I can no longer say I enjoy living here (Tucson: real estate market, school districts)

[Marcy1210]

My son is at Pima CC and is in all remedial classes for the sheer fact he can't read, write, do math or science higher than a 6th grade level. He was accepted at UofA with abysmal SAT scores, and we were shocked. We didn't let him go to U of A, rather enrolled him in Pima to get him somewhat up to standard. It'll take him 3 years, but he's willing to do the work. So much of his reading and writing has to do with years of texting, math, who knows? He was educated in a private school in Colorado and still graduated as an illiterate. Even our 35 and 32 year old daughters--married with children--one of whom is the wife of a Lt. Col. can't write or spell to save their lives. They too, were private school educated. In order for schools to qualify under No Child Left Behind, many, many schools fudged their scores by excluding special needs kids, marginal kids and scoring only the top 10% of each classroom. It backfired and most of our kids are the victims of that. Don't blame the kids, blame the schools, teachers and parents. Ultimately, it's their responsibility to make sure the kids are on track.

[vegaspilgrim]

Originally Posted by psulions2007

I cannot feel empathy for this state...its citizens...or anything it/they stand(s) for. This state was built on a giant pit of sand...and somehow, that pit of sand works its way through the veins of everyday life here...the way the government acts, the way business is conducted, the education system, and even the way people live their lives. It is all in a giant pit of hot, hellish sand.

I don't know where you live, but it obviously isn't Tucson. Tucson isn't surrounded by sand. It's surrounded by this:



This is sand:



(imperial valley, California)

Ignorance. (then again, what do you expect from the Nittany Kittens?)

[azhiker]

Originally Posted by psulions2007

You're kidding...right?

Of course I'm kidding. Whoever wrote that abomination to you should never have graduated 6th grade, let alone be allowed to attend college.

It was a poor jab at relativism, where no behavior (in this case language) can be judged any better than any other. If you don't have the same standards for everybody, the lowest common denominator ends up as the standard. In the effort to mandate that nobody fails, standards are so lowered that kids are moved through the system that should not be. This is especially true if there are any disparate outcomes. Standards just keep getting lowered, and you end up with... someone who submits the type of letter/email that you received. A pathetic state of affairs.

The more money the merrier for education, but at least know that there is not necessarily a direct correlation between per pupil spending and academic performance. Look at D.C. and NYC public schools as exhibits A and B.

A long time ago, when you'd watch TV, people spoke reasonably well, with pretty good grammar. You'd think that those who could not do basic verb conjugation would have noticed that "Hey, people on TV speak differently than I do... which way's right?" Nope. Standards have been going lower and lower for nearly 50 years. In a bizarre way, it seems as though there is a greater emphasis on making sure the kids feel good about themselves, rather than that they actually know anything.

I suspect that teachers in public schools hands are tied, in a sense. I'm sure they know they are promoting kids to the next grade that should be flunked, but they are directed to pass them up anyway. They cannot MAKE them learn. Only the parents can do that, and they don't.

At least Illinois' state government is doing something besides putting up speed cameras every 2 feet, placing all of their highway patrol cars on the interstate between the two largest cities to try to catch immigrants, and raping the education system of the state....because that's really all Arizona does.

They're not trying to catch immigrants. They're trying to catch illegal immigrants (by the way, a huge cost to the education system).

What are the factors that are straining the budget the most (those highway patrol cars and their missions you mentioned might be a clue). Figure out what's bankrupting the system, act upon it, and then have more money for schools.

Good luck moving to someplace else that you'll like better.

[DFWgal]

Originally Posted by azhiker

Open yourself up to diverse ways of communicating. Never judge.

Now not being able to write correctly is "diversity"?

Originally Posted by azhiker

Of course I'm kidding. Whoever wrote that abomination to you should never have graduated 6th grade, let alone be allowed to attend college.

phew! you scared me!


And... psulions2007, I wish you find the place you're looking for. You don't have idea of how much I understand your feelings right now...

[psulions2007]

Originally Posted by twojulybabies

All I can say is that I am sorry to see you go. You got here shortly after I did and I still LOVE it here regardless of my own problems.

I feel your frustration about spelling and grammar and of course have major concerns for my own small children. However, I am one of those parents who doesn't only rely on school to educate them.

I guess it just depends what exactly you do. Being in a university environment, considering what the state wants to do to the universities, isn't really helping.

Originally Posted by michmoldman

You mean...you would rather live here?? Hundreds upon hundreds of miles of this??



And thousand upon thousands of miles of this???

Gorgeous....absolutely gorgeous.

Originally Posted by Marcy1210

My son is at Pima CC and is in all remedial classes for the sheer fact he can't read, write, do math or science higher than a 6th grade level. He was accepted at UofA with abysmal SAT scores, and we were shocked. We didn't let him go to U of A, rather enrolled him in Pima to get him somewhat up to standard. It'll take him 3 years, but he's willing to do the work. So much of his reading and writing has to do with years of texting, math, who knows? He was educated in a private school in Colorado and still graduated as an illiterate. Even our 35 and 32 year old daughters--married with children--one of whom is the wife of a Lt. Col. can't write or spell to save their lives. They too, were private school educated. In order for schools to qualify under No Child Left Behind, many, many schools fudged their scores by excluding special needs kids, marginal kids and scoring only the top 10% of each classroom. It backfired and most of our kids are the victims of that. Don't blame the kids, blame the schools, teachers and parents. Ultimately, it's their responsibility to make sure the kids are on track.

You are a great parent. Good job on taking up where schools failed.

Originally Posted by vegaspilgrim

I don't know where you live, but it obviously isn't Tucson. Tucson isn't surrounded by sand. It's surrounded by this:



This is sand:



(imperial valley, California)

Ignorance. (then again, what do you expect from the Nittany Kittens?)

There is sand underneath that. Oh, and that is one sad excuse for greenery.

Originally Posted by azhiker

Of course I'm kidding. Whoever wrote that abomination to you should never have graduated 6th grade, let alone be allowed to attend college.

It was a poor jab at relativism, where no behavior (in this case language) can be judged any better than any other. If you don't have the same standards for everybody, the lowest common denominator ends up as the standard. In the effort to mandate that nobody fails, standards are so lowered that kids are moved through the system that should not be. This is especially true if there are any disparate outcomes. Standards just keep getting lowered, and you end up with... someone who submits the type of letter/email that you received. A pathetic state of affairs.

The more money the merrier for education, but at least know that there is not necessarily a direct correlation between per pupil spending and academic performance. Look at D.C. and NYC public schools as exhibits A and B.

A long time ago, when you'd watch TV, people spoke reasonably well, with pretty good grammar. You'd think that those who could not do basic verb conjugation would have noticed that "Hey, people on TV speak differently than I do... which way's right?" Nope. Standards have been going lower and lower for nearly 50 years. In a bizarre way, it seems as though there is a greater emphasis on making sure the kids feel good about themselves, rather than that they actually know anything.

I suspect that teachers in public schools hands are tied, in a sense. I'm sure they know they are promoting kids to the next grade that should be flunked, but they are directed to pass them up anyway. They cannot MAKE them learn. Only the parents can do that, and they don't.



They're not trying to catch immigrants. They're trying to catch illegal immigrants (by the way, a huge cost to the education system).

What are the factors that are straining the budget the most (those highway patrol cars and their missions you mentioned might be a clue). Figure out what's bankrupting the system, act upon it, and then have more money for schools.

Good luck moving to someplace else that you'll like better.

Good post re: education. I couldn't agree more...though I'd note that spending more money on education helps EXTENSIVELY.... while NYC public schools are quite mixed, NYS public schools are some of- if not the best in the nation. Every single person from NY I encountered at PSU had a great education in high school. Every single one.

Re: immigrants, I know that....actually, I support means stopping illegal immigrants (but not legal immigrants). Also, schools wouldn't be affected by it if there was a program like e-verify before parents could enroll kids in the schools.

Also, thanks for the well wishes. I don't know exactly when I'll be leaving...maybe I will be staying until August 2010 (end of my program, hopefully I won't be completely insane by then).

[tucsondesertdweller]

:Part of the problem in my opinon is that Arizona is a low wage state, so of course we spend less per pupil then a lot of states with higher wages and higher taxes.
What sort of grades does the student who wrote this email get? Just curious.
I admit my grammar and spelling is not up to par but I do remember taking some college courses and the Professor would allow minimal mistakes with spelling and grammar. He would lower your grade for a paper if you had too many mistakes.
Perhaps you should consider staying and helping some of these kids

[kdog]

Originally Posted by psulions2007

Since I moved here in August, I have tried...tried to make it work, tried to enjoy it, and tried to get on with what I am here for....but that door is closing fast.

Oh please, your mind was made up before you even got here. Here are excerpts from your first two posts in this forum.

Originally Posted by psulions2007

First off, I hate hot weather. In fact I loathe it...

Originally Posted by psulions2007

The only, and I repeat, only reason I applied there is because of who I would be able to work with and the research I'd be able to perform.

Trust me, I was never excited about the state of Arizona or the city of Tucson, but I was very excited about the Department and the research I'd perform.

Ba-bye, and don't let the door hit ya in the butt on the way out!

[kdog]

Originally Posted by vegaspilgrim

I don't know where you live, but it obviously isn't Tucson. Tucson isn't surrounded by sand. It's surrounded by this:

Gorgeous!!

[psulions2007]

Originally Posted by kdog

Oh please, your mind was made up before you even got here. Here are excerpts from your first two posts in this forum.



Ba-bye, and don't let the door hit ya in the butt on the way out!

Yes...ignore the rest of the first post, as well as the other posts I had made in that thread to try to find suggestions on dealing with the weather, as well as finding other fun things to do.

Also, ignore the thread I made later: http://www.city-data.com/forum/tucso...-week-now.html Describing how I actually came to enjoy Tucson (except for the weather, I never cared for that as evidenced by your carefully manicured "excerpt")

It's just that, since then, a multitude of things have built upon each other to lead me to my recent realizations. This state and me are like oil and water...not compatible.

[azhiker]

Originally Posted by michmoldman

You mean...you would rather live here?? Hundreds upon hundreds of miles of this??

Yeah. That looks like it'd be nice for the two months that it's warm up there and not looking like this...



Man, you can keep that cold weather. Give me this any day: