link you cited:

https://86a5b638-a-62cb3a1a-s-sites....attredirects=0


Did not see exactly where they said that she climbed in through the small opening. I do, however, see on item 20 that "to access the tanks, someone would have to climb a ladder up the platform, and then squeeze through the tanks and plumbing equipment to reach another narrow ladder and climb up the side of the 10 foot tall tank. Alternatively, someone could theoretically access the water tank by climbing up to the top of an elevator utility room and jumping down upon the water tank from above."

I also see on item 39 that the "LAPD eventually concluded their investigation of Elisa's death but could not conclusively determine how she reached the roof or accessed the tank".

So I'm quite interested where you acquired conclusive evidence that a child could climb up the tanks. Or that the alarm wasn't working. I would think if it were that easy for a person to access the water tanks, it would be immediately apparent and reflected in the news articles, but none of the articles mentions that. The latched doors that you keep referring to is also noticeably absent from the stipulated facts from the lawsuit.

Last edited by Bluefox; 11-04-2015 at 08:59 PM..
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