10 Reasons Not To Move To Tucson (city hall, scorpion, gated)

[twixcookie]

Ken,
Yes, that's pretty much true. All lands are essentially conquered lands, so whoever defends and claims the lands now has them. Even if you go back in time, there were the Paleo-Indians here, before the tribes we know about.
As the populations have expanded on every continent, lands have been taken over.
I don't see it about being smug or not and I don't understand those who think we should hand back our lands to someone else. Where would the cycle stop?

[LordBalfor]

Twixcookie -

Essentially I'm saying that we shouldn't necessarily feel morally superior to other people. While we generally like to think of ourselves as a moral people, the fact is we've done our share of dishonorable things as well - beginning with stealing most of this country. I'm not saying we are any worse than the folks we stole it from (since over time they no doubt pushed earlier native peoples out) - just that we are no better either.

All mankind is guilty of such theft - ourselves included. Just because everyone has done it, doesn't make it right.

Ken

[LordBalfor]

PS - and I do agree with you, giving it back is not practical - for the very reason you mentioned ("where would it stop?"). We just need to try and not do these things in the future - and condemn those others that continue to do so.

Ken

[Desert Bimmer]

Ken,

I admire a perspective from an educated and rational person like yourself. I too feel the way you do about it all. And I couldn't have said it any better!

PS: I often wonder to myself if the REAL American history was taught in schools, perhaps then the ignorance would subside...at least we'd hope! But the watered-down American history version taught in American schools seems to be working for "The Man". VIVA America!

Cheers mate!
Ruben

[twixcookie]

Originally Posted by LordBalfor

Twixcookie -

Essentially I'm saying that we shouldn't necessarily feel morally superior to other people. While we generally like to think of ourselves as a moral people, the fact is we've done our share of dishonorable things as well - beginning with stealing most of this country. I'm not saying we are any worse than the folks we stole it from (since over time they no doubt pushed earlier native peoples out) - just that we are no better either.

All mankind is guilty of such theft - ourselves included. Just because everyone has done it, doesn't make it right.

Ken

When did I mention feeling morally superior?If you want to discuss morals, the fights for land, water, supremacy, and power is complete world history, not just the US.

[LordBalfor]

Indeed, we're no worse - but not necessarily better either.

Ken

[twixcookie]

We are better in some ways...the USA helps out many many nations. When Hurricane Katrina struck, you didn't see too many nations helping us out.

I think Americans are pretty generous. Except for the present day situation, we helped many nations, like Britain and France, during WW2...many gave their lives to protect liberties.

[LordBalfor]

No disagreement there.

As with Britain, WWII was America's finest hour.

Ken

[Desert Bimmer]

Originally Posted by twixcookie

We are better in some ways...the USA helps out many many nations. When Hurricane Katrina struck, you didn't see too many nations helping us out.

I think Americans are pretty generous. Except for the present day situation, we helped many nations, like Britain and France, during WW2...many gave their lives to protect liberties.

True twixcookie, many nations did not help us out during the Katrina disaster but neither did our government. If it wasn't for the real Americans, the people, who knows how that would have turned out...

Sure we help a lot of other nations present day...but when do we stop or at least lessen the burden and turn to our own people and help them out? We have tons of problems in our own backyard with nothing but empty promises every single election...I'm sure it won't be any different in '08

And if you think we fight wars to protect our liberties then I have some beachfront property to sell you just outside of Green Valley. And if you think we have liberties and freedoms...well take another look right before you own eyes...there are dissapearing without you even realizing it or maybe its perhaps that no one wants to believe it.

The question is not whether Americans have lost all their liberties, but whether the average American is becoming less free with each passing year, with each session of Congress, with each new shelf row of Federal Register dictates. American liberty can still be rescued from the encroachments of government. The first step to saving our liberty is to realize how much we have already lost, how we lost it, and how we will continue to lose unless fundamental political changes occur.

[bigbiceps]

Below is a list of countries who offered aid. Some of these efforts were not formally accepted by the U.S. government (see "Actual Funds Used" below).

International response to Hurricane Katrina - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia