Wow (Tucson, Pima: appointed, house, neighborhood)

[Philosophizer]

Tucson SWAT Team Defends Shooting Iraq Marine Veteran 60 Times - ABC News

This is pretty scary stuff. WTF is going on in Tucson?

[OurNextAdventure]

There is a pretty big uproar about it. They were not justified at all for what they had done. He was trying to protect his family and home. But, like any type of law enforcement these days, they will not be reprimanded to an acceptable degree. The man will save them.

[keninaz]

Why not, it seems our politicians can do no wrong for many years now and when they do they are not punished.
Leadership by example.

[mglindo]

This is so sad! Surviving two tours in Iraq, only to be murdered protecting his home. This did not happen very often before the creation of SWAT teams. Are our rights being violated here? I think so! Did they loudly call out that they were "peace" officers? I believe a great injustice has been done here! Rest in peace Marine!

[chazk14]

I just don't see why he had to pull out his rifle. The last thing I would want to do if swat came was pull out a rifle. I wish this could have ended more peacefully.

[karibear]

Originally Posted by CinSonic

I just don't see why he had to pull out his rifle. The last thing I would want to do if swat came was pull out a rifle. I wish this could have ended more peacefully.

From what I've read, the SWATs didn't identify themselves, just burst in. Generally speaking, when a group of unknown people kick in one's door, it's legal to protect one's property and family. Besides, the safety was on, on his gun and one would also expect 'trained' cops to see that. Instead they fired 71 rounds at him. What I found most disturbing was the lack of medical attention for him - it was something like a hour later when the ambulance waiting outside was informed he was dead, without ever having an opportunity to see him. It took only 13 minutes to secure the scene and get Giffords to the hospital.

It doesn't make a pretty picture, but similar things go on across the entire country regularly, it's not just in Tucson by any means.

[jksn75]

Playing devil's advocate here...no one seems to mention this guy was involved with a violent home invasion crew. Cops don't just burst into someone's home for no reason. A judge reviews the investigation and signs off on a warrant. There has to be pretty darn good evidence/probably cause to get that warrant. Karibear, trained cops should have noticed the safety was on?? That's an unacceptable statement and someone actually "trained" in weapons would know better. You cannot see that little button so far away. NO one can, especially in that situation/lighting/angle. Besides, it takes less than a second to take it off safety. People need to put themselves in a cop's shoes...if you are serving a warrant on a potentially violent criminal and when entering, you suddenly have a rifle pointed at you, are you going to make sure YOU go home that night, or get shot because you were hoping he wouldn't pull the trigger first? It's a terrible tragedy this happened and I feel badly for his family. I've seen SWAT...they are very clearly marked and do yell "police." Of course his wife is going to say they didn't announce themselves. They killed her husband, why on earth would she be on the cops side? The papers have even said she saw police outside the window before they entered the house. The cops knew he was part of a home invasion crew. I'm thinking they would surely announce themselves so he didn't think that an invasion was happening to him too? I just wish people would wait to get the facts before condemning the police. Cops have a very tough and dangerous job with very little community support. I also don't know many law abiding citizens who have photos of narco-saints in their homes....

[Bummer]

THANK YOU, jksn

I find it very disturbing and downright disgusting that these "self appointed experts" are so quick to SLAM the cops even though they have no clue exactly what happened. These guys put their lives on the line each and every day for our safety and this is the appreciation and respect we show in return.

I have a feeling there's much more to this story than what our lopsided media is reporting.

On the flip side . . . only a brain dead thug, Marine or otherwise, would point an assault rifle at a SWAT Team.

[mglindo]

Okay now, I'm going to stick my neck out on this one. From the ABC link furnished in the first post, it said only that she saw, "gunmen", that's all. From that alone, I say he had the right to protect his family! As far as the SWAT team declaring, "police", that is their word against the surviving spouse. I have heard of SWAT teams breaking into the wrong house as I'm sure you have too! I didn't see anywhere where it said this Marine belonged to a "home invasion crew"! And by the way, in no way have I declared myself a, "self appointed expert"! I find that pretty hilarious though. Tickled my funny bone that one!

[vjsoto]

REGARDLESS of whether or not the SWAT team identified themselves the guy should have been IMMEDIATELY transported to a hospital after the house was cleared. Leaving him to die while is wife and kid looked on for over an hour was the real tragedy, and the police are ABSOLUTELY guilty of negligent manslaughter. Criminally negligent manslaughter occurs where there is an omission to act when there is a duty to do so, or a failure to perform a duty owed, which leads to a death.

I absolutely respect police and what they have to deal with on a daily basis, but at the same time, along with that respect comes the responsibility and the accountability to act accordingly in all situations. If they show a lack of responsibility and accountability, they will also loose respect. I think this case will do a lot of damage to the credibility of the PIMA county Sheriff's office as well as to the Tucson police.

The rest is purely speculative at this point. With the records locked up and the details of the warrant unavailable, there isn't much you can say. There is one point though that makes me believe that the guy thought it was a home invasion. According to the wife AND several neighbors, there was NO indication that police were in the neighborhood serving a warrant. There were no lights or sirens, and so I think there is a legitimate self-defense case.