City-Data Forum For those of you who look to relocate to Tucson, AZ in 2008... (Phoenix: HOA, crimes)
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01-29-2009, 11:49 PM
 Location: Tucson, AZ 9 posts, read 31,475 times Reputation: 34
The homicide rate in Tucson in 2007 was 54. In 2008, that number has skyrocketed to 104. That equates roughly to 19.4 murders per 100,000 people (at a population of 535,000). If you know anything about math, that is an easy equation to solve. 100,000/535,000=x/104 If you compare this to the 516 murders in New York City in 2008 (516) at an estimated population of 8.4 million, and use the same formulation 100,000/8,400,000=x/516, it equates to 6.1 murders per 100,000 people. I'm not saying that Tucson is the worst place in the U.S. to live, I'm just saying that it is pathetic that per capita our murder rate was 3x that of NYC in 2008. For our relatively small size in comparison to much larger cities like NYC, it may be shocking to many people. Being the OP, I never intended this to become a debate on whether or not this happens in other cities, or if Tucson is the worst place on earth, or that most crime is related to this or that. I simply wanted people to consider this widely unknown-to-outsiders fact. I am getting out of the community I have been in to move into a much better area. I have to stay in Tucson for the next few years to attend trials and such - so I am not free to move to another state that is "less violent". I will be getting my CCW permit shortly, and will be armed at all times. I am doing what I can in my community to keep myself and my son as safe as possible...but one person cannot change the world. And, sadly, either those like me who want a change for the better aren't doing what they should or they don't exist. Being a single mom of a 5 month old now, finishing school, trying to get legal processes completed, and being involved with the trials for my fiance's 3 murderers, and following through with a civil suit to protect other cab drivers in this state, I simply cannot find the time to organize those in this city - or even in my neighborhood - at this time, but I hope to find time for this in the near future. I thank those of you who have expressed your condolences for this senseless murder. The kindness is greatly appreciated. This post is, after all, my opinion to consider all of the facts before moving to Tucson. I'm not saying that it is bad here - I was born and raised in Arizona, and plan on staying in state. (Although AOL rated Arizona as the #5 most dangerous state in the country.) I don't want anyone to move here and be blindsided by the amount of violent (and nonviolent, for that matter) crimes.

01-30-2009, 11:03 AM
 Location: (Lyndon) Louisville KY USA 5,194 posts, read 10,367,384 times Reputation: 3084
I think more than a Tucson problem this is an America problem. From sea to shining sea we have thousands of people murdered every year over incredibly senseless things. In Louisville KY (where I go to college) to 5 year old girls were ran over in a crosswalk by a driving in a stolen car fleeing police - all this happened right in front of their grandma. Last month a Sudanese store owner was shot at point blank range after his clothing store in a rough West Louisville neighborhood was robbed for drug money. Things like this are happening all the time in every major American city - WHY?

I think most violence in minority communities is traced back to Rap Music. We have Top 40 Hit "songs" with lyrics like "I caught him with a blow to the chest - my hollow put a hole in his chest" and "I'm the reason your block is vacant - I'll hit you just to make a statement." Young Black and Hispanic men are conditioned to think that shooting people, killing snitches, and using women is how you prove you're a man. We should all be outraged that soongs like these below are not banned.

YouTube - ludacris cry babies (Oh No) ft. Scarface

YouTube - Baby ft. Clipse - What Happened To That Boy

As for your son, you should know it is possible for him to grow up right with the support from your family. My father was a wife beating alcoholic who shot and killed himself when I was 6 months old. My mother died of cancer when I was 11. Because of the love, support, and guidance from my family I was still able to grow into a responsible, well mannered man even without having any father and losing my mother at a young age.

01-30-2009, 11:37 AM
 Location: Tucson, AZ 9 posts, read 31,475 times Reputation: 34
I completely agree with you that this is an American problem rather than a specific-city problem. I don't think attacking music is the way to go, though. I think the problem is much deeper than that. Haven't people been attaching Eminem, Marilyn Manson, and the like for years now? No need to bring up any Tipper Gore references I hope...but I digress. I think it is the lack of good, involved parenting and elder guidance coupled with the terrifying status of most schools in this country. Having been overseas, in Western Europe, I can tell you that most of the people I knew in college would have been intellectually inferior to some GRADE SCHOOLERS I met over there. That makes me want to cry for my son. In this country if you want to learn, you can get much out of the school system; if you don't want to learn, you can easily coast through or just drop out with little consequence. I truly think the quality and level of parenting at home is at the heart of why the youth of America are seriously F***** up today. The love of learning starts at an early age, before children even start school. It's time for parents to take the initial responsibility and for schools to receive more funding so they can take over effectively afterwards. To those parents who say they don't have time, I call bulls**t. I take classes at home for medical transcription, was searching for a place to move into until last week, am packing for a move, preparing to go through the process to get my late fiance's name added to my son's birth certificate, attending 3 seperate trials over the next several months, filing a civil suit, cooking meals, trying to have a little me time, and I STILL make time every day to play with, talk to, and READ to my son. He's 5 months old, and I have been reading to him every day since he was born. Anyway, what I was originally getting to is that...I listen to many different kinds of music, including some rap and a ton of heavy metal. Does that mean I'm going to go out and kill people or am a satanist because I listen to death metal? Of course not. I have been raised to know that music is just music just like movies are just movies, and video games are just video games. If you are raised in a fashion that you're thinking music is a handbook to life, the problem stems back to the parenting, not the music. Censusdata, I commend you for what you have had to endure in your life. Remember that everything we have had to experience makes us a stronger person. My son has a woderful, loving, LARGE extended family that will always be his #1 fans.

01-30-2009, 12:29 PM
 Location: (Lyndon) Louisville KY USA 5,194 posts, read 10,367,384 times Reputation: 3084
My point about music is that it helps normalize violent behavior. A nation's music comes from the heart of its culture and America's culture has been often based on violence. As a child I had toy guns, including a toy machine gun, and would play games where you pretend to shot someone and they play dead. I also watched shows about the Wild West were you could cavalierly kill a man and show no remorse. What useful purpose does that serve?

Other countries have violent movies and music too, but they probably have better family structures to keep kids from getting into trouble. There are several great documentaries about why America has a higher crime rate than Canada and Europe, including Bowling for Columbine and Tough Guise, both of which I watch in my college's WMST 101 class.

I am glad I live in a city that has where violent crime is rare. The entire Lexington Metro area only have 15 murders last year in an area of 500,000 people. It's a shame every city in this nation couldn't be like that.

01-30-2009, 03:47 PM
 Location: western Chicago suburbs hopefully soon Tucson 361 posts, read 678,208 times Reputation: 308
Quote:
 I completely agree with you that this is an American problem rather than a specific-city problem. I don't think attacking music is the way to go, though. I think the problem is much deeper than that. Haven't people been attaching Eminem, Marilyn Manson, and the like for years now? No need to bring up any Tipper Gore references I hope...but I digress. I think it is the lack of good, involved parenting and elder guidance coupled with the terrifying status of most schools in this country. Having been overseas, in Western Europe, I can tell you that most of the people I knew in college would have been intellectually inferior to some GRADE SCHOOLERS I met over there. That makes me want to cry for my son. In this country if you want to learn, you can get much out of the school system; if you don't want to learn, you can easily coast through or just drop out with little consequence. I truly think the quality and level of parenting at home is at the heart of why the youth of America are seriously F***** up today. The love of learning starts at an early age, before children even start school. It's time for parents to take the initial responsibility and for schools to receive more funding so they can take over effectively afterwards. To those parents who say they don't have time, I call bulls**t. I take classes at home for medical transcription, was searching for a place to move into until last week, am packing for a move, preparing to go through the process to get my late fiance's name added to my son's birth certificate, attending 3 seperate trials over the next several months, filing a civil suit, cooking meals, trying to have a little me time, and I STILL make time every day to play with, talk to, and READ to my son. He's 5 months old, and I have been reading to him every day since he was born. Anyway, what I was originally getting to is that...I listen to many different kinds of music, including some rap and a ton of heavy metal. Does that mean I'm going to go out and kill people or am a satanist because I listen to death metal? Of course not. I have been raised to know that music is just music just like movies are just movies, and video games are just video games. If you are raised in a fashion that you're thinking music is a handbook to life, the problem stems back to the parenting, not the music. Censusdata, I commend you for what you have had to endure in your life. Remember that everything we have had to experience makes us a stronger person. My son has a woderful, loving, LARGE extended family that will always be his #1 fans.
Very well said. I agree that it is the family that determins how kids grow up too. Too many parents neglect their kids from the beginning. My wife works in a nursing home and she is appaled at how few family members actually come and visit their parents or grandparents. I believe this is because that was the way that those people brought up their kids. They were quick to push off their kids because they had something else to do so now their kids are putting them aside.

Kids learn from their parents and or the people they grow up with. If they are treated poorly and continually shown how to mistreat others they will do the same.

As for music or TV shows, I think kids can be influenced by these but i also think it is the parents responsibility to limit the exposure and to teach them that it is just thet, music and TV. I grew up during the Vietnam war and my parents watched the news about it every day at dinner. I watched cartoons that some consider too violent and I have listened to all kinds of metal music and I like Rob Zombie) and I don't go out and kill people or rob people or beat people. Why, because my parents taught me right from wrong and that you need to work for what you want.

01-30-2009, 05:39 PM
 3 posts, read 8,098 times Reputation: 12
Ok, I read through most of the posts on this thread. Now I'll give you my perspective. Society breeds it's own problems. When parents are punished for trying to raise their children right and CPS steps in and calls it child abuse, what is a parent supposed to do?? Spanking a child on their hind end IS NOT abuse. Putting a child in a corner IS NOT abuse. When a child stands up and takes a swng at their parents and they get knocked down, it IS NOT abuse. What I went through growing up was abuse, yet I am not a violent person. I listen to heavy metal music and watch UFC. Yet I am not a violent person.

When a person commits a capital crime and get a slap on the wrist, why should they care? I can remember when murder got a death penalty. Now every excuse in the book is used to blame someone else for their crime.

If you really want to put a stop to violent crime, reinstate the death penalty and USE IT! ENFORCE the laws we have on the books. Start holding those who commit crimes accountable for their behavior, even if it warrants their execution. Of course, when you have a party that wants to give convicts their right to vote back while they are still in prison, what would you expect.

01-30-2009, 05:50 PM
 1,082 posts, read 1,113,322 times Reputation: 550
Quote:
 Originally Posted by InLovingMemoryTimRoyce The homicide rate in Tucson in 2007 was 54. In 2008, that number has skyrocketed to 104.
Does anyone know if there were other metro areas that saw homicides nearly double from the previous year?

01-30-2009, 06:29 PM
 Location: Tucson, AZ 9 posts, read 31,475 times Reputation: 34
I agree that disciplining a child is a good thing, DragonsBane, children shouldn't be taking a swing at their parents in the first place. My parents never once raised a hand to me. My father sat me down and told me he was disappointed in me - which was FAR worse than a physical punishment. I believe that children should be reasoned with so that they understand what exactly about what they did was wrong. I don't think a spanking will be my approach - but I also agree that it is NOT child abuse.

I also agree that the judicial system is lacking in many areas. Part of this is (I believe) due to the extraordinary amount of minor offenders getting ridiculous sentences. The prisons are too crowded and the rapists, murderers, and child molesters get out in a few years time. This - to me - is a crime in itself. I don't see why someone is caught with too much marijuana and is given 20 years and a rapist is out in 5. Wow, yeah, someone smoking weed is so much more dangerous (sarcasm intended). Personally, I don't, but I still don't see weed killing anyone...maybe just making them hungry and lazy. (I do not include the use of harder, more dangerous drugs in this statement.) Arizona does have the death penalty - and the gunman that shot my fiance will be standing trial this summer facing the death penalty. (Probably while he holds the rosary he had on when SWAT took them...go ahead and call yourself a Christian after you do something like that to an innocent person - he'll rot in hell.) We would go for the death penalty on the other 2 involved, but one is 16 and the other has too low of an IQ, and law prohibits charging a minor/mentally inept person with the death penalty. I also watched Bowling For Columbine, censusdata - very good documentary.

01-30-2009, 06:52 PM
 Location: (Lyndon) Louisville KY USA 5,194 posts, read 10,367,384 times Reputation: 3084
The thing that surprised me about Bowling for Columbine is that it really just asks "Why" the US as a more violent crime rather than given a definite answer. While Michael Moore and a Columbine survivor pushes for some gun control while at the same time pointing out that Canadians also have lots of guns (and also violent music/ tv shows). I had heard it was a very left wing anti gun type of film, but I found it to be very pragmatic.

On a slightly different topic... InLovingMemory do you know if your state (or others) offers free counseling services for family of homicide victims? I am going to be a social worker and always wonder after watching a show like First 48 if there is anyone there for the family afterward.

01-30-2009, 06:55 PM
 Location: western Chicago suburbs hopefully soon Tucson 361 posts, read 678,208 times Reputation: 308
The murder numbers posted above are not actually comparable. In 2007 there were 54 murders in Tucson. In 2008 there were 74 murders in Tucson. There were 104 murders in the total Tucson metro area. I haven't found tha number for the Tucson metro area for 2007 yet.

Not to say that 74 is good, but the thing about statistics is it is very easy to slant data. A direct comparison is 54--2007 vs 74--2008. The difference is that between 2007 and 2008 the murder rate incerased by about 37%. If you use 104 the increase would be about 95%. That's quite a difference.

The Tucson metro area includes all of the cities surrounding Tucson including South Tucson. (which only had 2 murders in 2008)
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