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I don't believe the Tazer theory - that's never been proven whatsoever. IIRC, that was the late Lou Smit's "idea" - which is extremely weak. I remember seeing a documentary where he showed some marks on JBR, but I've never seen/heard anything that proves these were Tazer marks. They could easily have been bruises.
Re: the rest of what was done to JBR, I wouldn't put anything past the parents if they were trying to cover up a crime - so the suspicion would fall away from them. And, I will admit I'm not 100% convinced either of the parents (or Burke) killed JBR. However, if they didn't do it, I do believe that someone else in the family (or a friend) committed the crime, and the parents were trying to protect them & their own reputation.
The one thing I AM convinced about is that one (or both) of the parents wrote that ransom letter.
I said it before & I'll say it again. Why would a criminal who was intent on kidnapping JBR for ransom leave the letter at the house, and also leave the body of JBR in the basement? Ludicrous! If JBR died "accidentally" somehow while being kidnapped, the theoretical perpetrators would have realized that it would be tough to get the $ since JBR was dead. So, I could easily see them leaving her in the basement - so they wouldn't have to take the body with them. However, I don't see them leaving the ransom note @ the house - it would just provide further clues to their identities. They would have taken the ransom note with them when they left.
Conversely, if the theoretical perpetrators wanted to get the $ (even after JBR was dead), I can see them leaving the ransom note & taking the body, so maybe they could trick the parents into giving them the money before they realized JBR had passed. Something like this actually happened with the Lindbergh baby kidnapping back in the 1930's:
However, leaving the ransom note AND the body?! This makes no sense - no way would this happen.
One of the other elements to this crime that leads me to believe the parents were involved is this:
Though the parents "supposedly" searched the house looking for JBR (after "finding" the ransom note early that morning), they actually never found the body until much later that day. I can see the Boulder LE not thoroughly looking throughout the house (especially if they were unfamiliar with the layout, which apparently was convoluted), but why didn't either of the parents think to look in that small basement room (where JBR was found) prior to that afternoon?! They should have thoroughly searched the entire house immediately after finding the ransom note, and they would have found the body right away. This was also EXTREMELY suspicious. It seems to me that they intentionally waited to find the body later, so as to divert suspicion away from themselves.
Last edited by The Big Lebowski Dude; 08-18-2016 at 11:02 PM..
I think the parents must have known who did it. I think they were trying to protect someone but other than that, I have no idea. I used to think they were trying to protect a close friend or family member. Or maybe they had been allowing someone to have immoral access to the child--why, I wouldn't know.
I used to think that maybe some friend or family member had hidden in their house after their Christmas party and just stayed around.
I still think they may have been trying to protect their own reputation. They must have been guilty of something--like allowing the child to hang around with the adult who murdered her or giving some evil person sexual access to her or SOMETHING that would make them look bad if it were ever discovered.
Patsy wrote the note. Weren't those close friends totally disgusted with them and didn't they break off the friendship. That tells us something--but what?
I never thought anyone BUT the Ramsey's was responsible. I mean, maybe when I first saw it on the news, my children were toddlers at the time, and I thought "oh that poor little girl! I feel so sorry for the parents"
But any sympathy soon dissipated.
I agree that Patsy wrote the note. It was long, rambling and dramatic. It fits in with how Patsy speaks, lived her life, and generally presents herself. Everything she did was larger than life. Over the top decorating, the beauty pageants, fascination with being in the spot light, and grandiosity.
Expensive photo shoots of Patsy as well as Jonbenet. One strange picture showed Patsy biting a cross necklace. I found that very strange. Why would a Christian want to bite a cross? Biting is angry and aggressive. Patsy seemed both, to me.
The note, according to those who analyzed it at the time, is consistent with someone who has attained a bachelors degree. As Patsy did, and a native American speaker of English. It's imaginative. And a little wild. And flamboyant. That was Patsy to a T.
What terrorist group refers to them selves as a "small foreign faction".? They don't. We do, as Americans. They are foreign to US - not to themselves. Foreign people are not American English speakers.
Graphologists ruled out everyone but Patsy.
Patsy seemed to suffer from a plethora of personality disorders - Narcissistic Personality Disorder, Histrionic Personality Disorder, and perhaps Borderline Personality Disorder. When interviewed she came across as angry, not sad. It seemed that she alternated between gushing superficial charm and seething anger - with little in between.
She was obsessed with appearances, dressing her children alike. Very perfectionist. Possibly a tad OCD. She even made up her daughter's flamboyant first name.
And her daughter wet the bed. That wasn't perfect.
Enuresis, or bed wetting, is often consistent with trauma and abuse. It is less common in girls than boys.
Jonbenet was treated for urinary tact infections. Why?
She also bleached her 6 year old daughter's hair. Who does that? How outrageous is that? A school photograph shows Jonbenet at school with very obvious brown roots. At a school with middle class or poor students, this would have been seen as a red flag. It may have warranted a discussion with the school social worker. It isn't normal.
Schools DO overlook things in prosperous districts, but they are on high alert in lower income areas. This is a known fact.
And, I have experienced both myself. While living in a wealthy district, parents routinely took their kids out of school for extended vacations.
Try pulling that at a lower middle class school. You will be dealing with a truant officer and possibly, CPS.
My theory is that Patsy and John permitted, for what ever reason, Jonbenet to be used by pedophiles in sexual acts. That night it went too far. I think John may have also sexually abused Jonbenet. I think Patsy abused her physically, especially in regard to the bed wetting.
They had a friend (can't think of his name) who had written a play loosely based upon the 1965 torture slaying of Sylvia Likens. Who coincidentally, died in a basement. Their circle of friends included no people with children. Older people.
When people say "what mother would do this?" I cringe.
This is a true crime forum. My guess is that everyone here is acquainted with more than one infamous woman who has killed, or done dastardly things to her children. Physical abuse, psychological abuse, torture, and sometimes murder. Mothers are people. Some are good and some are not.
And some are evil.
I don't think that Patsy or John killed Jonbenet that night. They probably abused her on other nights. Possibly, they inserted things into her vagina and urethra causing the infections. Possibly, they enjoyed having a doll like little girl and were hugely proud of her pageant success. Perhaps they liked seeing her on stage and shared videos of their daughter with pedophiles. Perhaps they too, were pedophiles. Or voyeuristic. Or both.
Is this speculation? In part, it is. The other part comes from having read much about the case, and others like it, and deducing that this seems plausible.
What does not seem plausible is the idea of a stranger breaking into a house, taking their sweet time writing a ransom note, rummaging around looking for a pen and legal pad. Then roaming through the house, searching for the little girl's bedroom. Removing her, with out awakening her, or anyone in the house, going back down the staircase, down to the huge basement, and finding a room in which to commit the murder.
Oh and not leaving any foot prints. Forgot that part. So he flew in the house like a spirit undetected? What about foot prints? Boot or shoe marks?
It would make sense, if you were a kidnapper who wrote a ransom note, to actually kidnap the child. People who kidnap children and hold them for ransom - TAKE THEM AWAY.
They don't hang around the house writing long, verbose letters, murder the child - then leave.
THIS is a fantasy. Created by the Ramsey's who panicked when things went wrong that night. They went too far.
The ransom note was a pathetic attempt to cover up a murder, that would have brought shame on anyone. Not just the socially conscious Ramsey's.
Their narcissism as a family was evident. They thought they were better than the police. That they could trick them by playing victim. John took control of everything. The police, remarkably, behaved deferentially towards the wealthy Ramseys.
I do not think Burke will reveal anything. I think he has been programmed by his parents.
I still hope that justice is served, however delayed.
Though the parents "supposedly" searched the house looking for JBR (after "finding" the ransom note early that morning), they actually never found the body until much later that day. I can see the Boulder LE not thoroughly looking throughout the house (especially if they were unfamiliar with the layout, which apparently was convoluted), but why didn't either of the parents think to look in that small basement room (where JBR was found) prior to that afternoon?!
Um, maybe because they believed that their daughter was kidnapped since a ransom note was left on their stairwell? The only reason JR went down to that basement much later, at 1 pm, was because Det Linda Arndt asked him to check the interior of the residence for any sign of JonBenet, or something that may have been left or taken by her.
And the Boulder PD did search the house earlier in the morning. Det. French did go to the basement. However, he did not enter the wine cellar, where the body was found. He was looking for points of exit from the house. Later, he obviously felt terrible about his decision.
Rich seems to mean guilty to you....it's a consistent theme with all your posts (O.J., etc).
Oh, so you think O.J. was innocent, too?! Even given the extreme amount of evidence against him in that crime?!
Quote:
Originally Posted by CA4Now
Um, maybe because they believed that their daughter was kidnapped since a ransom note was left on their stairwell? The only reason JR went down to that basement much later, at 1 pm, was because Det Linda Arndt asked him to check the interior of the residence for any sign of JonBenet, or something that may have been left or taken by her.
And the Boulder PD did search the house earlier in the morning. Det. French did go to the basement. However, he did not enter the wine cellar, where the body was found. He was looking for points of exit from the house. Later, he obviously felt terrible about his decision.
I'm aware of the reasoning the parents gave for not searching the entire house initially. I don't buy it. If I were a parent & I thought my child were kidnapped, I would still search the house from top to bottom to ensure that the child wasn't still in the house.
Here's another point: If you buy the kidnapping "theory", then why did the kidnappers use paper that was already in the house?! I believe it was proven that the paper that they used was from a pad found in the home. If they were actual kidnappers, they would have either written the kidnapping note ahead of time & brought it with them, or at least had paper to write on with them so they could write it there at the house. It doesn't make sense that kidnappers were so disorganized that they planned a kidnapping & then didn't even bring paper to write on. Ridiculous.
Last edited by The Big Lebowski Dude; 08-19-2016 at 08:02 AM..
Dr. Phil said yesterday that ]Burke has a "unique personality[".
Odd choice of words, IMO.
Not really...although not my choice of descriptive. A couple of us on the forum with astrology interest did his chart off site. Cold and callous. Interested to see what can be picked up from his interview.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SusanG_O
I've always believed she wrote the note because it said, "be sure to be well rested." What could sound more like a mom?
Good observation; couldn't be more obvious.
Without realizing it she pretty much signed her name to the letter.
When people say "what mother would do this?" I cringe.
That's what makes you cringe??? You think John and Patsy are the devils disciples and that makes you cringe??
Jonbenet was treated for urinary tact infections. Why?
you obviously are not in the medical field you wet the bed because of UTIs a mother can't cause them!!
Oh and not leaving any foot prints. Forgot that part. So he flew in the house like a spirit undetected? What about foot prints? Boot or shoe marks?
ever hear of taking off your boots when you enter a house??
I don't think that Patsy or John killed Jonbenet that night.
when exactly do you think she was killed???
Patsy seemed to suffer from a plethora of personality disorders - Narcissistic Personality Disorder, Histrionic Personality Disorder, and perhaps Borderline Personality Disorder. When interviewed she came across as angry, not sad. It seemed that she alternated between gushing superficial charm and seething anger - with little in between.
now you think she has 3 different personality disorders which is impossible. Of course she was angry and cold she just buried her murdered daughter!! I'd think she was guilty if she was normal. Losing a kid to murder breaks you your never the same. You have no idea what she was like before the killing.
I just thank God you weren't on the jury oh wait there was no jury because they were cleared of EVERYTHING!! I hope Boulder pd apologized to them for rail roading them and destroying their lives but they bungled everything so far so probably not
ever hear of taking off your boots when you enter a house??
Now that would have to be the most respectful psychopathic killer I 've ever reasearched; definitely explains taking time to cover her cold body with a favorite blanket.
I agree that Patsy wrote the note. It was long, rambling and dramatic. It fits in with how Patsy speaks, lived her life, and generally presents herself. Everything she did was larger than life. Over the top decorating, the beauty pageants, fascination with being in the spot light, and grandiosity.
I'm with you on that. The writing style is unusual and it sounds like it was written frantically and probably hysterically too. Not a cold blooded terse ransom note at all that an outsider would have written. She wrote it in an attempt to deflect blame.
She was obsessed with appearances, dressing her children alike. Very perfectionist. Possibly a tad OCD. She even made up her daughter's flamboyant first name.
This too. I have no idea if she had a mental illness but she certainly seemed to be over the top and a perfectionist.
Enuresis, or bed wetting, is often consistent with trauma and abuse. It is less common in girls than boys.
Jonbenet was treated for urinary tact infections. Why?
Yes, bed wetting at that age is usually psychological. Sometimes it occurs if a new baby comes into the family and is getting all the attention. The older child regresses to babyish behavior to try to get attention. In this case it could have been a protest against being entered into beauty contests and just wanting to be loved for being herself, not a contest winner. Or it could have been due to anger over being abused--or just about anything. But I do see the bed wetting as a sign that something was psychologically wrong.
What doesn't fit in is WHY the mother would have taken her to the doctor for the UTIs. Usually if there is something suspicious going on. the parents wouldn't want anyone to have a clue. OTOH, I read that the dr was a family friend so maybe she trusted him to not tell anyone what was really going on.
My theory is that Patsy and John permitted, for what ever reason, Jonbenet to be used by pedophiles in sexual acts. That night it went too far. I think John may have also sexually abused Jonbenet. I think Patsy abused her physically, especially in regard to the bed wetting.
I sort of think so but at the same time, it's hard to believe. Jon Benet was exploited by the beauty pageants. Did they take it further and allow her to be used by pedophiles too? Why though? Not for money--they had enough money. I can't think of any reason for them to allow pedophiles to abuse her. Not unless they (or one of them) were so mentally ill that they actually enjoyed seeing her sexually abused.
What if Patsy knew nothing about it and it was John who was sexually abusing her. Patsy would have been in the dark as to why Jon Benet kept getting UtIs so she would have kept taking her to the doctor, unaware.
If it was John who decided to have a little bit of "fun" with Jon Benet that night, he would, indeed, have had the strength to bash her over the head when she tried to scream or protest. Maybe he was a very sick man and maybe he was familiar with the type of sexual torture that was found in the staging of her death. After all, the garrott was made from Patsy's paintbrush--what invader would have been able to find that! And wouldn't an invader have brought his own instruments of torture?
Patsy, aghast at the child's death and knowing that John did it (by accident), had no choice but to protect her husband and lay the blame on someone else. If Burke had done it, no problem--he was only 9 and would not have been in serious trouble. But if JOHN did it, not only was it murder but it also would expose him as a sicko pervert and would also make Patsy look like an accomplice since she was the one who had sexualized Jon Benet in the first place with the makeup and sexy costumes.
This is a true crime forum. My guess is that everyone here is acquainted with more than one infamous woman who has killed, or done dastardly things to her children.
^^^Reading that was like a wake up call. It strikes a sickening, frightful feeling into the heart. Even I, just an ordinary person, have known first hand of mothers who tried to kill their babies. I have known of mothers and fathers who were mentally ill and have done all sorts of things to their children. I have personally known one wonderful man whom I found out, years later, had sexually abused his students. These people can be pillars of the community or religious people, but that does not exclude them from mental illness.
I don't think that Patsy or John killed Jonbenet that night. They probably abused her on other nights. Possibly, they inserted things into her vagina and urethra causing the infections. Possibly, they enjoyed having a doll like little girl and were hugely proud of her pageant success. Perhaps they liked seeing her on stage and shared videos of their daughter with pedophiles. Perhaps they too, were pedophiles. Or voyeuristic. Or both.
No one knows. I think one or both parents were pedophiles. Inserting things into her vagina probably caused the infections. I am now leaning towards it being John. It must have been difficult seeing a sexy little girl around the house all the time. He must have had these tendencies to begin with but having this child was just too much of a temptation. Jon Benet used to go in and sleep with Burke (IIRC) because she felt "safe"--safe from her father? Burke would have protected his little sister and, at 9 years old, he was old enough to know what was going on and old enough to TELL someone. John wouldn't have dared to let Burke know what was going on.
Incest and sexual child abuse is something that is probably much more common that we can ever imagine. Usually no one talks about it except on tv when the victim comes forward. This little victim never had a chance.
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