JonBenét Ramsey Part II (sociopathic, children, case, husband)

[in_newengland]

I see the bedwetting as a form of regressing to infancy. Infancy, where she would have been loved, not abused. I don't think she did it intentionally. Kids often regress to baby like behavior when they are being forced to be more grown up than they want to be.

"Grown up" in this case, meaning what? Performing in pageants or being sexually abused?

[duffy68]

Originally Posted by CA4Now

...a good run down written by the tabloid lawyer of the year, "Doc" Miller! Read up on him.

He's also married to Judith Phillips.

I haven't read his book, just excerpts.

So there's no corruption in the legal system?

As far as I can tell justice can be bought, would you agree with that?

Here's a link that I thought interesting too- what a circus it was.

http://www.akama.com/company/Docs_Law_ae8f02039446.html

[duffy68]

I remember reading that now about Burke and his bed wetting and the incident on the bathroom walls. I wonder what the source for that was? maybe one of the house keepers? I didnt read LHP's book, maybe it was in there.

Pats was over-bearing that much is obvious. those poor kids, they had it all except they had a crazy mother and a weird childhood, and one ended up dead because of it.

Been reading a bit on LHP (Linda Hoffman Pugh) the bit about the knife was pretty damning, she hid it from Burke (she had to discipline Pats's kids as well as clean her messy house) and told Pats where she hid it- she said noone else knew it was there. It was later found near JBs body in the basement.

Also found this on another forum, from 1998. Its only a news article, so it should be okay to copy. I will bold it.

National Enquirer -

JonBenét's Brother Tells Cops: I Know What Happened

It was just 13 days after the murder of JonBenét Ramsey--and her 9-year-old brother Burke stunned a police psychologist by snapping in an irritated voice: "I know what happened.

The boy's outburst came as Dr. Suzanne Bernhard, a specialist in child psychology, gently probed to find out whether he knew about the brutal killing of the 6-year-old beauty queen.

"The doctor asked him what he thought had happened to his sister - and Burke became irritated for the first time during the interview," an insider revealed to the ENQUIRER.

"Then he blurted out, 'I know what happened. She was killed. Someone took her quietly and took her down in the the basement...took a knife out...hit her on the head."

Cops were stunned, a source close to the case told The Enquirer.

"They're particularly intrigued by Burke's mention of a knife at that early stage of the investigation."

"In the basement where JonBenét was battered and strangled to death, police found a Swiss Army knife, which her father John Ramsey had bought as a present for Burke during a trip to Switzerland.

"But John didn't mention seeing the knife when he found JonBenét's body. And the first time it was publicly reported was nine months later when the police search warrants were released."

So then how did Burke know about the knife, police in Boulder, Colo., wondered.

"They're convinced Burke knows more than he's saying about the murder," said the close source.

What particularly piqued the cops' interest, the ENQUIRER has been told, is that the knife had vanished several weeks before JonBenét's death.

"The Ramseys' housekeeper told police that she became irritated because Burke was continually whittling with the knife and leaving wood shavings all over the carpet," another source revealed.

"Finally, in exasperation, the housekeeper took the knife and hid it at the bottom of a linen cupboard on a landing outside JonBenét and Burke's bedrooms.

"This was several weeks before JonBenét was murdered. And the whittling never started again, indicating that Burke never found the knife.

"But someone did--because it ended up near JonBenét's body."

Police now believe that Burke's knife was used to cut black duct tape that gagged JonBenét.

Burke's interview with Dr. Bernhard--arranged by the Boulder police department--took place on Jan. 8, 1997.

"Burke told Dr. Bernhard right away that he felt safe--which she thought was highly unusual," said the insider. "She told police that children who have a family member killed don't usually feel safe.

"Burke seemed to have difficulty in revealing his feelings about his family, and Dr. Bernhard reported to police that this was common in children who felt there were things they shouldn't say.

"He was asked to draw a picture of his family--and the result was revealing. The father figure was standing some distance from Burke.

"He drew the mother figure smaller than himself-- and JonBenét didn't show up in the picture at all.

"Dr. Bernhard was extremely surprised --most children whose brothers or sisters have died continue to include them in family drawings for years because they can't bear to think of the loss.

"The psychologist concluded that Burke saw his father John as unavailable to him emotionally and his mother Patsy as an insignificant person with little power.

"Over and over, Burke insisted that he tried to forget about the tragedy, and just concentrate on playing Nintendo."

Burke was caught in two lies during the interview: He denied having an ongoing bed-wetting problem, and he said he didn't hear any noises the night JonBenét died.

Yet he told police during a second interview last June that he heard voices in the night, but wasn't alarmed and didn't get up. Police have concluded that it was John and Patsy's voices he hears--even though they have insisted they slept through the night.

As the ENQUIRER revealed in a recent world exclusive story, the boy -- now age 11 -- became a key figure in the investigation when police enhanced the recording of Patsy's first 911 call to the police at 5:52 a.m. reporting JonBenét's alleged kidnapping.

In the background, the enhancement clearly revealed Burke's voice pleading with his father, "Please, what do I do?"

"It was proof the Ramsey's lied when they told police Burke slept through the night until he was woken at 7 a.m.," the close source declared.

"And it convinced the cops that Burke heard or saw something John and Patsy didn't want him to talk about."

Their suspicions were also fueled by Burke's reaction the morning after the murder, when John and his friend Fleet White went to Burke's room at 7 a.m. to wake him.

"The family had planned to fly in John Ramsey's plane to their lakeside home in Michigan that morning," said the close source.

"But Fleet White told police that Burke never asked, 'Why aren't we going in the plane this morning?" And he never asked a single question about JonBenét or why the house was full of cops.

"The conclusion investigators drew was that the boy had heard or seen enough to tell him what was going on."

Burke is also tied to another crucial piece of evidence: the pineapple JonBenét ate before she died.

"During the autopsy, the coroner found pineapple in JonBenét's small intestine," said the insider. "He concluded that she ate it abut two hours before she died.

"JonBenét didn't eat pineapple at the party they attended earlier that Christmas night--and John and Patsy insisted she fell asleep on the way home and they put her to bed, still asleep and without eating anything else.

"Yet detectives found an unfinished bowl of pineapple on the dining room table next morning.

"And when the bowl was tested, it showed Patsy and Burke's fingerprints?

"Police believe it shows the Ramseys were lying--that sometime after they got home JonBenét was up and Patsy was feeding her pineapple. And Burke was also there."

That indicates Burke KNOWS JonBenét was awake much later than the Ramseys have told police--and he may even have eaten pineapple with her soon before she was killed!

Family and friends insist Burke felt unthreatened by JonBenét's success as a beauty queen, and had a close, loving relationship with her.

An incident in 1994 when Burke hit JonBenét with a golf club, cutting her cheek, has been dismissed as an accident.

"If JonBenét wet her bed, she'd often go into Burke's room and sleep in the spare bed there," the insider disclosed.

"And on Christmas Eve--one night before the murder--JonBenét slept in Burke's room so he could wake her up early to open their present."

Prosecutors videotaped Burke's interview with Dr. Bernhard and they'll play it for the grand jury that will soon decide whether to bring an indictment against John and Patsy Ramsey.

Then Burke will come under the spotlight even more, predict law enforcement sources.

"He has secrets to tell," the close source added.

"And this case may hinge on whether he ever decides to tell them.

by David Wright

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
National Enquirer -

Burke Today: A trouble schoolkid living with his anger

Band practice at the exclusive Lovett School in Atlanta came to a sudden halt recently when an 11-year-old trombone player threw a fit.

The youngster was Burke Ramsey.

Sadly the murder of his sister, JonBenét seems to have turned him into an angry and sometimes strange boy.

"Burke tossed his instrument to the floor with a thud and screamed that he hated the trombone and didn't want to play it anymore," said a source.

"All the kids in the band got real quiet and some of them were frightened.

"Burke kept screaming an practice was canceled while teachers quieted him down. Burke is now playing saxophone."

On another occasion, Burke was on an amusement park outing when he got freaked out by a girl who looked like JonBenét, said the source.

"He went white and turned away from her. He kept yelling he didn't want to go on a ride with HER!"

One of Burke's homeroom classmates told the source: "He talks to himself in the corner a lot. Everybody thinks he's talking to his sister."

Don Gentile

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
National Enquirer -

Anguished brother tortured by burden of protecting parents, says expert

Burke Ramsey is torn by an urge to protect hidden desire to reveal secrets about the murder of his sister JonBenét, an expert reveals.

"I'd say nine out of 10 kids who witness their parents commit murder or are the victims of abuse, protect their parents," famed forensic psychiatrist Judianne Denser-Gerber told the ENQUIRER.

"But that's a horrible burden to bear and eventually these children start to reveal the secrets they know."

Shortly after the murder, Burke told a psychologist he would never reveal family secrets.

But the 11-year-old has since been dropping more and more clues about what happened on that horrible Christmas night when his sister was slain.

"The way Burke is dropping clues indicates he may have hidden his nightmares in another personality," said Dr. Densen-Gerber. "I've read that John and Patsy Ramsey say Burke is a normal boy. But he can't be normal any more than the two of them can be normal in light of what happened to JonBenét.: [sic]

Dr. Densen-Gerber thinks Burke could become the eyewitness police need to solve the case.

"He should be questioned by experts again and again," she said.
"He's giving indications he witnessed a nightmare.

"Proper questioning can take him back to that horrible night--and it can help solve the case."

Don Gentile

[virgode]

Originally Posted by June87

If this behavior was intentional, instead of say a lose opening (which happens after abuse in girls and boys), it had the reverse affect of what she wanted. Her mother still made her do things she didn't want to.

If its not involuntary its psychological, kind of passive aggression and associated with ODD, Oppositional Defiant Disorder.

[duffy68]

quickly off topic ..ssshh. my rep button doesnt work. anyone else have that problem? so apologies because I like that option and used it when I first got here but it always says I must spread the rep around, no matter how many different posters I try to give it to. lol.

[June87]

Originally Posted by virgode

If its not involuntary its psychological, kind of passive aggression and associated with ODD, Oppositional Defiant Disorder.

This why I think it was involuntary or a defense mechanism. If she was really ODD, she would have soiled her self during pageants and not done them at all.

I don't know what sort psychological issues Jonbenet had, but none of them were ODD. ODD children are VIOLENT. As in they can hurt adults, because "feel" like it. ODD children can be triggered by a lot of things. I have known and worked with ODD children. I know a bit about they behave. The one thing that can be agreed is Jonbennet was a very manipulated child. ODD child do not allow that sort, and extend, or manipulation. The only way Jonbenet was ODD was if she was highly medicated.

[June87]

Originally Posted by duffy68

quickly off topic ..ssshh. my rep button doesnt work. anyone else have that problem? so apologies because I like that option and used it when I first got here but it always says I must spread the rep around, no matter how many different posters I try to give it to. lol.

If it's not resolved, contact a mod. Maybe it's the system?

[June87]

Duffy, thank you for those articles. I'm not going to quote you, because there are long. I find it strange Burke had a spare bed in his room. Why? I also find it telling that Jonbenet slept in his room often. Maybe she was afraid of being abused by someone and thought he would protect her.

I'm also not surprised it took a toll on him. He has to know something. I hope one day Burke will reveal all he knows. A child shouldn't have to protect his parents.

[Annie53]

Originally Posted by June87

Duffy, thank you for those articles. I'm not going to quote you, because there are long. I find it strange Burke had a spare bed in his room. Why? I also find it telling that Jonbenet slept in his room often. Maybe she was afraid of being abused by someone and thought he would protect her.

I'm also not surprised it took a toll on him. He has to know something. I hope one day Burke will reveal all he knows. A child shouldn't have to protect his parents.

My brother and I both had two twin beds in our rooms......nothing odd about it.

Our rooms were large enough and we used them when we had friends or cousins sleep over.

[Annie53]

Originally Posted by duffy68

quickly off topic ..ssshh. my rep button doesnt work. anyone else have that problem? so apologies because I like that option and used it when I first got here but it always says I must spread the rep around, no matter how many different posters I try to give it to. lol.

That happens to me once in awhile, the rep button just does nothing.....no message at all.

If you refresh the page then the rep buttons will work......I don't know why.....I just learned that it works.