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When my child is brutally murdered in our home who cares what the public thinks of me and my husband??? Did Elizabeth White's parents care when the media leaked info that there was gay porn on home computers??? No they went in front of everyone...Law enforcement and media...so much so that her dad needed to be hospitalized for exhaustion...that's what innocent parents do...not evasive answers and lawyers acting like pit bulls parsing words...
Yup.
I recently watched a very heavily slanted-with-sympathy toward the Ramseys British documentary I had never seen before (thought I had seen everything). My thanks to the person who uploaded it so recently.
I still can't get past 1) that ransom note, and knowing for certain that Patsy could write that legibly with her left hand; 2) a strong feeling about a feminine presence/killer and Patsy's possible "shadow" side that John may have never even known about; and 3) the statement analyses I have read. (Virgode provided a list of those in the Jonbenet Part II thread, but if you google "Jonbenet statement analysis," you can bring them all up. It's incredible how what we say and the way we say it betrays us when we lie).
Here's the British documentary for anyone who's interested -- it covers many areas and people, including John's first wife, the media swarm and reporters, John's brother, and several others.
I don't think we would still be talking about this today if John and Patsy had simply consented to go to the police station when asked on the 26th and 27th, volunteered to take lie detector tests like innocent parents would do, and complied completely. But they didn't; they hired expensive lawyers instead and distanced themselves from the police.
^^^^^^^^^^ Exactly...how could any parent stop trying to catch their child's killer??? Especially with all the tools John Ramsey has at his disposal??? He used his money to try and get himself and Patsy off the hook...when he perceived that to be the case he went on with his life...not something an innocent father would do...again I would run to take a poly graph...speak to anyone and everyone that would listen to me...I wouldn't sleep,eat,run for political office or remarry...everything would become unimportant till the murderer of my beautiful child was caught...now his defenders will say how do you know what you would do or judge someone else's behavior???? Because there are truisms in life that allow anyone with an ounce of common sense to draw conclusions on what is suspicious behavior and what isn't...didn't everyone draw the same conclusion when OJ vowed to find Nicole's killer and proceeded to spend his days on the golf course and his nights with some bimbo blonde...
Right on!
Agree w/everything.
Unfortunately, OJ is unable to find the killer at this time!! lol
This, also from Toshiaben I can't imagine anyone, much less John Ramsey, doing this to JonBenet, but I think he did.
Her murder was so brutal, I can't visualize any loving parent capable. Pity the women who lays down next to him a nite now... You have to wonder if she ever has doubts?
One discrepancy in first 10 minutes; second narrator who said 'these were the last photos taken of JonBenet' (Christmas morning 1996), John said, no photos taken on morning of the 25th, something about batteries in camera weren't working?
One discrepancy in first 10 minutes; second narrator who said 'these were the last photos taken of JonBenet' (Christmas morning 1996), John said, no photos taken on morning of the 25th, something about batteries in camera weren't working?
There are quite a few discrepancies I found after watching this closely a second time, and I'm going to do it again, make notes, and post them tomorrow.
About the photos -- John had said that Jonbenet wanted him to do the "movie camera" like he usually did, but he couldn't that year because his batteries were dead. I thought that was strange; here's a family who would have "Camcorded" the opening of an envelope, but John didn't make sure he had batteries for CHRISTMAS? So, he could only take still photos -- apparently, only a few.
He also couldn't find time all day to walk beside his 6-year-old daughter on her new bike. That's a milestone event for any parent, but they had all these other things to do that seemed more important to him.
I know the "Bonita" papers are third-hand information, but I highly doubt someone just sat there and made all this up, then pretended it was the real thing and then sold it to the media. Some or most of it is likely true; the woman had access to the papers right there in the office.
Also, in the video, I stopped short when John said was describing Burke, showing him playing basketball, and he said, "he's average in sports," or something to that effect. He also said something more recently about how he got a job in the computer industry "all by himself." It was on one of those more recent videos, a talk show - can't keep up with all of them. And they've always described Burke as "quiet" and you get the sense that he was aloof, emotionally distant -- even in the few glimpses we get of him in these videos or pictures. He just looks ever-so-slightly "apart" from things -- but again, he was going to be only 10 the next month, and 10 is an awkward age.
I have really learned a great deal from those statement analyses you posted. I even read some background of the same on statements made by OJ Simpson and Lee Harvey Oswald. It's truly a psychological forensic science.
About the photos -- John had said that Jonbenet wanted him to do the "movie camera" like he usually did, but he couldn't that year because his batteries were dead. I thought that was strange; here's a family who would have "Camcorded" the opening of an envelope, but John didn't make sure he had batteries for CHRISTMAS? So, he could only take still photos -- apparently, only a few.
And they've always described Burke as "quiet" and you get the sense that he was aloof, emotionally distant -- even in the few glimpses we get of him in these videos or pictures. He just looks ever-so-slightly "apart" from things -- but again, he was going to be only 10 the next month, and 10 is an awkward age.
Okay, when he said batteries, thought he meant for the camera.
Sexual Behavior Problems (SBP) - from James Kolar's book about Ramsey case
From Foreign Faction: Who Really Kidnapped JonBenet? by A. James Kolar; pages 367-70:
Quote:
I had reviewed an investigator’s report that documented a 1997 interview with former Ramsey nanny – housekeeper Geraldine Vodicka, who stated that Burke had smeared feces on the walls of a bathroom during his mother’s first bout with cancer. She told investigators that Nedra Paugh, who was visiting the Ramsey home at the time, had directed her to clean up the mess.
There were other police reports in the files that documented what I thought could be viewed as related behavior. CSIs had written about finding a pair of pajama bottoms in JonBenét’s bedroom that contained fecal material. They were too big for her and were thought to belong to Burke.
Additionally, a box of candy located in her bedroom had also been observed to be smeared with feces. Both of these discoveries had been made during the processing of the crime scene during the execution of search warrants following the discovery of JonBenét’s body.
I wondered whether fecal material observed in pajamas thought to belong to Burke, and smeared on the box of candy in his sister’s bedroom, could have been related to the symptoms of scatological behavior associated with SBP.
I also contemplated the reasons why a box of JonBenét’s candy would have been smeared with human excrement.
Since we've gone into discussion about Burke....Two transcripted interviews... Patsy Ramsey and Investigator Tom Haney...First Interview Patsy denies discussions with Burke,
second interview below
TOM HANEY: "And have you talked about it a lot, have you discussed all of these various theories?"
PATSY RAMSEY: "Over and over and over."
TOM HANEY: "You say he didn't do it and he says you didn't do it, and didn't have any part in any coverup, anything like that. Any staging. That only leaves one other person alive in the house at the time, that's Burke."
PATSY RAMSEY: "And the murderer."
TOM HANEY: "5:52 A.M.?"
PATSY RAMSEY: Okay. So?"
TOM HANEY: "So you said it wasn't you and it wasn't John. Could it have been Burke?"
PATSY RAMSEY: "No. It wouldn't have been Burke."
TOM HANEY: "Why couldn't it?"
PATSY RAMSEY: "How do you believe you saw (inaudible) a ten year old, nine year old boy (inaudible). Plus the fact that he loved his sister."
TOM HANEY: "It's not unheard of for a nine or ten year old child?"
PATSY RAMSEY: "My child is unheard of."
TOM HANEY: "And why is that? What would make him different from some other nine or ten year old?"
PATSY RAMSEY: "Because he was not raised in a family of violence. We are a very loving family."
TOM HANEY: "Could it have been an accident?"
PATSY RAMSEY: "I -- don't know."
TOM HANEY: "Well, you and I don't know because we weren't there?"
PATSY RAMSEY: "Right."
TOM HANEY: "So do you think it could have been, he could have pushed her down the stairs -- "
PATSY RAMSEY: "Burke Ramsey did not do this, okay. He did not do this. Get off it."
TOM HANEY: "How do you know that, though? I mean, have you talked to him about it?"
-- At the beginning, coming out of church, Patsy's near-collapsing, John's wearing that "everyday smile," like nothing's wrong. Greeting the priest warmly. Is this what Arndt meant by "cordial?"
-- Did Patsy have Munchausen syndrome to continue to gain attention, to keep the drama rolling? JB -- 27 doctor visits in one year -- 21 times for a bruise on the nose from a fall, a stomach ache, vaginitis, ear infections, colds, sinusitis, pneumonia, bronchitis, possible asthma, bronchitis. Self-professed "religious miracle cure" from Stage IV ovarian cancer? Munchausen by Proxy Syndrome
-- "Did you have anything to do with the death of JB?" - 5 seconds pass. John: "That's the most difficult question I've ever been asked, and I've been asked that before. Ah, I would have given my life for JB, and I regret...I will regret for the rest of my life that I wasn't able to that night...no, to answer the question, no, we did not."
Patsy: "Absolutely not, I mean, I don't know how...you can even...how do you say no any more clearly than no?"
-- NORMAL ANSWER: "No. We did not."
-- "Do you realize that most people in the United States and many people outside the United States think that you were responsible for killing JB?"
John: "Well, I don't...I don't know that. But if that's true, I've gotta ask why. Is it because we loved our children with our whole hearts, because we gave them everything we could give them, is it because we cared for them more than any...more than life itself, or is it because we were asleep in the house the night she was murdered? I'm...I'm dumbfounded. The only possible reason that could be is because, ah, of the media. The media has told the lie so many times that people start to believe it as the truth."
(Of course he knows that. Why else did he hire lawyers? Why is he doing this interview?)
NORMAL ANSWER: "Yes. We know that."
-- Patsy, when describing how JB would investigate her blood, IV, etc., while in hospital -- this is her baseline behavior: she's charming, articulate, a good storyteller, entertaining, has a flair for drama, extroverted, amusing, excellent grooming, popular, energetic, effervescent, appearance (self, those close to her, material possessions) is very important. Self-centered but likeable, engaging, and interesting.
-- The Christmas open house was held two years before JB was killed. She was 4. (I have volunteered at two of these events in two different historical houses -- one per year. All the "docents" were assigned a space to "stand guard" for a 2-hour time slot and explain or point out interesting items in certain rooms. In both those houses, spaces that were not used or storage spaces were blocked off. I don't believe anyone snuck around to try to find a hiding place to kill JB two years later.)
-- Patsy gets up, notices JB's door is closed, though "I always left it ajar a little bit." (That's not a sign something's off?)
-- Patsy: "I said, 'I'm going to call police,' and he said okay, and I think he went to check on Burke...'" (In other versions, I'd always read that John told her to call 911.)
-- Patsy: "I just kept staring out the window...and I expected she'd come running down the street. I just kept looking for her, looking, praying." (But she was supposedly kidnapped.)
-- The police/media claim they didn't know about the broken window until months later. Why didn't John tell them? He told Fleet White; why didn't he alert authorities to say, "Here's where they may have gotten in"?
-- When John found JB, he "screamed to try to attract attention." Took her upstairs. Linda Arndt told her she was dead. THEN Patsy says, "I think we walked into the living room, and she was there, and John said, she's gone." Why hadn't she run over immediately at the sound of his voice?
-- At the funeral in Atlanta, Patsy says, "I was aware that there were photographers everywhere but I really wasn't sure why, I mean, I mean obviously a murder had taken place, but it was just...and I wondered, how did all these people find out about it or, um, how did...how did they know where we were, or how did they know we were coming to Atlanta to bury JB?" (Of course she knew; Mike Bynum had told John on the 26th that they should hire an attorney. On the 27th, they did after his HR person from Access called and said the same thing. They knew they were suspects.)
-- In the CNN interview (which shows they lived in a bubble, not the real world, and were accustomed to getting their way to the point that calling one of the top news organizations in the world was considered something reasonable to do), I don't see tears in Patsy's face. I see a woman high on tranquilizers pretending to cry and using the best of her feminine wiles to play up to the camera.
-- Why didn't they sue the media outlets who were misrepresenting the facts about the case instead of holding their own press conference in MAY 1997, almost five months after JB's death? Heck, if they were innocent, they could have made many pretty pennies more than they likely did writing their book. (I think this press conference shrieks of yet another bubble-life move that seemed reasonable to them but bizarre to those without such a high sense of entitlement. If I were innocent, I'd be mad as a hornet, and I'd sue everyone who defamed or told lies about me.) I wouldn't sit around hiding in a friends' home or not give a polygraph because "no one asked us to." They were very reactive and not proactive, which implies guilt.
-- When questioned about possible sexual abuse, John answers. Patsy doesn't speak.
-- John says of this supposed mistress, Kim Ballard, "I don't have a clue who Kimberly Ballard is. She came out of the woodwork. She called us, ah, several times, ah, ah, saying she's going to the media, I don't even know who she is! Don't have a clue who Kimberly Ballard is." (He's smiling, and Patsy's smile-smirking. He uses the word "woodwork" instead of "out of nowhere." "Woodwork" implies (to me, at least) slight knowledge of a person; "nowhere" would mean having no knowledge of a person.
"Have you ever spoken to Kimberly Ballard?" - John says, "No." So who answered the phone those several times she called? "Have you ever met Kim..." -- John says, "No!" "Have you ever spoken on the phone with..." John says, "No!" "She's not a close friend?" John says, "No," and he and Patsy start to laugh about the remarks she made about him being in Tucson with her at a certain hotel. If that was a lie, and if he were a real man, an innocent man with a wife, dealing with uncooperative, bumbling police while grieving, I'd send those lawyers right to her door in no time and sue her! They already had a top-notch law firm behind them.
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