Crosstown Freeway (Phoenix, Tucson, Green Valley: crime, neighborhood, live in)

[sierraAZ]

Originally Posted by azhiker

I'd like to hear your proposed routes, too.

I already did. But if it's to be only one, it's probably best if it runs East/West in the middle (N/S-wise) of the city. It's not like I enjoy endless construction work for years, but the current situation is simply not viable. And now that everything's build-out in these areas I can't even imagine how it can happen... Should've been done long time ago.

[sierraAZ]

Oh, btw, I wouldn't have believed it, but it seems that gas prices have had impact on traffic. The last few weeks I've been wondering what in the world is going on on Houghton as this area is not really too effected by snowbirds IMO as there aren't many townhouses and condos. They might have 2nd homes, though... who knows... Now I can't make a right turn from Old Spanish onto Houghton because it's backed up all the way to Golf Links. What could've changed in such short period of time? I was reading a discussion suggesting that and it might very well be true. I moved out here in March and gas prices were escalating ever since and traffic wasn't that bad. Of course, on Houghton it takes only one crawling jerk to block a long street.

[miamiman]

My proposed route would take a TREMENDOUS amount of work and negotiation. I would create a below-grade loop by turning Grant and Kolb into a freeway loop (or more of an arc). The freeway would follow the existing paths of Grant and Kolb. Grant already curves down into Kolb, so that's why I think it makes the most sense. Interchanges could be at Campbell, Alvernon, Craycroft, Tanque Verde, Speedway, Broadway, 22nd, Golf Links, and Irvington, and Valencia. So my proposed freeway would start at I-10 and Grant and end at I-10 and Kolb.

For those who are against the freeway, what do you think should be done to solve the metropolitan area's traffic issues? Should we widen surface streets more? Should we increase the speed limits going E-W along the major streets to 45 or 50? Or should we do nothing?

[michael krotchie]

I'd like for this to happen but I'm not sure how feasible it is at this stage. I'm thinking the best we're going to get is the Grant Road widening, and of course it isn't even slated to begin construction until 2013. A Grant/Kolb freeway loop would be heavenly from a driver's standpoint but that would never happen.

If the proposed I-10 Bypass is ever approved/started it would definitely be a step in the right direction. It's still a nebulous idea at this point but let's keep our fingers crossed. Less semis on the freeway would help immensely IMO.

I'll tell you what. If Tucson ever spearheaded an enhanced public transportation system (subway, lightrail?) I'd be all for it. Less congestion on the streets would mean better travel time for drivers, and it may be the solution for everyone. But who knows..

[sierraAZ]

Originally Posted by michael krotchie

I'll tell you what. If Tucson ever spearheaded an enhanced public transportation system (subway, lightrail?) I'd be all for it. Less congestion on the streets would mean better travel time for drivers, and it may be the solution for everyone. But who knows..

Now that will happen right after hell freezes over!

[miamiman]

Originally Posted by michael krotchie

I'd like for this to happen but I'm not sure how feasible it is at this stage. I'm thinking the best we're going to get is the Grant Road widening, and of course it isn't even slated to begin construction until 2013. A Grant/Kolb freeway loop would be heavenly from a driver's standpoint but that would never happen.

If the proposed I-10 Bypass is ever approved/started it would definitely be a step in the right direction. It's still a nebulous idea at this point but let's keep our fingers crossed. Less semis on the freeway would help immensely IMO.

I'll tell you what. If Tucson ever spearheaded an enhanced public transportation system (subway, lightrail?) I'd be all for it. Less congestion on the streets would mean better travel time for drivers, and it may be the solution for everyone. But who knows..

I just think that congestion in Tucson will get to a point where something will HAVE to be done. The more time that goes by where nothing is done, the more difficult it will be to make changes. This will likely not happen in the near future, but there will be a day when the city of Tucson has 1 million people. Our infrastructure system is overloaded for a city of 530,000. Imagine 1 million?

I think light rail would be a nice complement to infrastructure projects for automobiles. Tucson, like most cities in the west, is a city of drivers. I am not sure light rail would pull enough people out of their cars to actually have a huge effect on congestion.

I think the bypass around Tucson is a bad idea. In addition to carrying truck traffic, many long distance drivers will opt to take the bypass. This would reduce the number of travelers who spend the night at hotels near the freeway, who visit Tucson area sites, and who spend money in Tucson. I have heard people saying that it might construct a second deck on I-10, with the upper deck having limited off ramps in Tucson. That deck would be reserved mainly for the truck traffic. Double decking I-10, IMO, would look pretty bad, but there really aren't many other options.

[Jimrob1]

I don't live in Tucson, but have visited several times. During those visits it is obvious how auto dependent the area is, as well as the long driving distances. These distances it seems for many are on long surface streets. Traffic all backed up, light after light, high speed drivers obviouly driving fast because they feel the need to be on a fwy. The infrastructure does not seem to fit a metro area of over 1 million, and one wonders why this has been allowed so long. It seems to still be 1970 in Tucson at least road wise and yet there are thousands more people there now. I am not an advocate for auto dependence in cities to begin with, but even I can see the huge need for this Crosstown fwy. For that matter any fwy that would improve on the serious lack of infrastructure that prevents getting from A to B with any efficiency. Basically if a place makes it clear it wants to be auto dependent and remain that way, then naturally the roads have to be built.

[Bummer]

Originally Posted by Jimrob1

I don't live in Tucson, but have visited several times. During those visits it is obvious how auto dependent the area is, as well as the long driving distances. These distances it seems for many are on long surface streets. Traffic all backed up, light after light, high speed drivers obviouly driving fast because they feel the need to be on a fwy. The infrastructure does not seem to fit a metro area of over 1 million, and one wonders why this has been allowed so long. It seems to still be 1970 in Tucson at least road wise and yet there are thousands more people there now. I am not an advocate for auto dependence in cities to begin with, but even I can see the huge need for this Crosstown fwy. For that matter any fwy that would improve on the serious lack of infrastructure that prevents getting from A to B with any efficiency. Basically if a place makes it clear it wants to be auto dependent and remain that way, then naturally the roads have to be built.

Definitely not just road wise, Jimrob!

and for most of us . . . THE ATTRACTION!

! ! ! ! ! !

[Clnconcpts]

Originally Posted by psulions2007

We need about 3 freeways:

A loop around the city from Marana to near where Houghton hits I-10.

A central E-W Freeway, possibly starting on the south end of downtown at I-10, heading eastwards to the "loop".

A central N-S Freeway, near/parallel to Kino/Campbell.

Marana to houghton Why not just take I-10.It would be the straightest route instead of a loop

I think a fwy replacing golf links would have more benefits.


I like the idea of a loop fwy that goes houghton/I10 to tangue verde to however far n/w you want it to go

[azhiker]

Originally Posted by Clnconcpts

...
I like the idea of a loop fwy that goes houghton/I10 to tangue verde to however far n/w you want it to go

This is closer to what I think would work too.

I want to clarify my "NO" vote of yesterday. What I really mean is no to a freeway that cuts into what I regard as the core area of the city that gives it its unique charm.

And there is a component that touches on what some of us Tucson appreciaters would consider the charm of the city. Many people (some of whom post on this board) don't see any charm to Tucson at all. Well, I do, and there's an area that I would like to see remain untouched by a freeway(s). I'll try to roughly define that area.

Outside of that area, there could be a few freeways that would be beneficial to moving traffic. Also, thinking long term, it seems clear that Tucson is going to become huge. I think it's safe to say that the land encompassed by I-10 from the Tortolitas, all the way around to Vail, will eventually be all filled up. And even beyond that, down by Sahuarita and Green Valley will become well populated as well. And even further, up by Catalina and eventually Oracle will become far more populous.

I'll just limit what I think might be a good idea to the area inside the I-10 loop. I think they could make a new inner loop that would connect to Oracle Rd at around Tangerine. It can loop southward to around Tangerine and La Cholla, swing south and then cut in and run roughly parallel to Stone/Euclid, somehow hook up with that little spur of highway that presently goes from Golf Links to Broadway, then east all the way out to Houghton, and hook north up to Speedway.

I'd also have a north/south spur that went off that loop from about Craycroft and Golf Links, and run it up north to about Grant.

With one exception, I would not wish to scar up anything north of Grant.

That exception being the area south of Prince and West of First that is north of Grant. It's out outside the area of 'charm' that I wouldn't care about putting a freeway into. Beyond that though, I wouldn't want anything north of Grant to be sullied by a freeway.

Anyway, just wanted to clarify that I'm against a freeway that would encroach the area that I think defines the area of what is charming about Tucson, but that outside that area, we need a freeway and maybe a few spurs off it inside the I-10 framework.

The areas that utterly lack charm are fair game for freeways (and I realize this is in the eye of the beholder).

Roughly mapped out, my no freeway zone would be the following:

In the NW, I'll start at La Canada and Ina. Going south from there, the untouchable area moves a little east at around Prince to First.

Going East/West, I wouldn't want a freeway anything north of 22nd (but probably Golf Links is more practical), but would allow for a spur from Craycroft and Golf Links up to Grant (the only encroachment up into untouchable territory).

On the east end of the loop (now going N/S) seems like it ought to be at about Houghton and go up to Tanque Verde. That part gets a little tough to handle, because it's quite nice up there. I might end it at Houghton and Speedway instead of all the way up to Tanque Verde.

I think freeways such as these could be a big benefit without ruining the areas that give Tucson its unique charm.

Long winded as usual, but that's my story and I'm stickin' to it.