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Old 12-25-2013, 04:07 PM
 
Location: Minnesota
400 posts, read 615,482 times
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He was recently sentenced to a sex offenders prison located in Yorkshire, England for 29 (+ 6 probation) years as a pedophile. He avoided going to trial to avoid the publicity, but that's clearly backfired on him as his band lost prophets has dissolved and his fans are shocked and horrified.

I watched some of his interviews on You Tube and he doesn't come across as creepy or depraved. And his band's been so successful over the past 15 years. He comes across charming and funny and intelligent in most of his interviews, which is the complete opposite of who he really is.

I find it hard to believe none of his band mates suspected his deviant pedophiliac behavior, esp. since they at one point staged an intervention with him so he would seek treatment for his zealous drug and alcohol abuse. Supposedly his band mates didn't sleep in the same hotel as he did while they toured, and after being based in L.A., they all married women from the U.S. and had families whereas Watkins chose not to.

Considering Watkins rock n roll lifestyle of drugs and obsessed female fans bombarding him 24/7 via online chat forums, I think he must have been overwhelmed to the point where he gave in to his tendencies that were heightened by the alcohol and drug intake he did on a regular basis. One of Watkins' statements about his online chat was that he did it while "off his head" on drugs, and can't see why people would take those online chats seriously. Were his online cats taken out of context, as a bored rock star displaying online bravado while high on drugs, or were they all huge red flags to one man's sexual depravity hidden away from his adoring public of music fans?

Then there's his lack of empathy for what he's done to his victims, when he referred to his situation as "megaLOLZ" from a phone call in prison before the judge sentenced him, and didn't see why everyone's so upset. Then he resorted to say that whomever kills him while he's in prison will become a famous person like he is. Watkins acknowledged that he is a marked man for life based on his depraved behavior.

Some say that pedophilia is a sexual orientation that's genetically predisposed like being gay or being straight, or what color your skin or hair turns out to be. The other side of the argument is that it's created by environment.

I tend to believe pedophilia has more a genetic predisposition rather than environmental one. Otherwise, it doesn't make sense to me why Watkins would suddenly become a sex offender out of nowhere with his young female fans. He dated celebrity women in the UK and supposedly never did anything abnormal with them (that the public knows of).

So, why did he do those horrible things to his victims when he had it all: money, fame, the celebrity lifestyle? Can drugs make someone a pedophile? Is pedophilia a sexual orientation that's genetically predisposed?

Like I said, it's shocking news about rock star Ian Watkins. You assume people in a celebrity role will not be depraved, will not abuse their adoring public for their own benefit. Look at other rock stars like Chris Martin from Coldplay. He's completely normal, married with 2 children. Same with Bono from U2, he's married with children and has had a huge, positive impact on the world.

BBC News - Lostprophets' Ian Watkins sentenced to 35 years over child sex offences
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Old 12-26-2013, 04:04 AM
 
1,767 posts, read 1,301,802 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Midwest Maven View Post
He was recently sentenced to a sex offenders prison located in Yorkshire, England for 29 (+ 6 probation) years as a pedophile. He avoided going to trial to avoid the publicity, but that's clearly backfired on him as his band lost prophets has dissolved and his fans are shocked and horrified.

I watched some of his interviews on You Tube and he doesn't come across as creepy or depraved. And his band's been so successful over the past 15 years. He comes across charming and funny and intelligent in most of his interviews, which is the complete opposite of who he really is.

I find it hard to believe none of his band mates suspected his deviant pedophiliac behavior, esp. since they at one point staged an intervention with him so he would seek treatment for his zealous drug and alcohol abuse. Supposedly his band mates didn't sleep in the same hotel as he did while they toured, and after being based in L.A., they all married women from the U.S. and had families whereas Watkins chose not to.

Considering Watkins rock n roll lifestyle of drugs and obsessed female fans bombarding him 24/7 via online chat forums, I think he must have been overwhelmed to the point where he gave in to his tendencies that were heightened by the alcohol and drug intake he did on a regular basis. One of Watkins' statements about his online chat was that he did it while "off his head" on drugs, and can't see why people would take those online chats seriously. Were his online cats taken out of context, as a bored rock star displaying online bravado while high on drugs, or were they all huge red flags to one man's sexual depravity hidden away from his adoring public of music fans?

Then there's his lack of empathy for what he's done to his victims, when he referred to his situation as "megaLOLZ" from a phone call in prison before the judge sentenced him, and didn't see why everyone's so upset. Then he resorted to say that whomever kills him while he's in prison will become a famous person like he is. Watkins acknowledged that he is a marked man for life based on his depraved behavior.

Some say that pedophilia is a sexual orientation that's genetically predisposed like being gay or being straight, or what color your skin or hair turns out to be. The other side of the argument is that it's created by environment.

I tend to believe pedophilia has more a genetic predisposition rather than environmental one. Otherwise, it doesn't make sense to me why Watkins would suddenly become a sex offender out of nowhere with his young female fans. He dated celebrity women in the UK and supposedly never did anything abnormal with them (that the public knows of).

So, why did he do those horrible things to his victims when he had it all: money, fame, the celebrity lifestyle? Can drugs make someone a pedophile? Is pedophilia a sexual orientation that's genetically predisposed?

Like I said, it's shocking news about rock star Ian Watkins. You assume people in a celebrity role will not be depraved, will not abuse their adoring public for their own benefit. Look at other rock stars like Chris Martin from Coldplay. He's completely normal, married with 2 children. Same with Bono from U2, he's married with children and has had a huge, positive impact on the world.

BBC News - Lostprophets' Ian Watkins sentenced to 35 years over child sex offences
No I don't think paedophilia is a genetic condition. Most people that do this obviously lack a conscience and I believe there are issues that stem back to their childhood. This person obviously has got away with shocking behaviour for a while and felt he was above the law. Unfortunately there are paedophiles in all walks of life. It is an aberration. Most people have an overwhelming instinct to protect children and I'm sure many would feel like killing paedophiles if they had a chance. The damage paedophiles do to children is enormous. They should at the very least be locked away from society permanently.

No I don't think drugs or alcohol will make anyone a paedophile. It is part of who you are and stems back to a dysfunctional childhood. Alcohol and drugs just lower people's inhibitions but will not cause you to do something that is completely against your instincts and moral code. People just use drugs and alcohol as an excuse. They do impair your judgement but you aren't going to even think about abusing children unless you have deviant tendencies to begin with.
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Old 12-26-2013, 07:12 AM
 
18,868 posts, read 16,034,540 times
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People know the difference between right and wrong. And make conscious choices, regarding addictive behavior, like using drugs and alcohol.

Anyone who even THINKS about using a child for sex, KNOWS this is wrong! And should immediately seek therapy, and intervention. Before exploiting a child. That is the morally correct thing to do. However, pedophiles justify their sick behavior with all kinds of excuses, rather than just owning it.

Narcissistic, thinking all about themselves, is rampant with child molesters...just like this guy, rather than think about what he did to kids, or showing any remorse, he thinks about himself, and how much danger he will have in prison...

The scariest thing? Child molesters, as people, are the nicest, funniest, people you would ever meet...that is their persona, and often how they seduce their young prey. They think they are great...of course, part of their personality disorder. And it is amazing to me, how many adults come to the defense of a child molester.
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Old 12-26-2013, 09:40 AM
 
460 posts, read 275,526 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Midwest Maven View Post
I watched some of his interviews on You Tube and he doesn't come across as creepy or depraved. And his band's been so successful over the past 15 years. He comes across charming and funny and intelligent in most of his interviews, which is the complete opposite of who he really is.
You never really know who people are. I've seen a long list of people I'd admired or never thought bad, but have criminal tendencies.
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Old 12-26-2013, 12:35 PM
 
Location: Minnesota
400 posts, read 615,482 times
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Originally Posted by Bernie20 View Post
No I don't think paedophilia is a genetic condition. Most people that do this obviously lack a conscience and I believe there are issues that stem back to their childhood. This person obviously has got away with shocking behaviour for a while and felt he was above the law. Unfortunately there are paedophiles in all walks of life. It is an aberration. Most people have an overwhelming instinct to protect children and I'm sure many would feel like killing paedophiles if they had a chance. The damage paedophiles do to children is enormous. They should at the very least be locked away from society permanently.

No I don't think drugs or alcohol will make anyone a paedophile. It is part of who you are and stems back to a dysfunctional childhood. Alcohol and drugs just lower people's inhibitions but will not cause you to do something that is completely against your instincts and moral code. People just use drugs and alcohol as an excuse. They do impair your judgement but you aren't going to even think about abusing children unless you have deviant tendencies to begin with.
I agree that paedophiliacs (pedophiliacs) lack a conscience and have psychological problems that stem from childhood. But what if there really is a genetic predisposition to paedophilia/pedophilia? What if someone is born that way, which means, they're screwed regardless of how well they're raised? That no matter how many positive, supportive people and life experience they have, they still become sex offenders. In another interview online, Ian Watkins talked about shedding his straight-edge image because he viewed it as confining his artistic ability for song-writing on one of their albums (The Betrayed, I think).

In another interview, Watkins is quoted as saying that he had to shed his self-imposed constraints and just go nuts and treat everything as an experience, without worrying about the consequences. People reading that article could have easily interpreted it as Watkins talking about his drug use (nearly every rock musician does drugs -- hell, even Miley Cyrus and Rhianna are open about their love of smoking dope), but really I think he was indirectly referring to his desire to abuse children. In that same interview he welcomed rumors from his fans because he viewed the rumors as a smoke screen to cover up the real truth of who he is. And nobody else saw that as foreshadowing to his committed sex offenses?!

I agree that people like Ian Watkins should be locked away from society, but unfortunately we can't lock up every single paedophile out there. And most rehabilitation efforts available for paedophile/pedophile prisoners tend to fail to stop them from re-offending if/when they are re-released back into society. I wonder why paedophilics/pedophiliacs are nearly impossible to re-program? That's why I think it has to be a genetic disorder. You can't force someone who is gay to re-program their sexuality to be a heterosexual because they'd be living a lie; just like you can't re-program a sex offender to stop doing what feels natural to them.

Don't get me wrong. I think paedophiles/pedophiles are the most depraved population of the human species, and should be locked away from society forever. However, the culture of "pederasty" has been around since the 6th century, first recorded with the ancient Greeks, and then spread to Europe, Asia and even North America. Pederasty - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I think it's extremely disturbing that a practice such as pederasty even exists in human society and even in modern Islam or India where men can marry child brides and rape them without much consequence from their own country's government.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jasper12 View Post
People know the difference between right and wrong. And make conscious choices, regarding addictive behavior, like using drugs and alcohol.

Anyone who even THINKS about using a child for sex, KNOWS this is wrong! And should immediately seek therapy, and intervention. Before exploiting a child. That is the morally correct thing to do. However, pedophiles justify their sick behavior with all kinds of excuses, rather than just owning it.

Narcissistic, thinking all about themselves, is rampant with child molesters...just like this guy, rather than think about what he did to kids, or showing any remorse, he thinks about himself, and how much danger he will have in prison...

The scariest thing? Child molesters, as people, are the nicest, funniest, people you would ever meet...that is their persona, and often how they seduce their young prey. They think they are great...of course, part of their personality disorder. And it is amazing to me, how many adults come to the defense of a child molester.

I totally agree with you that even if someone has a disposition to paedophilia/pedophilia that they can CHOOSE not to sexually offend and to seek treatment for their urges before they commit sex crimes. Sadly, many do not feel shame or remorse for their committed sex offenses. They don't see it as a big deal, as Ian Watkins is quoted to have said from his jail cell.

And it is scary that child molesters can deceive so well, the way they come across as someone you think you can trust with your life. I think the people who defend child molesters do so because they believe those people can be re-programmed. But the reality is, those kind of people don't want to be reprogrammed, even if they show remorse. Underneath that false veneer of remorse is the urge to commit more sex offenses, and those types simply cannot be trusted.

Quote:
Originally Posted by WPANative View Post
You never really know who people are. I've seen a long list of people I'd admired or never thought bad, but have criminal tendencies.
This is true. I'm just disappointed when I find out that a celebrity or public figure I admire for a cause, a work of literary art, film, or music turns out to be a depraved human being. It shatters everything you came to trust about the authenticity of what that person had to offer you. In the case of Ian Watkins, his gift to the public was his song-writing and his music. It's disturbing how well he lied to his own band mates and family. (Not to mention all of the fans of the band lost prophets. They're childhood music heroes are gone; erased from every social networking site out there; no more band Facebook page, twitter feed, or MySpace pages.)

But I think deep down Watkins' family and band mates and close friends must have known what he was doing on some level. How could they not??? There's no way you can spend 15 years with a person in a band, and not recognize signs of depravity in that person. I mean, they did a drug intervention with him, so you think they would have been able to stand up to him and call him out on his inappropriate behavior with his young female fans. Or, why didn't his girlfriend "Jo" say anything to his band mates about what she discovered? Or to Ian's family once she realized what a pervert he'd become?

I think that's probably why the police force in his hometown of Pontypridd did nothing; because Ian was idolized as a hometown hero. There was even gossip that Ian had molested his niece (his sister's daughter). You'd think the sister would have gone to the police as well, or Ian's brother would have said something.

If you had a paedophile/pedophile in your family, would you cover up that person's behavior? Or would you report that person to the police? If you wouldn't report it, why? What would prevent you? I wonder if Ian Watkins family and band mates didn't report him because they were afraid of losing the millions of dollars that the band was raking in from their platinum album sales and success touring. If Ian Watkins had moved to Los Angeles with his bandmates instead of staying behind in Wales, do you think that would have curbed his behavior, or sped up his eventual arrest?

I think paedophilia/pedophilia is disgusting and ruins lives of the victims' forever. I also think its rare that celebrities like Ian Watkins are held accountable and jailed for their actions. Look at UK celebrities Gary Glitter and Jimmy Savile. Gary Glitter fled the UK to Vietnam and Korea but was eventually brought back to the UK where he served some jail time. But Jimmy Savile got away with molesting hundreds of women without serving any jail time before he died. And the BBC was going to run an investigative documentary on Jimmy Savile but then pulled that programming and replaced it with shows that paid tribute to all the fundraising and charity work this underground paedophile/pedophile did for England.

The list of debauched celebrities and musicians and artists is infinite it seems. I just don't understand how those people either get away with their crime, or if they do serve their time, society forgets and forgives them (which shouldn't happen).

Last edited by Midwest Maven; 12-26-2013 at 12:48 PM..
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Old 12-26-2013, 12:46 PM
 
Location: in my mind
2,774 posts, read 2,299,394 times
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Given the questions you are asking here, OP, I think you would find this article interesting:

Stop childhood sexual abuse: How to treat pedophilia.
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Old 12-26-2013, 12:59 PM
 
Location: Minnesota
400 posts, read 615,482 times
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Originally Posted by KittenSparkles View Post
Given the questions you are asking here, OP, I think you would find this article interesting:

Stop childhood sexual abuse: How to treat pedophilia.
Thanks for the article link. It discusses exactly what I think to be true; that paedophilia/pedophilia is not just something caused by environment, but that people grow up knowing they have this tendency to be attracted to young children. It's just the way some people are born. And the article raises important questions as how society should change the way it deals with just punishing those who are either convicted or underground paedophiles/pedophiles. I could or would ever be friends with, or date someone who is a paedophile/pedophile though. I wouldn't trust them to abstain from finding victims to hurt or worse.
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Old 12-26-2013, 03:59 PM
 
Location: Tucson for awhile longer
5,602 posts, read 5,504,654 times
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Why do any of us have the particular physical attractions we experience that are beyond logic? Why are some people only attracted to those who project the media's definition of physical beauty? Why do some cultures consider excess body weight to be a real turn off, yet in other cultures very skinny people are considered less attractive? Why do so many men equate long hair on a woman as a physical turn on? Why do so many women feel attraction to the bad boy and reject the accomplished man? Why are some people attracted to the opposite sex and others to the same sex? Why do grandmas think the guys their granddaughters are attracted to are creepy looking? We can't answer any of those questions and it is much easier to study those people because they are usually willing to talk about their sexual attractions.

Pedophiles are very difficult to study since those people are not usually willing to discuss their desires with people who don't share them. The psychiatric community classifies adults attracted to children as an aberration but it's one that only becomes apparent to society when it's ACTED UPON, which is when it rises to the level of criminal behavior. We don't know, however, how many people have these feelings yet repress them.

Many people believe that our unconscious sexual desires are formed in childhood. We see someone or some activity that gives us a sexual thrill we are not even capable of understanding or processing, and we keep that scene in our subconscious forever and react sexually when we see it again as adults. That would at least partially explain why so many people who are attracted to children were victims of sexual predators in their youth. You would think that victims would want to run away from their horrible experience instead of visit it on another child, but it's thought that because their earliest sexual experience (even if unpleasant) is imprinted on them as the definition of what sex is and they can't help but perpetuate the behavior.

I thought this article contained some interesting insights on this problem:
What Science Reveals About Pedophilia - The Daily Beast
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Old 12-26-2013, 04:04 PM
 
1,006 posts, read 793,064 times
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What would Jesus do?
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Old 12-26-2013, 05:31 PM
 
Location: Minnesota
400 posts, read 615,482 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jukesgrrl View Post
Why do any of us have the particular physical attractions we experience that are beyond logic? Why are some people only attracted to those who project the media's definition of physical beauty? Why do some cultures consider excess body weight to be a real turn off, yet in other cultures very skinny people are considered less attractive? Why do so many men equate long hair on a woman as a physical turn on? Why do so many women feel attraction to the bad boy and reject the accomplished man? Why are some people attracted to the opposite sex and others to the same sex? Why do grandmas think the guys their granddaughters are attracted to are creepy looking? We can't answer any of those questions and it is much easier to study those people because they are usually willing to talk about their sexual attractions.

Pedophiles are very difficult to study since those people are not usually willing to discuss their desires with people who don't share them. The psychiatric community classifies adults attracted to children as an aberration but it's one that only becomes apparent to society when it's ACTED UPON, which is when it rises to the level of criminal behavior. We don't know, however, how many people have these feelings yet repress them.

Many people believe that our unconscious sexual desires are formed in childhood. We see someone or some activity that gives us a sexual thrill we are not even capable of understanding or processing, and we keep that scene in our subconscious forever and react sexually when we see it again as adults. That would at least partially explain why so many people who are attracted to children were victims of sexual predators in their youth. You would think that victims would want to run away from their horrible experience instead of visit it on another child, but it's thought that because their earliest sexual experience (even if unpleasant) is imprinted on them as the definition of what sex is and they can't help but perpetuate the behavior.

I thought this article contained some interesting insights on this problem:
What Science Reveals About Pedophilia - The Daily Beast
'

So if your theory is correct, then Watkins childhood would have had to include being molested himself which is possible but no one knows that except for Watkins and the person who did it to him. And if something like that did happen to Watkins, you'd think he'd want to get help for it. He just seemed normal in all his interviews; with the exception of his huge ego that you could see irritated his band mates a lot.

I wonder, would he have become one anyway, had he not formed his band and rose to such fame? Because my theory is that it was his fame that was the catalyst for his perverse actions, esp. since he wasn't doing this from the start of his rock career. (It's just been documented for one year, and I'm not excusing his behavior by pointing out the time frame. It just needs to happen once to become a serious offense.)

Throw in drugs, alcohol, easy access to fawning, underage fans that's available to every single rock star, and you can react one of two ways; you take advantage of the situation b/c you're a pervert, and commit heinous acts against fans like Watkins, Glitter and Savile (to name just a few), or you stay clean-cut with fairly healthy boundaries and manage to stay on track with your life and marry and have a family of your own.

If he had not pursued his music, would he be some odd graphic designer who becomes a paedophile/pedophile that no one hears of until his first sex offense? But, if like the article you and the other poster points out, society had a less volatile attitude towards paedophiles/pedophiles, and a more compassionate one like, "it's not their fault they were born this way, or developed this temptation of feelings so as a society let's have psychiatric resources available to counsel and help these men (and women) come to grips with their sexual orientation, so that they don't become sex offenders," then I think society would be better able to deal with the ones who do become sex offenders. I'm not saying we should all throw away our moral compasses and approve paedophilia/pedophila. No way. But I think the system that's in place now -- prison and rehabilitation programs -- still sends them the message, "you're a worthless piece of sh*$ and society will shun you for the rest of your life." It doesn't work, for those who get released back into a society that's deathly afraid of them re-offending. It's not good to live your life in fear.

I just find it hard to believe that all of the sudden, he comitts over 13 sex offenses within one year's time and whala, he's landed himself in jail for 29 years plus 6 years probation as a convicted sex offender. Watkins must have known what he was doing was wrong and immoral, and just didn't care because he was messed up. And he had choices. He never could have acted on his impulses, or sought counseling behind the scenes out of the limelight, or taken a hiatus from touring to figure his life's path out. Why didn't he? I guess he'll be asking himself that question for the next 29 years if he has a conscience? Or not. I have no idea.

But I just wonder how much his rock n roll lifestyle contributed to his downfall, (esp. the people he socialized with who gave him drugs, and got him involved in that porn site -- yuck!! -- b/c none of his other band mates fell in with that crowd; they all got married and had families except for Lee Gaze who lives in London with his fiance). Watkins isn't the first rock musician who failed to sustain a career in music: Johnny Rotten, Lenny Kravitz, Axl Rose, Jobriath, Lauren Hill, MC Hammer, and that's not including all the rappers and rockstars who've spent time in jail. But it's a huge disappointment because he and the band had so much going for them. I feel bad for his family, friends and especially for his victims.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cocaseco View Post
What would Jesus do?
Hah! I'm an Atheist. *shrug*

Last edited by Midwest Maven; 12-26-2013 at 05:43 PM..
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