What if Southern Arizona joined New Mexico? (Phoenix, Tucson: transplants, 2014)

[Pink Jazz]

I know secession from Arizona has been talked about for years in Tucson, however, rather than forming a new state, does anyone think that it isn't out of the realm of possibility that Southern Arizona would join New Mexico instead?

It does seem that both Tucson and Albuquerque are culturally similar. Tucson definitely seems to be more similar to Albuquerque than it is to Phoenix, that is for sure.

I know joining New Mexico doesn't make geographic sense, since it would distort the clean shape of New Mexico. However, Michigan is split into two portions, where it seems that the Upper Peninsula should be part of Wisconsin geographically speaking.

[beTucsonan]

Well most reasonable folks consider it well outside of the realm of possibility for "Baja Arizona" to ever really happen in the first place. I think adding a second nearly impossible thing, like subsequently adding Baja Arizona to an existing state seems to be removing ourselves even further from reality.

But, for the sake of conversation, what would be the point? Why leave a larger construct simply in order to join another one? While New Mexico and Tucson may be more similar culturally, politically, etc., than Tucson and Phoenix, that doesn't mean it would be useful or good for them to join forces.

And just as a point of history in case somebody didn't know, but Arizona was all at one point a part of the New Mexico Territory, save for Southern Arizona which was Mexico at the time. During the civil war, in fact, when Southern Arizona was part of the United States, it was called "Arizona" along with what is now Southern New Mexico while present-day Northern Arizona and and Northern New Mexico were combined to form "New Mexico." And as Arizona at that time we joined up with the Confederacy (oops).

[bongo_x]

I’m in. NM might as well take El Paso too while we’re at it.

[AlaskaErik]

Originally Posted by bongo_x

I’m in. NM might as well take El Paso too while we’re at it.

El Paso is about 30 miles of filthy nasty. No way would I want it to be part of my state.

[azdr0710]

Originally Posted by AlaskaErik

El Paso is about 30 miles of filthy nasty. No way would I want it to be part of my state.

drifting precariously off-topic here, but you'd be surprised at what a great place El Paso is if you get off the interstate (gee, sounds like Tucson, too)...in fact:

El Paso Ranked No. 1 Safest City in America for Fourth Year | El Paso 411

[atlaw]

What a bad idea. Propagated by transplants to Tucson IMO. On 2/24/1863 the Arizona Organic Act split the old NM Territory I believe. Arizona is totally different than NM in almost every way politically. Both are neat places and should stay that way.

[WilmaWildcat]

The 1860 Tucson US census is pretty darned cool. It has 24 pages and starts page 1 listing the personnel at the Overland Mail Station. On the first line is John Quinn, stage driver, born in New York state.

The title at the top of the page reads:

"Schedule 1: Free Inhabitants in Tucson in the County of Arizona Territory of N[ew] Mexico enumerated by me, on the 22nd Day of July, 1860, Dav. J Miller, ass't marshal. Post Office: Tucson"

They said it that way, because before emancipation, there was a separate schedule for slaves.

I am looking at the document at Ancestry; I have an account, but if one goes to the library they can probably use the library's account to view it. Not sure how they do it. Family Search does not have this census, but Fold 3 apparently also does.

Any Tucson history lover can get loads of fun browsing census records. :-) All the notable and famous figures are in it over the years.

P.S. I can imagine how hot it was that 22nd of July while Dave was going around getting his info. Maybe it rained monsoon rain on him!

Tucson was not the only location covered in the 1860 US census in Arizona County, New Mexico:

Agna Rais
Arenal
Arivaca Mines
Arizona City
Between Tucson and Gila City
Cachanillo
Cahuabi Mines
Calabazas
Camp Jecker
Casa Blanca
Cerrito
Cerro Chiquito
Copper Mines
Fort Buchanan
Fort Mojave
Gila
Hormiguero
Hueso Parado
La Laguna
Llano
Longrena Mines
Lower Santa Cruz
Middle Santa Cruz
Patagonia Silver Mines
Potrero
Sacaton
San Havier
San Pedro
San Pedro Silver Mines
Santa Rita Silver Mines
Sierra Colorado Mines
Sonoita
Sonorita Creek Settlement
Sopori Settlement
Tubac
Tucson
Upper Santa Cruz

[JGMotorsport64]

I've always thought the politics in this town were ridiculous. Lets get real.

Tucson couldn't bolster a state economy, it can't even bolster itself, it struggles to compete with almost any similarly sized city, lacks amenities and has one of the worst GDPs for a city of it's size. Albuquerque was more similar to Phoenix than Tucson was but their all very similar at the same time. Albuquerque should be a model for Tucson moving forward, a city that has handled itself by attracting legitimate employers, grown a decent infastructure and with a smaller university.

[bongo_x]

We’re talking about the Albuquerque in New Mexico. You should check it out.

[JGMotorsport64]

Originally Posted by bongo_x

We’re talking about the Albuquerque in New Mexico. You should check it out.

I did it's nice place, great planned roads, clean set up nice downtown district while preserving itself historically.