Don't Believe the Hype : Tucson, Arizona (Phoenix, Green Valley: travel, job, homes)

[june]

Originally Posted by ChrtnsMom

but traffic? Tucson? Please...
I've spent hours in nyc traffic and can tell you Tucson has nothing on new york for car congestion and aggravation.


ROFL........so true. How many days did I spend on the Belt Parkway for 1 1/2 hours to go 22 miles, or 1 hour to go 11 miles into NYC.

I also agree about the traffic, that belt parkway is a nightmare. I go all the time because my family is there. Im from LI and I went to Tucson last April and the trasffic was nothing compared to NY. I actually didnt see any at all. The only thing Ill really miss is the food in NY nothing like it anywherer in the US. Especially Brooklyn.

[june]

Originally Posted by BlueLexa12

Ladies, I too spent about 3 years on the L.I.E.! Pure HE-double- hockeysticks! I recently left NYC, to move here, and really don't have any regrets. So crime is big here, and yes I was surprised to hear it at first, but compared to NY, I'll take my chances. I love the mountains, the culture, and don't mind if there's not too much to do. I don't mind the weather, I'll take hot any day over SNOW! Things may have changed for many of the people born here, and some may be looking to get out, that's understandable. But from where I stood in NYC, Tucson was looking darn good, and I'm glad I made the move!

Which part of Tucson did you settle in, Ive looked at the north side and the west, still not sure yet. I have time though to look more. Coming out there again for a visit in April.How are the stores in comparison to NY? New, clean, prices, the lines?

[june]

Originally Posted by Ponderosa

So why would you believe anything you read here if it contradicts all your previous research? Much of what I have seen about AZ since I started on the forum is inaccurate impressions of people who have not lived here long enough to know their own neighborhoods much less the rest of the city and state they live in.

I am a UofA graduate. The campus is lovely with huge old trees, lawns, and architectural integration. The area is older and not so nice. It was rather shabby when I attended in the 70s, and it has not gotten any better. I was never mugged, assaulted, or otherwise threatened in my time there or on my trips back and I doubt you would be either.

If you want nicer surroundings go to ASU in Tempe. They have the totally artificial "Old Town" Mill Avenue District replete with t-shirt shops, quirky college and sports bars, pizza joints and assorted eateries. The campus is also quite nice but the buildings are a total hodge-podge of architecture that insults the eye.

Been to Tempe, really cool little city,kind of reminds me of babylon village in Long Island, NY. The surrounding area of the UOFA is very old, But has character.

[Tucson_520]

What’s up people. I’m a 19 year old Chicano who was born in Mexico, but was raised in the South Side Tucson. I’m currently in Baghdad right now fighting in this Iraqi war. I was just checking this site out and I came across this page about MY CITY...

Check this out for all the gente (people) that talk bad about Tucson. Tucson is a great city and I am proud to represent Tucson, AZ the big 520 even here in the ARMY... Gangs. Yeah there is gangs in my city just like there is gangs all over the world...Sunnis and Chias, 2 Islamic religions that always kill each other on the daily...The Turkish and the ***** (**** them) in Germany... Crips and bloods all over the U.S, and don’t forget the BROWN PRIDERS, SURENOS and nortenos...the rich and the poor. **** there is even government gangs. Ha ha the republicans and democrats... So if your complaining about the gang problems, then why don't you just disappear from planet earth, because open your eyes its all around you. Its all around us and its never going to end. At least not over night. So why don’t you help us out instead of fearing us.

Also other people are complaining about the school systems like TUSD (Tucson Unified School District) and the Sunny Side District... **** those are great systems and don't you doubt that. Who else would give poor Chicanos, blacks, and even whites male or female a chance to get an education. Not the foothills area, not the little rich sides of town (**** you all). Yeah they are ghetto and the schools could use a little bit of re-building, but that doesn’t stop the teachers from going in everyday and doing their jobs. Now if our schools don't have an above average graduating rate is not cause of the school system. Is because the student just didn't try or wanted to do it bad enough, cause the school, desks, books, and teachers are there, is all up to the students to give them a good use. Comprenden (understand)...

"There is nothing to do in Tucson is so boring" some people say. Then get out move somewhere else. No one is stopping you right? You have the FREEDOM to move where ever you want. **** there is even SOLDIERS out here who could be your brothers, sisters, fathers, mothers or maybe just friends fighting for your FREEDOM. Don’t sound so helpless and help your self, ignorant ****s. Tucson is the best city in the world. IN MY POINT OF VIEW. So for the outsiders who have heard about Tucson and may be interested in living there. If you want to find out info about it, then why don’t you just go pay a visit for a day or two and really get to know it better. Go to the South Side and find out how the people live, how the people act, how the people are, go to the East, West and north side of town also. Get a good view for your selves and you will know whether you want to live there or not. The South, West and part of the East are the "ghetto" sides of town. Allot of "minorities live there which would make us the MAJORITY. Now remember this... On the rich side of town you are valued for what you drive, what you wear, what you buy, if your house looks nice or not, but on the humble side of town you will be valued for who you are and that’s the truth.

So this is for the people who live in Tucson and don't like it. You have 2 options Leave or deal with it. For the gente Brown, black and white who find Tucson as a true home... Much love.

520... To the heart.

[POST-person]

We DO have a problem in Tucson re: crime. The heart of the issue is Barbra La Wall's office. She won't prosecute larceny due to the back-log. What her office says is that they want to concentrate the DA's resources on violent offenders and major crime (stats issues). So what happens is that the plead out are ridiculous.
Why does Tucson have such a larceny issue to begin with? Drugs. The cost of narcotics is fairly low at a national average. The availablity is and always has been extremely high. We have some of the highest grade heroin in the uS and the most abundant supply. We are nextdoor to mexico which has the largest super-labs for production of methamphetamine in the world.
Methods of dealing with the problems that have been discussed?
Decriminalization of drug consumtion; dealing with it as a public health issue instead of an LE issue.
Prosecute ALL larceny instead of plead-out. Currently for instance shoplifting has to be over 1000 dollars to get a trial. 250 or less and it's a ticket (same as speeding) - petty offence. Same for B&E...you may call it burglery but it get a B&E ticket IF no one is home and property is less than 1000.
STOP all private prison programs and stop taking other states inmates to reduce inmate release population hitting the streets.

Doubt me? Check the stats and keep an open mind. I am getting ready to retire, own a home, I live outside Tucson, went to the U of A, etc, etc, etc. I would not live in the city per se' due to the tax issues and what I see as a problem that will get worse. Tucson attracts those who want a more conservitive, slower, lifestyle. However it is a university town so that you have a heck of a lot of people who vote for a socially liberal agenda that may not work in this environment due to the complexities of the challenges facing the population. Would a more lIbertairian approach work? It may if the population had the maturity to not react with a knee-jerk approach to challenges like drug abuse and crime. Locking them up doesn't work. We have had the Harrison narcotics Act on the books since 1914 and the "War on Drugs" is a non-winable situation. Ask most folks who work in any LE agency. They don't "like" drug abuse but it's a fact of life. It does appear to be a problem that has not had varying approachs utilized in coping with it.
It cost about 30k a year to house an inmate. It costs about 4k to treat drug abuse in a live-in program for 180 days including detox.
The overwheling evedence points to drug abuse as a major causality of dysfuntional behaviour in both rural and urban familys. Same goes for crime when all is said and done. IF we continue to focus on BS vote-garnering issues like Kalifornia did we will be living in sprawl like LA and have individual pockets of high crime instead of the 70+ murders a year the city has on a decade mean average. But it's going up with our population, folks. I lived here when there was 25,000 in th city and Pima wide held about 40,000. We had about 5 murders a year back then. Extraploating for [population growth we are no better than we were in the 1960's.....My point is that the crime most folks see is not the murder rate but the property crime.

[gail S]

WOW
I have read alot of your posts. Thanks to all.
How bad is bad. I am here on the east central side of Florida.
I don't think any thing can compare to a Tornado or a Hurricane.
The town I live in has jumped in population from 30,000 in 1993 to close to 90,000 today. Talk about your road problems,some parts of the town are still without paved areas. The local politicans are more concerned with how many strip malls and small and big stores can they fit in without getting roads into shape. I am looking foward to living in the town of Vail Arizona or another in the outskirts of Tucson. Any ideas of where. I can't wait to see a sunset like no other. If there is one thing that will scare me is when I see my first rattle snake and faint from the sight of it. HE HE
Good luck to all where ever you roam.

[POST-person]

Vail is a darn good investment. Great place to buy. - However you should expect wildlife. It's jhust a reality since the sprawl is continuing.
Good school system... for Arizona which has one of the WORST school systems in the Nation.....If you DO have children consider private school if you can afford it. But for what it's worth, Vail's schools are better than most.

[Mudd]

Unfortunately, I agree with most of the negative comments of Tucson. Gangs and crime are prominent here. The south side is getting notorious for it's gang violence and property crimes that typically accompany it. Graffiti isn't horrible, but it's visible along I-10, as it generally runs along bad parts of town anyway. Again, much worse on the south and west sides of town, but progressively getting worse in the rest of town. Property crime has always been high here, stolen vehicles are a big problem (to the point where I don't park at certain malls or places in town), vandalism is always a problem here. Break-ins are common especially. So anything you leave visible in your car that doesn't melt gets stolen. I wouldn't want my wife to walk our child outside at night in most of the city either. It's just not safe. Drugs are common and prominent, especially in schools in the poorer areas of town (a scary fact).

The educational system here is a joke. When 7th graders are learning "See spot run" (not a joke), it's a good indicator that you need to pull your child out of the school system. It was so bad that my wife's parents pulled her out of school and home schooled her. The gap in different schools are huge, especially south side to north side. Tucson is trying to get on with the magnet thing to alleviate that and offer some better opportunities to people living in lower class areas, but it's too little too late. Tucson public education has always been one of the worst in the nation. I attended public schools in Tucson, and I am how I am in spite of the education I received, not because of it. The system needs a complete overhall, and it's not going to get it anytime soon.

The U of A is an OK school with a nice campus, but that's about it. The surrounding area is like any major college I guess, poor housing, high pricing, high crime, lots of riff raff. Nothing special, but not much bad either.

Traffic is a nightmare here, and unnecessarily so. They refuse to build through fares of loops, like Phoenix did to alleviate a lot of it's traffic issues. The money they do spend on roads are all band aids, like bus pull-outs and turn lanes. Helps a little, but does little to solve any issues. The northwest especially is getting hit hard, as it's growing fastest with no improvements being done to the roads. Public transportation is a joke, there's a servicable bus system, but that's it. Tucson's WAY too big, and too hot, to consider biking it everywhere. It's nice for the recreational cyclist, but it's not even a consideration unless you have a death wish. It's not the congestion as much, like it is in other major cities, but more of a lack of options or fore thought. Most of the civil engineering here is a joke.

Real estate pricing is out of hand with all the SoCal investors coming in and buying up all the property. As a result, you can't find a decent home here less than $220k, and the lower cost of living paid here prohibits a lot of people from buying a home.

There is a significant illegal immigrant issue here, and it's compounded by the fact that a large chunk of people here actually support them, including elected officials (there's a political argument there that I'm not going to touch) that affects really everything here. It's getting to the point where unless you speak spanish, you don't really get anywhere here, especially in certain parts of town. I'm all for diversity, but people are not getting service or treated poorly in places due to the fact that they might only speak English. There is a boom from people up from Mexico spending money, so it's not all bad, the economy is helped there, but it also means that most jobs where you deal with the public require you to be bilingual.

I've been here for the better part of 20 years. I've owned homes here, lived all over the city, and worked with the public for a chunk of that. There are people that enjoy living here (especially retirees and golfers), and if you can stick to small areas of town, it can be nice, but most people are finding it harder and harder to make a living here. It's unbearably hot, to the point where for about 6-7 months out of the year, you can't go out of doors from the hours of 10am to 7pm due to the triple digit heat. It's almost cruel to own some animals here due to the heat. Oh, and dining out here is pretty limited.

All in all, there are so many better options out there than Arizona. Do some research if you're considering living here, and come out and see ALL of the city. Read the numbers (crime rates and test scores). Look at the scenery (hope you like rocks and dirt). It's not great, that's for sure. Phoenix is better in a pinch, but I wouldn't live in either place anymore.

[LordBalfor]

I understand your criticisms of Tucson. I've no doubt there are some significant growing pains as the place transforms from a relatively small city to a large one (just passed 1 million as I understand it). There is an important consideration to keep in mind however - EVERYTHING is relative. It all depends on where you are coming from and what you are used to. You're used to the "old" Tucson, when the place was smaller, quieter, home prices were lower, etc etc etc.

To many folks coming from other parts of the country however, many of the gripes you have (while legit for you) are pretty minor to them. For example - "can't find a decent home here less than $220k" - that's nothing here in Seattle, where the average home price is now well over $300,000 (let alone places like LA or SanFran). Heck, I live in a "less than desirable" area of the city (in the jetpath for Sea-Tac airport) and homes in my zip code average $285,000.

Bad traffic? Well, I've no doubt that Tucson has it's share of traffic woes - especially for those areas northeast of the city proper, but in all honesty, while we found Ajo afternoon traffic to be bad, the I-10 traffic slowdowns were little more than a nuisance compared to what we have up here in Seattle.

Heat? Well, yeah, it's hot (it is the Southwest after all), but based on the averages and historical data I'm looking at I think I can certainly handle it. Again, everyone is different in regards to their "comfort levels" in regards to temps, but it looks to me like you folks get 4-5 months of average daily high temps in the 90's and another 2 months or so of highs in the 80's. The high 90's are admittedly warm, but the 80's are pretty much perfect in my opinion (especially with relatively low himidity). I know of course that these are only averages and you folks do of course get some scorching days, but overall I think I can live with it (and actually enjoy it, to tell the truth - I'm tired of the fungus growing on the webs between my toes up here in Seattle). Though I've not yet been to Tucson in the summer, we spent the last few weeks of summer in LV last year and dealt easily with temps in the low 100's.

Not criticizing or demeaning your opinions. You are afterall a long-term resident and know the area far better than I do - and thus a truly invaluable resource. But it's also true that like everyone else, you are a prisoner of your past so your view of Tucson is of course a comparison with the Tucson you used to know - and I've no doubt that the current city comes up poorly in that contest. To many of us from other locations however, our comparisons are with the places that WE know, and in many respects (certainly not all) Tucson comes up looking pretty good overall.

Just something to consider. Again, not pulling down your opinion, just shedding a different light on it.

Ken

[Mudd]

LordBalfor:

I absolutely agree that everything is relative. I also know that the housing prices here pale in comparison to the majority of the country, but keep in mind that wages are that much higher to compensate in other places, such as Seattle. That's a huge issue here. Cost of living is higher than most think, and employers typically pay lower because of it. I love Seattle, and if I could afford it, I'd move tomorrow there. I enjoyed the area and the people are great. The scenery is nice, and I love the water. But the cost of living is compensated in average wage. Not so much here in Tucson, and that creates a huge social barrier between people and classes of people. (see the guy from 520 or whatever post to understand that mindset). I'm not nostalgic for the "old" Tucson, I assure you. I travel quite a bit and see things here like they are, better or worse. That's one of the things that's soured me here so badly, seeing how much everything is better in other areas of the country.

I understand what you say about traffic. I've experienced traffic in some of the worst places, Seattle, LA, SanFran, Houston, etc. Not fun to be sure. While the commute on interstates can be brutal, it's not usually that hard to go 5 miles to a mall to do some shopping. Here, that 5 miles is compounded by horrible traffic, lights, poor road condition in many areas, and poor planning choking traffic.

The weather there has the same effect on people it does here. High 90's here are called "April". From May-September, get used to triple digits, it's not unusual to go weeks in a row at triple digits. You can safely go out of doors during the day from October to March. The rest of the time it's too hot.

I understand all your points, but I think your opinion will change once you spend some time here. And, like I said, stick to the nicer areas and you'll probably enjoy it here. I just found all of Tucson's faults inescapable, even living in the nicer parts of town.