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Um, no. Zimmerman was bigger than Martin and despite your optical illusion clothing theories he was somehow confirmed to look bigger as well by a perfectly sound witness.
Zimmerman was heavier, Martin was taller and both were wearing heavy clothing which masked their bodies. Those are the facts and not theories. Two witnesses absolutely saw Martin on top of Zimmerman, you can't deny that. Not one person has conclusively said that Zimmerman was on top before the shooting. Two witnesses have said that after seeing pics of Martin as a little boy they believe Zimmerman was on top because the bigger guy was on top. One of those witnesses went on a PR tour with Crump.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kestrel88
One of their nicknames was "Slim" and the other wears 38 inch jeans and XL jackets.
Ignore the height/weight chart eh? Martin was normal weight for his height, Zimmerman was overweight but not obese. He wore size L shirt regardless of his jacket size. We have pictures of video from the police station showing Zimmerman looking normal sized.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kestrel88
I've already forgotten why you think that's important.
You have a conveniently selective memory. It's important because two witnesses claim the larger person was on top but were unable to give any other information than that. Two other witnesses absolutely confirmed Zimmerman was on the bottom. Either there's conflicting information (doubtful) or they identified Martin as the larger person.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kestrel88
If the jury considers that to be too big of an embellishment the whole "feared for my life" claim will quickly start to crumble.
Fear of great bodily harm is still relevant and that's all that's needed for self defense. Martin punched Zimmerman and then got on top of him. That's all Zimmerman needs to demonstrate the attack was ongoing.
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Originally Posted by Kestrel88
Martin was 100% on the offense?? Zimmerman has already testified that he killed Martin.
You have yet to prove Zimmerman shooting Martin was anything but defensive. You do realize that self defense is inherently a defensive act, right?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kestrel88
We know Zimmerman was pursuing Martin before they spoke
No we don't. Pursuit is a chase with intent to catch. Neither you, nor anyone else, has given a shred of proof to back up that Zimmerman attempted to catch and detain Martin. Until you do it's just wishful thinking.
Remember, we're talking about what's provable in court and not what you fantasize happened.
Not one person has conclusively said that Zimmerman was on top before the shooting.
Not conclusive enough for you anyway.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grunchlk
Two witnesses have said that after seeing pics of Martin as a little boy they believe Zimmerman was on top because the bigger guy was on top. One of those witnesses went on a PR tour with Crump.
Give me a f'n break. NOBODY has said anything about "after seeing pictures of Martin as a little boy..." There was NEVER a time when the only pictures of Martin in the media were him as a 12 year old. No witness saw the young pics without the older ones. That story became bigger than the one about Zimmerman not being arrested for crying out loud. It became so big that to this day, when an online article shows a picture of a 16 year old Martin, several nut-jobs will STILL call him 12 in that picture. (I say 16 of course because he was only 17 for three weeks.)
Oh, and the "PR tour" means what? That the witness has still only seen just one young picture of Martin? Please.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grunchlk
You have a conveniently selective memory. It's important because two witnesses claim the larger person was on top but were unable to give any other information than that. Two other witnesses absolutely confirmed Zimmerman was on the bottom. Either there's conflicting information (doubtful) or they identified Martin as the larger person.
Ah, I forgot that you need Martin to be smaller to make "the larger person was on top" witnesses support your theories. One witness clearly called Zimmerman the larger of the two and Hispanic. Why does that carry no weight with you? Never mind that enough people said they saw two people wrestling for everybody to be right when it comes to who was on top.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grunchlk
Fear of great bodily harm is still relevant and that's all that's needed for self defense. Martin punched Zimmerman and then got on top of him. That's all Zimmerman needs to demonstrate the attack was ongoing.
The same could be said for Martin. He was in fear of great bodily harm when the larger man who had been following him was on top of him. Unlike Zimmerman, Martin can't mess up his defense with alternating (and impossible) versions of what took place that night.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grunchlk
You have yet to prove Zimmerman shooting Martin was anything but defensive. You do realize that self defense is inherently a defensive act, right?
When true it is. When it's made up to stay out of prison it's most certainly not.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grunchlk
No we don't. Pursuit is a chase with intent to catch. Neither you, nor anyone else, has given a shred of proof to back up that Zimmerman attempted to catch and detain Martin. Until you do it's just wishful thinking.
Zimmerman is the one wishing all he did before killing Martin was pursue him. We know witnesses say one was chasing the other and that Zimmerman isn't claiming he was the one being chased. We know that Zimmerman was lying about what he was doing behind the buildings. We know he lied on video about where the altercation even took place. We know he lied about getting his head bashed into the concrete for a full minute, if at all. We know he lied about having a working flashlight while he was in that dark area behind the buildings. And we all know he thought he was following a bad guy who he would soon kill him. If that's not proof of pursuit it's still a whole lot of lying about what happened two minutes before killing a teenager. Again, he would have been better off just admitting to pursuing Martin before the fight than being busted on all of these points.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grunchlk
Remember, we're talking about what's provable in court and not what you fantasize happened.
If a jury doesn't believe the defendant's account of what happened then that defendant will soon be fantasizing about not being in prison.
Kestrel88,
Thank you for all your research and excellent memory in responding about this case. Martin is not here to defend himself and there are so many who are twisting truth and trying to spin scenarios that make Zimmerman appear oh, so, angelic.
I am amazed at how even handed and unshakable you are. Wish I had your abilities.
I think one of the things that stoked this case last year was when GZ and his wife, lied under oath to the Judge. I do believe that up until that point, Zimmerman had a better than good chance of beating this rap. Prosecutors and police had already tossed and turned over evidence and Zimmerman's statements, and a lot of it was pretty conflicting. Plus, nobody really had any trust in Zimmerman anymore, he lost that valuable asset.
An interesting tidbit turned up not long ago. A forensic company looked at Trayvon's cell phone. Amazing what they can get from a cell phone. Turns out that particular day, stuff was missing. I believe it was during that time period, that the defense asked for more time for the trial, which was moved up to November.
Kestrel88,
Thank you for all your research and excellent memory in responding about this case. Martin is not here to defend himself and there are so many who are twisting truth and trying to spin scenarios that make Zimmerman appear oh, so, angelic.
I am amazed at how even handed and unshakable you are. Wish I had your abilities.
Kestrel88,
Thank you for all your research and excellent memory in responding about this case. Martin is not here to defend himself and there are so many who are twisting truth and trying to spin scenarios that make Zimmerman appear oh, so, angelic.
I am amazed at how even handed and unshakable you are. Wish I had your abilities.
Again, thanks.
True, someone needs to stand up and combat the lies that camp zim are constantly producing.
Much of what is written here are arguments that won't even come up in trial so it can't be a fun read for those not doing the arguing. Thanks for putting up with us.
I went to the scene of the crime tonight to double check a few things: how clear the house numbers were that GZ was supposedly looking for, how clear the street names were on the main road that he supposedly didn't know the name of, and how far away the fight actually took place from where he said it did. I left feeling almost sorry for Zimmerman and his inability to tell the truth.
Last edited by Kestrel88; 03-18-2013 at 12:46 AM..
Much of what is written here are arguments that won't even come up in trial so it can't be a fun read for those not doing the arguing. Thanks for putting up with us.
I went to the scene of the crime tonight to double check a few things: how clear the house numbers were that GZ was supposedly looking for, how clear the street names were on the main road that he supposedly didn't know the name of, and how far away the fight actually took place from where he said it did. I left feeling almost sorry for Zimmerman and his inability to tell the truth.
Even if he did not see the numbers/names on the sides of the houses, Hell he lives there and patrols the area and therefore should know the place like the back of his hand
George Zimmerman's attorneys have again been denied the right to question under oath the attorney for Trayvon Martin's family.
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George Zimmerman cannot question Trayvon Martin
