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Old 11-04-2015, 09:00 PM
 
Location: So Ca
15,836 posts, read 15,067,863 times
Reputation: 13778

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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Mysterious Benefactor View Post
Uhh, from the links that you provided?
Reading too quickly; sorry, that was meant for the post above yours, by Bluefox, about no evidence of tampering with the lid.

Quote:
There's no conflicting information from the investigation. There are conflicting theories that have been created based on speculation, not on facts. Most of it from blogs or Youtube, not credible sources.
The guy on the Brain Scratch video clips has done a lot of research (and he's actually been to and checked out the Cecil Hotel). Sorry you think that if someone posts their findings on YouTube, it's not credible.

Quote:
The pedestal is 3-4 feet from the ground. The platform another 2-3 feet up from that; this is clear from the photos. A child could reach that platform with ease.
I could not disagree more. Where was her ladder? From the Motion for Summary Judgement, "The tanks are covered by heavy metal lids that are approximately 18" X 18."

 
Old 11-04-2015, 09:13 PM
 
2,502 posts, read 1,551,698 times
Reputation: 5349
That elevator video is one of the creepiest short videos I've ever seen; it's straight out of a horror flick. That being said, while I initially thought that EL was hiding in the elevator from someone unseen, after seeing it many more times it really looks like she may have been the only one there.

Yes, she was acting strange - she was acting like someone who's on drugs and/or someone who's mentally ill. Weird....
 
Old 11-04-2015, 09:28 PM
 
1,562 posts, read 1,141,335 times
Reputation: 2686
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluefox View Post
That grown man standing there on the highest pedestal still would have had to completely extend his arms to even touch the top of that tank. I'm not sure how tall Elisa is, from photos it looks maybe 5'4-5'6 at the tallest. I am really having trouble believing she could have just hoisted herself up there without some type of ladder or large stool.

With regard to the link you cited:

https://86a5b638-a-62cb3a1a-s-sites....attredirects=0


Did not see exactly where they said that she climbed in through the small opening. I do, however, see on item 20 that "to access the tanks, someone would have to climb a ladder up the platform, and then squeeze through the tanks and plumbing equipment to reach another narrow ladder and climb up the side of the 10 foot tall tank. Alternatively, someone could theoretically access the water tank by climbing up to the top of an elevator utility room and jumping down upon the water tank from above."

I also see on item 39 that the "LAPD eventually concluded their investigation of Elisa's death but could not conclusively determine how she reached the roof or accessed the tank". I see that item 45 states that "between January 28, 2013 and February 19, 2013 the alarm to the roof top access door was functioning properly."

So I'm quite interested where you acquired conclusive evidence that a child could climb up the tanks. Or that the alarm wasn't working. I would think if it were that easy for a person to access the water tanks, it would be immediately apparent and reflected in the news articles, but none of the articles mentions that. However, I'm actually more interested in any links you have that conclusively prove that the alarmed door was not locked and the alarm was not set during the time frame where Elisa accessed that area.
The link was in reference to the fact that that the lid was open when the hotel worker found Elisa's body. Note #34 & #35.

From the photos, the most casual observer can see that the pedestal is no more than 3-4 ft high and the platform another 2-3 feet higher; i.e. low enough for even a child to climb upon.

And your quote here brings up another interesting question:
"to access the tanks, someone would have to climb a ladder up the platform, and then squeeze through the tanks and plumbing equipment to reach another narrow ladder and climb up the side of the 10 foot tall tank." This "another narrow ladder" seems to be in reference to a ladder that is permanently fixed to the tank(as most of them have), or was at least known to be there. What ladder are they talking about?

With regard to the alarm, please pay closer attention to what I've actually said. I've made no mention of the alarm "not working" or "not set". In fact, as I stated, I think it's more likely that Elisa accessed the roof by climbing up the fire escape, where there was no alarm.
 
Old 11-04-2015, 09:53 PM
 
1,562 posts, read 1,141,335 times
Reputation: 2686
Quote:
Originally Posted by CA4Now View Post
Reading too quickly; sorry, that was meant for the post above yours, by Bluefox, about no evidence of tampering with the lid.



The guy on the Brain Scratch video clips has done a lot of research (and he's actually been to and checked out the Cecil Hotel). Sorry you think that if someone posts their findings on YouTube, it's not credible.



I could not disagree more. Where was her ladder? From the Motion for Summary Judgement, "The tanks are covered by heavy metal lids that are approximately 18" X 18.
"
Are you not following me here? A person who is 5'4" doesn't need a ladder to climb upon a 4' high pedestal.

OK, so the lids were even smaller and lighter than I presumed; only 18x18. That bolsters my point. Do you realize how thick an 18x18 lid would have to be in order to be too heavy for her to lift? That's not what we see in the photos. These lids were not unmanageable for Elisa.
 
Old 11-05-2015, 03:23 AM
 
2,321 posts, read 2,096,285 times
Reputation: 3835
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Mysterious Benefactor View Post
You're a regular contributor here, so I can take you at your word that you're not being flippant. But in all seriousness, no, I don't think she wanted to go swimming. I think she was in the midst of a manic episode and in serious fear for her life. That's what I see on the video. I think she fled the elevator looking for somewhere to hide and eventually made it to the roof. In her mind, the tank was an ideal place to hide, not to swim.
Thank you for taking me at my word. It does sound reasonable that someone with mental illness could have had a manic (since we know she was bipolar) episode and thought someone was chasing her -- or was chasing her -- and she felt she could hide. Maybe you're on to something, but I'm thinking she's being chased because of the preening behavior outlined below.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Mysterious Benefactor View Post
Describe for me specifically this "preening behavior" that you're talking about. I've watched the video a number of times and didn't pick up on that. I see paranoia, physical agitation, hallucinations; all classic symptoms of a psychotic break. I see no indication that she was actually interacting with anyone.
Dr. G. Jack Brown is a body language expert and a physician. He runs the website that explains the preening behavior here: Body Language Success: Search results for Elisa Lam

Ask any woman, and I'm one of them: We touch our hair, neck, face area a great deal when we're interacting with someone to whom we're attracted or "like." I think she was tricked and followed up there.
 
Old 11-05-2015, 05:05 AM
 
Location: 39 20' 59"N / 75 30' 53"W
16,085 posts, read 23,937,560 times
Reputation: 17992
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tobiashen View Post


Dr. G. Jack Brown is a body language expert and a physician. He runs the website that explains the preening behavior here: Body Language Success: Search results for Elisa Lam

Ask any woman, and I'm one of them: We touch our hair, neck, face area a great deal when we're interacting with someone to whom we're attracted or "like." I think she was tricked and followed up there.
Thanks for the body language link; interesting.

Agree, and quick response to the post for Mysterious Benefactor.....Vulnerability would increase for a woman living in an unfamiliar city with apparent disorders. On the flip side, having experienced more than one person in the thrust of episodes, alarming. Their reactions and body language the same as if they're actually encountering another person; whether real or figment of imagination.
 
Old 11-05-2015, 05:44 AM
 
1,562 posts, read 1,141,335 times
Reputation: 2686
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tobiashen View Post
Thank you for taking me at my word. It does sound reasonable that someone with mental illness could have had a manic (since we know she was bipolar) episode and thought someone was chasing her -- or was chasing her -- and she felt she could hide. Maybe you're on to something, but I'm thinking she's being chased because of the preening behavior outlined below.



Dr. G. Jack Brown is a body language expert and a physician. He runs the website that explains the preening behavior here: Body Language Success: Search results for Elisa Lam

Ask any woman, and I'm one of them: We touch our hair, neck, face area a great deal when we're interacting with someone to whom we're attracted or "like." I think she was tricked and followed up there.
Thank you for the link. This is an interesting analysis. Watching the video again with all of it in mind, I can understand your question. There does seem to be a playful nature to her actions which contradicts the idea that she was in any real fear. I think you may be onto something. It's quite possible she did go to the roof for fun.

The problem with introducing another person into the scenario is the total lack of evidence that anyone else was present. The "conversation" at the elevator appears to be imaginary. All of the witnesses who saw her reported that she was alone. No indication there was ever anyone else on the roof. And I think it's important to note that the LAPD assumed foul play from the beginning and investigated this case as a homicide. Even with that assumption, they could find no evidence of another person involved.
 
Old 11-05-2015, 06:02 AM
 
1,562 posts, read 1,141,335 times
Reputation: 2686
For those who doubt she could've gotten atop the tank alone, consider this photo and an alternative route.

https://s3-eu5.ixquick.com/cgi-bin/s...7f4655f6145b19

Is there any reason she couldn't have climbed the ladder to the second roof and jumped down onto the tanks?
 
Old 11-05-2015, 06:19 AM
 
Location: So Ca
15,836 posts, read 15,067,863 times
Reputation: 13778
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Mysterious Benefactor View Post
Are you not following me here? A person who is 5'4" doesn't need a ladder to climb upon a 4' high pedestal.
The pedestal....do mean the concrete block that the tanks are resting on? How did she get up the side of the water tank? If the maintenance man had to use a ladder to look into the tank, where was the one she used to get to the top of it and jump, fall, or get pushed in?

Quote:
OK, so the lids were even smaller and lighter than I presumed; only 18x18.
Where do you have information that they were "lighter"?

I agree with the below:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluefox View Post
That grown man standing there on the highest pedestal still would have had to completely extend his arms to even touch the top of that tank. I am really having trouble believing she could have just hoisted herself up there without some type of ladder or large stool.

I also see on item 39 that the "LAPD eventually concluded their investigation of Elisa's death but could not conclusively determine how she reached the roof or accessed the tank".

So I'm quite interested where you acquired conclusive evidence that a child could climb up the tanks. I would think if it were that easy for a person to access the water tanks, it would be immediately apparent and reflected in the news articles, but none of the articles mentions that.

Last edited by CA4Now; 11-05-2015 at 06:40 AM..
 
Old 11-05-2015, 07:26 AM
 
Location: 39 20' 59"N / 75 30' 53"W
16,085 posts, read 23,937,560 times
Reputation: 17992
I'll play devils advocate; for those of you who believe foul play were involved, what are your thoughts on why investigators closed Elisa Lams case?
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