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Old 01-12-2018, 09:53 AM
 
Location: In my skin
9,230 posts, read 16,517,749 times
Reputation: 9174

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Quote:
Originally Posted by virgode View Post
True, particularly in a case where there's no recollection of the assault. She knows her drinkings the contributing factor. I get the impression from her VIS, whether drunk or sober everything's done in excess.
I'm truly baffled by the draw toward the worst with an unknown. No reasonable person would prefer an assault over poor drunken judgment. But society has cemented a double standard when it comes to drinking. I couldn't blame any innocent man for lying. They also create and break victims before an assault even takes place with the idea that rape will "distort", "damage", "break" them. Brock got 3 months, "she gets a life sentence". So when it does happen, it becomes "I don’t want my body anymore. I was terrified of it". They bathe over and over because they feel dirty, scrubbing until they're raw. They are living the trauma that was actually created for them. That's not to say it isn't a violation, that it shouldn't hurt. But it doesn't have be what it has become for so many.

Quote:
Remorse expressed succumbing to the outrage isnt true remorse.
Agreed. What is he apologizing for exactly?

 
Old 01-12-2018, 10:21 AM
 
7,357 posts, read 11,720,704 times
Reputation: 8942
Quote:
Originally Posted by gg View Post
Again, they came upon this sex, but how the heck do they know she wasn't willing in her drunk state and then she passed out and the two eyewitnesses came upon this? That is reasonable doubt and you must acquit if that exists. How drunk was Brock himself? I would bet this is a drunk college sex thing gone wrong, not some premeditated rape. Brock sure is the poster boy for what many people love to hate. White swim team member in Stanford. People live to hate those that look like Brock these days. Gone are the days of admiring hard working kids like him. Anyway, this could easily be a drunk college mistake not rape.


That is not reasonable doubt. If she's drunk, and especially if she's unconscious, she's incapable of consenting to sex. If she's drunk and he has sex with her anyway, and someone saw it with their own eyes, you must convict. The fact that he would go ahead and have sex with an unconscious woman tells us a great deal about poor widdle Brock. He's looking for someone who can't possibly say no and who ideally won't even remember him the next day. That's not a boyfriend or even a one-night stand; that's rape.
 
Old 01-12-2018, 11:47 AM
 
1,532 posts, read 1,055,592 times
Reputation: 5207
Quote:
Originally Posted by enigmatico View Post
There's no question that Brock made a number of poor decisions that night. He's acknowledged that, and he's paying a very high price for them. I would argue that Emily Doe made an equal number of poor decisions that night, yet she's been hailed as a hero "to girls everywhere".

And let's bear in mind that Brock's name and the allegations against him were made public immediately, long before he was ever convicted of anything. Emily Doe's name has been protected from day one. Her name, even if Brock had been acquitted, would remain so. That fact alone reveals an obvious presumption of guilt. In contrast, Emily was presumed to be a victim, and treated as such, simply because she said so. You don't see anything wrong with all of this?
He had a trial. He was convicted. There were witnesses. A person who is drunk cannot give consent. Intoxication is not carte blanche for a man to do whatever he wants to a woman. Intoxication isn’t necessarily a crime. Assault is.

I am a woman who was brutally raped and beaten 47 years ago. I was NOT drinking. It is still with me. Nothing, absolutely nothing, was done to the man because of thinking like yours. So many men get away with bad behavior: rape, assault, harassment.

I have not one shred of sympathy for Brock Turner. Not one.
 
Old 01-12-2018, 12:26 PM
 
Location: Texas
13,480 posts, read 8,334,679 times
Reputation: 25947
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cliffie View Post
That is not reasonable doubt. If she's drunk, and especially if she's unconscious, she's incapable of consenting to sex. If she's drunk and he has sex with her anyway, and someone saw it with their own eyes, you must convict. The fact that he would go ahead and have sex with an unconscious woman tells us a great deal about poor widdle Brock. He's looking for someone who can't possibly say no and who ideally won't even remember him the next day. That's not a boyfriend or even a one-night stand; that's rape.
Agree. It's very sick to want to have sex or do something sexual with an unconscious person. It's very disgusting. I can't believe all these posters who are defending Brock and vilifying the victim.
 
Old 01-12-2018, 12:59 PM
 
Location: 39 20' 59"N / 75 30' 53"W
16,077 posts, read 28,497,719 times
Reputation: 18189
This Letter From The Stanford Sex Offender's Dad Epitomizes Rape Culture
Only in a rape culture can sexual assault be referred to as "20 minutes of action."

https://www.google.com/amp/s/m.huffp...593f14cb30/amp

Speaks to attitudes about women Turner was raised with.

Last edited by virgode; 01-12-2018 at 01:13 PM..
 
Old 01-12-2018, 02:54 PM
 
Location: Central Florida
3,658 posts, read 2,551,513 times
Reputation: 12289
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gusano View Post
He had a trial. He was convicted. There were witnesses. A person who is drunk cannot give consent. Intoxication is not carte blanche for a man to do whatever he wants to a woman. Intoxication isn’t necessarily a crime. Assault is.

I am a woman who was brutally raped and beaten 47 years ago. I was NOT drinking. It is still with me. Nothing, absolutely nothing, was done to the man because of thinking like yours. So many men get away with bad behavior: rape, assault, harassment.

I have not one shred of sympathy for Brock Turner. Not one.
I can't believe anyone can defend Brock. He got off easy and he still wants to appeal his conviction. He deserved many years in prison, but got 3 months. That's disgusting.

You are correct, so many men get away with this. My wife still has trauma over something that happened over 20 years ago. Her and people like you are my heroes. You are dealing with something I could never imagine.
 
Old 01-12-2018, 03:12 PM
 
35,521 posts, read 17,818,962 times
Reputation: 50529
Quote:
Originally Posted by PriscillaVanilla View Post
True. What I've seen is that rape has traditionally been the only crime where the victim was expected to accept some responsibility (based on what they wore, how they acted, etc). Victims of other types of crimes, such as theft, don't have their personal lives being dragged into the courtroom.
Yes. Rape IS the only crime where you have to question the responsibility/communication of the victim. Because it's a crime when people don't consent to the activity, since sex is an activity that obviously many people consent to. So when you have a rape victim come forward it is important to determine whether the act was consensual, or if the perpetrator could have believed it to be consensual.

No other crime has that component because no one ever consents to participating in being beaten, stabbed, robbed, etc.

Rape is a unique crime, in that it's a behavior that people willingly engage in. But it becomes a crime when it's not a willing choice.
 
Old 01-12-2018, 03:15 PM
 
2,020 posts, read 1,115,109 times
Reputation: 6047
Quote:
Originally Posted by ClaraC View Post

Rape is a unique crime, in that it's a behavior that people willingly engage in. But it becomes a crime when it's not a willing choice.
Or the victim is unable to give consent.
 
Old 01-12-2018, 03:15 PM
 
Location: Texas
13,480 posts, read 8,334,679 times
Reputation: 25947
Quote:
Originally Posted by ClaraC View Post
Yes. Rape IS the only crime where you have to question the responsibility/communication of the victim. Because it's a crime when people don't consent to the activity, .
No, this is wrong. There are plenty of other crimes where a person could claim they had "consent", including theft, trespass on someone's property, kidnapping someone's child, etc.
 
Old 01-12-2018, 03:18 PM
 
2,020 posts, read 1,115,109 times
Reputation: 6047
Quote:
Originally Posted by ClaraC View Post
No other crime has that component because no one ever consents to participating in being beaten, stabbed, robbed, etc.
Drug dealers can be charged with murder when a person they sold drugs to dies of an overdose.

A person can be charged with murder if they are drag racing and their passenger dies as a result of an accident.
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