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No motive needed for killing their daughter. Either she was killed by accident or someone else killed her but they covered up for the person.
Why didn't they dump the body somewhere else? Probably because someone might have seen them if they carried a body out to the car and drove off in the wee hours of the morning.
If this thread is going to turn into a fight with a few people putting others on the spot, I'm out. I'd rather have a congenial discussion where we all pull together and try to get somewhere.
I too was thinking the parents would have taken her out of the house, had they done this. That would be the smart thing to do. There weren't nearly as many security cams back then and much less chance of getting caught. But I can see where some personality types would get paranoid about being seen even without cameras at every traffic light. I know I would. I'd probably just freeze, afraid to do anything for fear of doing something stupidly wrong.
Last edited by LillyLillyLilly; 08-20-2016 at 09:01 AM..
With murder there's always a motive. It's probably a big reason the Ramsey's were never charged. If it was a accident they would have called 911 not raped and strangled her with a wire on Christmas
Your probably out because nobody's budging and there's so many variables it can't be solved by us. I hope the documentary sheds some light
I think the killer was planning on kidnapping JB he was obsessed with her. Had probably been watching her in the pagents. He's mentally ill so wrote that nonsensical note when he was waiting for them to get back. He's hiding in basement when they get back and go to bed (very creepy) Then he goes and tazers a sleeping JB so she'll be quiet and compliant. Carries her down to basement starts molesting her she wakes up so he hits her with something then panics and kills her. Maybe he's ex military thAts how he know how to garotte. He realizes he can't get a dead body threw the window and he doesn't want her anymore anyway so he cleans up best he can and leaves.
The ransom amount and the garrote are the big unknowns.
The Ranseys could have put her body in the car in the garage. Nobody would have seen that or they could have carried her into the woods. The Ramsey's weren't dumb why leave a ransom note with her there in the basement? Why did John "pretend" to find her when he could have left her there?
Please. This is a Wikipedia page that anyone can post or edit on.
Point taken. So, is there a reliable, non-Wikipedia source that states w/evidence that JBR ate pineapple at the White's? I haven't seen this mentioned anywhere.
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Mysterious Benefactor
And why would his pay stub, even if they saw it, have any bearing on the amount they asked for? "This says 118,000, so let's ask for 118,000, even though it's ridiculously low for a person who lives in this house". Was there any evidence that anyone had been in John's office or looked through any drawers? No. In fact, was there any evidence that anyone from outside the family was in the house that night at all? No.
Again, your whole scenario is preposterous.
Agreed. $118,000 is low to a person of JR's wealth. If there were actually people who broke into the house, you would think that they know at least something about him & would have known that JR had a lot more $ than that at his disposal.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finper
With murder there's always a motive. It's probably a big reason the Ramsey's were never charged. If it was a accident they would have called 911 not raped and strangled her with a wire on Christmas
Disagree completely & unequivocally with this. If JBR died by accident because of the actions of either the parent(s) or another family member (which is what I believe occurred), then they would have wanted to cover it up - since, having to talk to LE about this would bring up too many questions, and may result in the Ramsey's being charged with something. There's no way they would have admitted this to LE - they had too much to lose, i.e. money, power, influence in the community, etc.
Conversely, by making up the whole kidnapping story, they diverted suspicion away from themselves and onto an unknown (and actually nonexistent) person(s).
Quote:
Originally Posted by in_newengland
No motive needed for killing their daughter. Either she was killed by accident or someone else killed her but they covered up for the person.
Why didn't they dump the body somewhere else? Probably because someone might have seen them if they carried a body out to the car and drove off in the wee hours of the morning.
Agreed. Leaving the house, even early in the morning, was too risky. There was always the chance that someone would see them.
Last edited by The Big Lebowski Dude; 08-20-2016 at 10:38 AM..
I think the killer was planning on kidnapping JB he was obsessed with her. Had probably been watching her in the pagents. He's mentally ill so wrote that nonsensical note when he was waiting for them to get back. He's hiding in basement when they get back and go to bed (very creepy) Then he goes and tazers a sleeping JB so she'll be quiet and compliant. Carries her down to basement starts molesting her she wakes up so he hits her with something then panics and kills her. Maybe he's ex military thAts how he know how to garotte. He realizes he can't get a dead body threw the window and he doesn't want her anymore anyway so he cleans up best he can and leaves.
I used to think that the intruder theory was not a valid one. However, yours seems like a fairly accurate scenario. I believe that this person (male) dictated the RN to the person he was with (most likely female). Some believe that she herself knew JonBenet. She probably had no idea what was going to happen... possibly he didn't, either. When things got out of hand, they panicked and ran out, leaving the ransom note. Too risky to go back and get it once they realized they'd forgotten it.
The one on the 12th is Dr Phil which airs on different stations and times in each market.
CBS will air a 6-parter starting Sept 18. The article says 8:30 Eastern so I guess it will be a half hour show? I dunno. I plan to watch this one. They will reconstruct the crime scene and the original "investigators" will be on with new experts to see what the evidence looks like with modern forensics.
I'm not sure if I'll watch the Dr Phil show with Burke or not. I hate the quack and can't stand watching him.
^^^ It doesn't matter how flat you make a pancake... There's two sides.
I too was thinking the parents would have taken her out of the house, had they done this. That would be the smart thing to do. There weren't nearly as many security cams back then and much less chance of getting caught.
It's not about security cameras. There were neighbors close enough to have claimed that they heard a scream that night. Some neighbor said they saw the Ramsey's kitchen light on in the middle of the night. Neighbors do watch and chances are they would have seen the Ramseys take the child away. Even if they had just seen or heard the Ramseys drive off in their car in the middle of the night, it would have raised suspicion. The worst thing they could have done would have been to go out driving in the middle of the night. (Christmas night when everything is closed too!)
With murder there's always a motive. It's probably a big reason the Ramsey's were never charged. If it was a accident they would have called 911 not raped and strangled her with a wire on Christmas
Murder, yes. But in an accident, no. I would have thought they would have called 911 in the case of an accident but they didn't. Why not? No one really knows. Maybe something about the accident was incriminating. Or maybe they knew the person who did it and were trying to protect them. Maybe some other reason.
I think the killer was planning on kidnapping JB he was obsessed with her. Had probably been watching her in the pagents.
Could be. This is where it really gets murky with me. IF somebody was obsessed with her, then what? If the parents really didn't know who the person was and it really was a total surprise to them, why didn't they call 911 immediately? And why did Patsy lie and say that Jon Benet didn't eat pineapple in the kitchen when the police found a dish of pineapple in the kitchen? There was incompletely digested pineapple in her stomach.
Why did Patsy lie and say that Burke was in bed while she was on the phone for 911 when his voice is heard on recordings with them telling him to be quiet?
Why was Patsy apparently up all night long? No woman (I am a woman, btw) gets dressed up for a party and puts on the same dressed up outfit the next morning to go away on vacation. She would either have been still wearing her nightgown or she would have been wearing loose, casual clothing for the plane trip to the vacation home. Yet, that morning, she is still all dressed up in the same outfit she was wearing the previous night at the party, makeup and all.
The ransom amount and the garrote are the big unknowns.
Agree. Those are the biggies. And the weird "note" itself.
It COULD be possible that Patsy would have known how to make the garrote. I think they did find a murder mystery book on her nightstand. Maybe she did a lot of that sort of reading. You could learn things from those books. The person used Patsy's paint brush handle to make it. Maybe she was a crazy person--just because there's no record of it doesn't mean it's not possible. Haven't most of us known or heard of a crazy person who thinks they are normal and acts normal? OTOH, no porn was found in the house, not even on John's computer.
That "note" was identified as requiring the writer to have had at least a bachelor's degree. That's because it was well written, using advanced vocabulary and references. Patsy had a degree in journalism--she was a better than average writer.
Another tantalizing tidbit is that someone called 911 at the White's house during the party. There was a record of a 911 call being placed. Who and why? They hung up before saying anything. None of the adults seemed to know anything about it but young children are taught to call 911 when something is wrong. (just some more food for thought.)
I think the killer was planning on kidnapping JB he was obsessed with her. Had probably been watching her in the pagents.
Could be. This is where it really gets murky with me. IF somebody was obsessed with her, then what? If the parents really didn't know who the person was and it really was a total surprise to them, why didn't they call 911 immediately? And why did Patsy lie and say that Jon Benet didn't eat pineapple in the kitchen when the police found a dish of pineapple in the kitchen? There was incompletely digested pineapple in her stomach.
Also, if they had planned on kidnapping her, they'd have pre-planned how to get her out of that house without being seen. So even if they accidentally did kill her in the house, they would have been likely to just continue following their plan, and take her body out. She was a tiny, thin girl. Any grown person could easily carry her. Plus surely they knew that plenty of people collect ransom on dead people. If this was for ransom, they'd have taken her out, collected the money, and then disposed of her.
I don't think the plan was to take her out of that house in the first place.
If the parents really didn't know who the person was and it really was a total surprise to them, why didn't they call 911 immediately? And why did Patsy lie and say that Jon Benet didn't eat pineapple in the kitchen when the police found a dish of pineapple in the kitchen? There was incompletely digested pineapple in her stomach.
According to Patsy's transcripts, she came down the back staircase stepping over the letters then turned around picking them up and reading, before running up to get JR and then calling 911.
Now heres a cliche; in Johns transcripts he said he was showering and getting dressed ran down, picked the letters up laying them across the floor to read. Patsy says she handed John the letters. Johns finger prints were not on the ransom note.
As far as the bowl pineapple, I was hung up there as well. The only finger prints on the bowl and spoon, Patsy and Burke. So did she lie...I dont know.
Researched every aspect of this case last spring and summer when Jamison was posting in the other JB thread...
Whites house and the pineapple casserole is in Patsy's transcripts.
Can you provide the testimony regarding this "pineapple casserole"? This is the first I've heard of a casserole.
Here's the relevant exchange from Patsy's interview:
TOM HANEY: Is there some way to account for the pineapple in her body?
PATSY RAMSEY: Not to my knowledge, unless she -- you know, I can't remember what was served over at the White's. Does anybody know? Except there was crab. I remember crab.
Later:
TRIP DEMUTH: Someone would have had to serve her pineapple.
PATSY RAMSEY: It seems to me like that.
TRIP DEMUTH: The Whites have told us that they did not serve her pineapple.
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