10 Reasons Not To Move To Tucson (Pima: loan, theater, public schools)

[a8472c]

Originally Posted by THE SKEPTIC

I agree (mostly)

Life here is good and is perfect for retirement.

We left San Juan Capistrano CA 3 years ago after 35 years in the OC and never looked back.

The traffic and congestion there get to you after a while.

Here (Tucson) we can go to any restaurant we want and never worry about being late for your reservation.

What? It takes over 30 minutes to go 12 miles in Tucson...You stop 3-4 times every mile because of some un-timed light or crosswalk 100 ft away from the intersection. Most everyone disregards the "slower traffic keep right signs" all over the city. Frequently, drivers will break for over 1/8th of a mile just riding the brake the whole way...and I get cut off at least once a month. Seriously, a city this size should not have an average speed of less than 20mph, but it does...

[sickofIL]

What? It takes over 30 minutes to go 12 miles in Tucson...You stop 3-4 times every mile because of some un-timed light or crosswalk 100 ft away from the intersection. Most everyone disregards the "slower traffic keep right signs" all over the city. Frequently, drivers will break for over 1/8th of a mile just riding the brake the whole way...and I get cut off at least once a month. Seriously, a city this size should not have an average speed of less than 20mph, but it does...

I am fron the western Chicago suburbs and I found driving in Tucson a pleasure! I didn't miss all the people that absolutely need to be in front of you all the time and the ones that don't think red lights pertain to them and the ones that do right turn on red without even slowing down. It was nice not feeling like I was going to be run down by someone driving 90 mph in a 55.

[TulipO]

I just left Tucson after living there for 5 years, and I couldn't be happier.

Tucson. Seems ugly at first, and it makes you wonder where the hell the actual city is, but after a while it starts to grow on you. I loved Tucson, for about a year. Then things kind of take a turn.

While in Tucson...

I worked in one of its mose popular restaurants full time and barely made enough to make ends meet.
I got pink eye...twice. I am a very clean person and was rather alarmed to get pink eye as an adult. I was more alarmed at the $330 hospital visit so that I could get a prescription in order to return to work. I basically paid $330 for some doctor's autograph.
I was held up at gun point and robbed in the parking lot of a local tavern. I was with a friend. One of the culprits attempted to use her ATM card to clean out her account. She only had 7 bucks in it. But the point is that there are cameras on those things. When she brought this up to the police, they told her it was her responsibility to ask for those tapes from the bank. Apparently Tucson wants civilians to do their own detective work. I guess thats why there are so few strict gun laws...
I was stalked by a meth head. He showed up at my job and then at my home twice with the same lame ass story and freaky eyes at like 3 AM.
There were several gang shootings a block away from my house.
There was a meth-lab busted up by a SWAT team three houses down from me. I moved in to what seemed like a nice neighborhood in Central Tucson. Right near the University. The police helicopter flew through my alley every night. I found out later that aside from Oro Valley, this is the norm in Tucson.
I saw more deadly traffic accidents in Tucson in 5 years than I did in a lifetime of living in New York.
In the summer time, EVERYONE in this city is broke. Summer lasts from April until October. You do the math.
In Tucson, the city tax for your vehicle registration is based on the value of your car. In other words brand new = $300 anually. Basically, if you're rich it doesn't hurt, if you're poor you don't have a new car. But the rest of us are totally screwed. That's a lot of fun, coming up with an extra $300 in July, when you're already making car payments. There is virtually no "middle class" in Tucson because of stuff like this. Also, there is no "grace period" for registration. If your car goes 1 day over and you get stopped, they pull your plates and slap an $800 fine on you.
There are literally millions of tax dollars being funneled in to the Rio Nuevo project to revitalize the downtown area-and nothing at all has been done. This has been going on for years. There is City corruption galore.
Old people+college kids+crappy roads=traffic from hell. The only nice time to drive in Tucson is on Sunday, when apparently everyone else vaporizes for the day.
At least 1 in 4 people have a DUI.
The public transportation in this town SUCKS. Sun Tran is the bus. Runs when it feels like it, virtually non-existent on weekends, takes 2 hours to get to a place that takes 10 minutes to drive to. Cab companies are plentiful, but completely unreliable. They might show up in 5 minutes, or not at all.
In my life I think I have had a flat tire on my car 7 times. 6 happened in Tucson due to potholes and road debris.
There is very little to do here. I mean, if you like to hike all the time, or get drunk all the time, you're in luck. This place has some of the cheapest booze around, but that's where the perks end. Rent is on par with the rest of the country, as is fuel and food, but the wages are still ridiculously low. Also, Tucson can feel alot like inland exile. I mean, its surrounded by absolutely nothing. The nearest cities are Phoenix (2 hrs) and Nogales (1.5 hrs). Phoenix resembles the set of a disney movie, peppered with shuffling zombies. I mean literally everything up there looks like laquered plastic and there are so many meth-heads that it looks like a night-of the living dead type movie set-with happy palm trees. Nogales has a little old west charm to it, but then you've got the creepy ass border patrol hanging around everywhere.
Goat head thorns. They look like tiny little devils, or goat skulls and they stick in to your feet all the time. There are actually more than a few noisome plants in Tucson that can hurt like hell. I do have to say that after 5 years there, I never once saw a rattlesnake, a scorpion, a tarantula or a gila monster. I did see quite a few black widow spiders though.
Highest auto theft in the country.
Tourist based economy-that has a tourist season of 3 months. There's a little pick up when the UofA comes back in Sept, and then the holidays are busy-but after March kiss you paycheck goodbye.
There is hardly any basic inferstructure in Tucson. Sidewalks are a novelty in most neighborhoods, streetlights don't exist in any useful way (due to the placement of Kitt Peak Observatory-and as for that its a rip off.) and one of the hardest things to find in Tucson is a public mailbox. Downtown is a little better off because a lot of these things were installed in the 30s as part of the WPA. In fact, I love down town Tucson. I just wish the politicians and contractors in the city weren't always trying to shut it down. Its one of the safest and most fun places in the whole city.

Okay, there are a lot of other reasons NOT to move to Tucson. Here are a couple good things about it.

The desert smells really pretty.
Great Mexican food.
Cheap booze.
Monsoon season.

[michael krotchie]

I've replied below in bold!

Originally Posted by TulipO

I just left Tucson after living there for 5 years, and I couldn't be happier.

Tucson. Seems ugly at first, and it makes you wonder where the hell the actual city is, but after a while it starts to grow on you. I loved Tucson, for about a year. Then things kind of take a turn.

While in Tucson...

I worked in one of its mose popular restaurants full time and barely made enough to make ends meet.

Pima Community College is one of the largest multi-campus community colleges in the nation and offers a multitude of courses (demonstrated by ~70,000 students) for people to advance themselves.

Originally Posted by TulipO

I got pink eye...twice. I am a very clean person and was rather alarmed to get pink eye as an adult. I was more alarmed at the $330 hospital visit so that I could get a prescription in order to return to work. I basically paid $330 for some doctor's autograph.

Aside from the fact that pink eye is highly contagious (at least the viral form), this could have happened anywhere. Tucson does get dusty sometimes though... but that's expected in the desert.

Originally Posted by TulipO

I was held up at gun point and robbed in the parking lot of a local tavern. I was with a friend. One of the culprits attempted to use her ATM card to clean out her account. She only had 7 bucks in it. But the point is that there are cameras on those things. When she brought this up to the police, they told her it was her responsibility to ask for those tapes from the bank. Apparently Tucson wants civilians to do their own detective work. I guess thats why there are so few strict gun laws...

Sorry to hear about the robbery, not sure what you mean about gun laws.

Originally Posted by TulipO

I was stalked by a meth head. He showed up at my job and then at my home twice with the same lame ass story and freaky eyes at like 3 AM.

There were several gang shootings a block away from my house.
There was a meth-lab busted up by a SWAT team three houses down from me. I moved in to what seemed like a nice neighborhood in Central Tucson. Right near the University. The police helicopter flew through my alley every night. I found out later that aside from Oro Valley, this is the norm in Tucson.

It's most definitely not the "norm in Tucson," but there are some areas that are sketchier than others.

Originally Posted by TulipO

I saw more deadly traffic accidents in Tucson in 5 years than I did in a lifetime of living in New York.
In the summer time, EVERYONE in this city is broke. Summer lasts from April until October. You do the math.

Considering most students leave for the summer, it would probably feel that way to the someone working in the restaurant industry. Not sure about "broke" though..

Originally Posted by TulipO

In Tucson, the city tax for your vehicle registration is based on the value of your car. In other words brand new = $300 anually. Basically, if you're rich it doesn't hurt, if you're poor you don't have a new car. But the rest of us are totally screwed. That's a lot of fun, coming up with an extra $300 in July, when you're already making car payments. There is virtually no "middle class" in Tucson because of stuff like this. Also, there is no "grace period" for registration. If your car goes 1 day over and you get stopped, they pull your plates and slap an $800 fine on you.

This is public information so I don't see why people wouldn't plan ahead for expenses like this. Why would there be a grace period anyway?

Originally Posted by TulipO

There are literally millions of tax dollars being funneled in to the Rio Nuevo project to revitalize the downtown area-and nothing at all has been done. This has been going on for years. There is City corruption galore.

I'll give you this one... Rio Nuevo was/is a joke and city officials need to get their stuff together.

Originally Posted by TulipO

Old people+college kids+crappy roads=traffic from hell. The only nice time to drive in Tucson is on Sunday, when apparently everyone else vaporizes for the day.
At least 1 in 4 people have a DUI.

Not true.

Originally Posted by TulipO

The public transportation in this town SUCKS. Sun Tran is the bus. Runs when it feels like it, virtually non-existent on weekends, takes 2 hours to get to a place that takes 10 minutes to drive to. Cab companies are plentiful, but completely unreliable. They might show up in 5 minutes, or not at all.

This is very true, public transportation in Tucson is waaaaaaay behind, and cabs are hit or miss a lot of the time.

Originally Posted by TulipO

In my life I think I have had a flat tire on my car 7 times. 6 happened in Tucson due to potholes and road debris.

I keep an eye out for potholes and road debris and drive around them

Originally Posted by TulipO

There is very little to do here. I mean, if you like to hike all the time, or get drunk all the time, you're in luck. This place has some of the cheapest booze around, but that's where the perks end. Rent is on par with the rest of the country, as is fuel and food, but the wages are still ridiculously low.

Tucson has the lowest rent in the West. Wages could be better.

Originally Posted by TulipO

Also, Tucson can feel alot like inland exile. I mean, its surrounded by absolutely nothing. The nearest cities are Phoenix (2 hrs) and Nogales (1.5 hrs). Phoenix resembles the set of a disney movie, peppered with shuffling zombies. I mean literally everything up there looks like laquered plastic and there are so many meth-heads that it looks like a night-of the living dead type movie set-with happy palm trees. Nogales has a little old west charm to it, but then you've got the creepy ass border patrol hanging around everywhere.

Welcome to the desert!

Originally Posted by TulipO

Goat head thorns. They look like tiny little devils, or goat skulls and they stick in to your feet all the time. There are actually more than a few noisome plants in Tucson that can hurt like hell. I do have to say that after 5 years there, I never once saw a rattlesnake, a scorpion, a tarantula or a gila monster. I did see quite a few black widow spiders though.

Highest auto theft in the country.

Tenth highest!

Originally Posted by TulipO

Tourist based economy-that has a tourist season of 3 months. There's a little pick up when the UofA comes back in Sept, and then the holidays are busy-but after March kiss you paycheck goodbye.

Don't forget about Davis-Monthan AFB, Raytheon Missile Systems, TUSD, and all of these other employers.

Originally Posted by TulipO

There is hardly any basic inferstructure in Tucson. Sidewalks are a novelty in most neighborhoods, streetlights don't exist in any useful way (due to the placement of Kitt Peak Observatory-and as for that its a rip off.)

In most older neighborhoods sidewalks are wanting, but all newer ones are fine. The light pollution control issue is a big reason Tucson is an Astronomer's dream, even if funding hasn't been as consistent in recent years.

Originally Posted by TulipO

and one of the hardest things to find in Tucson is a public mailbox. Downtown is a little better off because a lot of these things were installed in the 30s as part of the WPA. In fact, I love down town Tucson. I just wish the politicians and contractors in the city weren't always trying to shut it down. Its one of the safest and most fun places in the whole city.

Okay, there are a lot of other reasons NOT to move to Tucson. Here are a couple good things about it.

The desert smells really pretty.
Great Mexican food.
Cheap booze.
Monsoon season.

[sierraAZ]

Originally Posted by michael krotchie

The light pollution control issue is a big reason Tucson is an Astronomer's dream

And a nightmare for those of us lacking suicidal or homicidal thoughts while driving at night or wanting to take this strange thing called "walk" in the neighborhood!

[odinloki1]

Originally Posted by TulipO

I just left Tucson after living there for 5 years, and I couldn't be happier.

Tucson. Seems ugly at first, and it makes you wonder where the hell the actual city is, but after a while it starts to grow on you. I loved Tucson, for about a year. Then things kind of take a turn.

While in Tucson...

I worked in one of its mose popular restaurants full time and barely made enough to make ends meet.
I got pink eye...twice. I am a very clean person and was rather alarmed to get pink eye as an adult. I was more alarmed at the $330 hospital visit so that I could get a prescription in order to return to work. I basically paid $330 for some doctor's autograph.
I was held up at gun point and robbed in the parking lot of a local tavern. I was with a friend. One of the culprits attempted to use her ATM card to clean out her account. She only had 7 bucks in it. But the point is that there are cameras on those things. When she brought this up to the police, they told her it was her responsibility to ask for those tapes from the bank. Apparently Tucson wants civilians to do their own detective work. I guess thats why there are so few strict gun laws...
I was stalked by a meth head. He showed up at my job and then at my home twice with the same lame ass story and freaky eyes at like 3 AM.
There were several gang shootings a block away from my house.
There was a meth-lab busted up by a SWAT team three houses down from me. I moved in to what seemed like a nice neighborhood in Central Tucson. Right near the University. The police helicopter flew through my alley every night. I found out later that aside from Oro Valley, this is the norm in Tucson.
I saw more deadly traffic accidents in Tucson in 5 years than I did in a lifetime of living in New York.
In the summer time, EVERYONE in this city is broke. Summer lasts from April until October. You do the math.
In Tucson, the city tax for your vehicle registration is based on the value of your car. In other words brand new = $300 anually. Basically, if you're rich it doesn't hurt, if you're poor you don't have a new car. But the rest of us are totally screwed. That's a lot of fun, coming up with an extra $300 in July, when you're already making car payments. There is virtually no "middle class" in Tucson because of stuff like this. Also, there is no "grace period" for registration. If your car goes 1 day over and you get stopped, they pull your plates and slap an $800 fine on you.
There are literally millions of tax dollars being funneled in to the Rio Nuevo project to revitalize the downtown area-and nothing at all has been done. This has been going on for years. There is City corruption galore.
Old people+college kids+crappy roads=traffic from hell. The only nice time to drive in Tucson is on Sunday, when apparently everyone else vaporizes for the day.
At least 1 in 4 people have a DUI.
The public transportation in this town SUCKS. Sun Tran is the bus. Runs when it feels like it, virtually non-existent on weekends, takes 2 hours to get to a place that takes 10 minutes to drive to. Cab companies are plentiful, but completely unreliable. They might show up in 5 minutes, or not at all.
In my life I think I have had a flat tire on my car 7 times. 6 happened in Tucson due to potholes and road debris.
There is very little to do here. I mean, if you like to hike all the time, or get drunk all the time, you're in luck. This place has some of the cheapest booze around, but that's where the perks end. Rent is on par with the rest of the country, as is fuel and food, but the wages are still ridiculously low. Also, Tucson can feel alot like inland exile. I mean, its surrounded by absolutely nothing. The nearest cities are Phoenix (2 hrs) and Nogales (1.5 hrs). Phoenix resembles the set of a disney movie, peppered with shuffling zombies. I mean literally everything up there looks like laquered plastic and there are so many meth-heads that it looks like a night-of the living dead type movie set-with happy palm trees. Nogales has a little old west charm to it, but then you've got the creepy ass border patrol hanging around everywhere.
Goat head thorns. They look like tiny little devils, or goat skulls and they stick in to your feet all the time. There are actually more than a few noisome plants in Tucson that can hurt like hell. I do have to say that after 5 years there, I never once saw a rattlesnake, a scorpion, a tarantula or a gila monster. I did see quite a few black widow spiders though.
Highest auto theft in the country.
Tourist based economy-that has a tourist season of 3 months. There's a little pick up when the UofA comes back in Sept, and then the holidays are busy-but after March kiss you paycheck goodbye.
There is hardly any basic inferstructure in Tucson. Sidewalks are a novelty in most neighborhoods, streetlights don't exist in any useful way (due to the placement of Kitt Peak Observatory-and as for that its a rip off.) and one of the hardest things to find in Tucson is a public mailbox. Downtown is a little better off because a lot of these things were installed in the 30s as part of the WPA. In fact, I love down town Tucson. I just wish the politicians and contractors in the city weren't always trying to shut it down. Its one of the safest and most fun places in the whole city.

Okay, there are a lot of other reasons NOT to move to Tucson. Here are a couple good things about it.

The desert smells really pretty.
Great Mexican food.
Cheap booze.
Monsoon season.

I agree with all of this except the desert has no smell other than dust and car exhaust. Compared with a lush green forest I don't get how you think its pretty smelling. That and downtown Tucson is poor to mediocre at best and thats including the 4 blocks of fourth street thats overcrowded, overpriced and not worth the 45 minutes of poorly timed lights to get there.

[Santa Fe Journal]

Tucson does suffer from urban sprawl, but on the other hand: residents are very friendly, there's plenty of baseball (Hi Corbett Field and Tucson Electric Park), it's 45 minutes from Mexico, the U of A is a great area to walk, there are plenty of good restaurants and bookstores.

The HEAT is rough...and not just July and August, more like March through September. Agree there's plenty to do. Sonoran Desert Museum: wow.

How can you not love spring training? (Does anyone out there collect baseball cards? If so, please visit Dinged Corners so we can talk.)

There is surprisingly heavy traffic around Tucson, which we weren't expecting. But the town is laid out logically and that makes it pretty easy to find your way around. Thus. Make sure your car A/C is working well; always bring buckets of sunscreen and a good hat and lightweight long-sleeve shirt; and leave a few minutes earlier for everything than you ever think you'll have to.

Really, we're picky and neurotic and still think it's a very nice town.

DISCLAIMER: these opinions are based on one single pleasant visit. But we're going back.

[TulipO]

Pima Community College is one of the largest multi-campus community colleges in the nation and offers a multitude of courses (demonstrated by ~70,000 students) for people to advance themselves

If that was a jab because I work in the restaurant business, I will have you know that I hold a B.A in history and an M.F.A. BA is from back east, but the M.F.A is from the U of A. I'm tired of people being insulting about the restaurant business. Did it ever occur to you that maybe some people LIKE it? Furthermore, why did you not suggest the U of A? Are you automatically assuming that one who works in the restaurant industry could not possibly be granted admission in to a four year program?

Aside from the fact that pink eye is highly contagious (at least the viral form), this could have happened anywhere. Tucson does get dusty sometimes though... but that's expected in the desert

.

Yeah well, I've lived a lot of places, and I've never seen it happen to adults anywhere else. I wasn't the only one. At least a few times a year an adult with no children complained of conjunctivitis.

Sorry to hear about the robbery, not sure what you mean about gun laws.

Well, its pretty much legal to bring your gun anywhere, and in 2004 there was actually a debate on the table about whether or not guns would be allowed in bars. GREAT IDEA! Lets mix guns and booze. To the state of Arizona's credit this was ruled against.

It's most definitely not the "norm in Tucson," but there are some areas that are sketchier than others

.

Yeah, like all of Ft Lowell, until you get down to Swan, and then you better head north. Almost the entirety of Grant road. Any part of Speedway that isn't central or past the freeway, Alvernon until Reid Park. Dodge. 1st and pretty much anywhere. Campbell is alright except between Ft Lowell and Speedway. I lived across from Salpointe for a while, and on several occasions people came and rang our doorbell looking for spare change, my friends house was broken in to on the same street, there was a known coke dealer living two houses down from the school, and a peeping tom terrorizing college girls in the neighborhood. The only place I felt safe walking around at night alone was downtown. The only "safe" places IMO, are downtown, the northside (River and up) the East side (Tanque Verde and further) and the West side ( Silverbell/Greasewood area) Sam Hughes is okay I guess-expensive anyway, but meth heads still wander in and out at will. Lets face it though, those affordable rents we were talking about mainly exist in Central Tucson.

Considering most students leave for the summer, it would probably feel that way to the someone working in the restaurant industry. Not sure about "broke" though..

My husband worked for the city of Tucson, and one of the union locals. No work in summer time. Restaurants are a large industry in Tucson. If the servers aren't making any money than neither are the owners. Store owners report losses. Tourism is Tucsons main industry and it plummets in summer time.

This is public information so I don't see why people wouldn't plan ahead for expenses like this. Why would there be a grace period anyway?

Planning ahead can only get you so far if you don't have the money. And the fact that its public information doesn't make it reasonable. What I am saying is that AZ looks cheap on paper, but in reality there are all sorts of things that end up costing a lot that don't get factored in when you're day dreaming about 70 degrees on Thanksgiving Day. Furthermore, the wages are really crappy. I live in a place now where I am paying the EXACT same amount in rent as I did in Tucson for a place that is 10X nicer AND I can easily afford it because I get paid very well.

Not true.

Which part? I imagine you are talking about the DUI's. Very true. That's not an exact statistic, but having a DUI on one's record was pretty standard for many of the people I met there. At my job alone there were 10 people who had one out of a total staff of maybe 30. That is the main objective of TPD-busting drunk drivers, and there are pretty stringent policies in effect. I felt like a minority for not having one. I mean I guess its a good thing that they crack down so hard on it, but its pretty alarming how many people drink and drive out there. I guess "personal responsibility" isn't working out too well here. Maybe its time to put some money in to the public transit...

I keep an eye out for potholes and road debris and drive around them

They are hard to see on Aviation Highway at night! Or any of the streets for that matter. I think they should fix the damned roads!

Don't forget about Davis-Monthan AFB, Raytheon Missile Systems, TUSD, and all of these other employers.

I'm definitely not military-nor do I want to be. That goes double for helping to build war machines at Raytheon, and we've already discussed TUSD and how teachers don't make any money. So OK. IF you are military, and IF you are not morally opposed to building missiles or helping with the effort to build them, and IF you have another income other than a TUSD teachers salary-Tucson might be the place for you.

I agree with all of this except the desert has no smell other than dust and car exhaust. Compared with a lush green forest I don't get how you think its pretty smelling. That and downtown Tucson is poor to mediocre at best and thats including the 4 blocks of fourth street thats overcrowded, overpriced and not worth the 45 minutes of poorly timed lights to get there

Well, the desert sage, and mesquite trees and citrus blossoms smell awesome. Its different, but I love the smell of the desert. Especially after a monsoon. I don't have a problem with the climate really, its the government that creates most of the problems for Tucson. The "right to work" state thing doesn't help anyone out either. As far as down town goes-it is lacking compared with most cities, but its all we had, and dammit, I loved it for that. 4th ave had its charms too, but going over there on a Friday night was a nightmare. Too many frat clowns.

[michael krotchie]

Originally Posted by TulipO

If that was a jab because I work in the restaurant business, I will have you know that I hold a B.A in history and an M.F.A. BA is from back east, but the M.F.A is from the U of A. I'm tired of people being insulting about the restaurant business. Did it ever occur to you that maybe some people LIKE it? Furthermore, why did you not suggest the U of A? Are you automatically assuming that one who works in the restaurant industry could not possibly be granted admission in to a four year program?

Wow must have hit a soft spot. You're right, I did assume that someone working in the restaurant industry wouldn't have a BA and MFA. If you have the opportunity to make more money doing something else, but choose to work in the restaurant industry and gripe about pay, I really don't have much sympathy for you.

Originally Posted by TulipO

Well, its pretty much legal to bring your gun anywhere, and in 2004 there was actually a debate on the table about whether or not guns would be allowed in bars. GREAT IDEA! Lets mix guns and booze. To the state of Arizona's credit this was ruled against.

Guns and booze definitely a bad idea. Liberal gun laws, to each his own.

Originally Posted by TulipO

My husband worked for the city of Tucson, and one of the union locals. No work in summer time. Restaurants are a large industry in Tucson. If the servers aren't making any money than neither are the owners. Store owners report losses. Tourism is Tucsons main industry and it plummets in summer time.

Tourism is one of Tucson's industries, but if you take a look at any public info site you see the other major employers:

Much of Tucson's economic development has been centered around the development of the University of Arizona, which is currently the second largest employer in the city. Davis-Monthan Air Force Base, located on the southeastern edge of the city, also provides many jobs for Tucson residents. Its presence, as well as the presence of a US Army Intelligence Center (Fort Huachuca, the largest employer in the region in nearby Sierra Vista), has led to the development of a significant number of high-tech industries, including government contractors, in the area. Today, there are more than 1,200 businesses employing over 50,000 people in the high-tech industries of Southern Arizona.

The City of Tucson, Pima County, the State of Arizona and the private sector have all made commitments to create a growing, healthy economy with high-tech industries as its foundation. Advanced technology companies like Raytheon Missile Systems, Texas Instruments, IBM, Intuit Inc., Universal Avionics, Misys Healthcare Systems, Sanofi-Aventis, Ventana Medical Systems, Inc., and Bombardier all have a significant presence in Tucson. Roughly 150 Tucson companies are in the optics industry, earning Tucson the nickname "Optics Valley".[3]

Tourism is another major industry in Tucson, which has many resorts, hotels, and attractions. A significant economic force is middle-class and upper-class Sonorans, who travel from Mexico to Tucson to purchase goods that are not readily available in their country. In addition to vacationers, a significant number of winter residents, or "snowbirds", are attracted by Tucson's mild winters and contribute to the local economy. Snowbirds often purchase second homes in Tucson and nearby areas, contributing significantly to the property tax base. Other snowbirds and "perpetual travelers" can be seen in large numbers arriving in autumn in large RVs towing small cars.

Originally Posted by TulipO

Which part? I imagine you are talking about the DUI's. Very true. That's not an exact statistic, but having a DUI on one's record was pretty standard for many of the people I met there. At my job alone there were 10 people who had one out of a total staff of maybe 30. That is the main objective of TPD-busting drunk drivers, and there are pretty stringent policies in effect. I felt like a minority for not having one. I mean I guess its a good thing that they crack down so hard on it, but its pretty alarming how many people drink and drive out there. I guess "personal responsibility" isn't working out too well here. Maybe its time to put some money in to the public transit...

It may have been the "norm" with the people at your job, but as you said, its not an exact statistic, especially if you don't provide references. I could flip it the other way and say 1 in 200 people where I work have DUIs, so that must be the norm.

Originally Posted by TulipO

I'm definitely not military-nor do I want to be. That goes double for helping to build war machines at Raytheon, and we've already discussed TUSD and how teachers don't make any money. So OK. IF you are military, and IF you are not morally opposed to building missiles or helping with the effort to build them, and IF you have another income other than a TUSD teachers salary-Tucson might be the place for you.

and if you don't work at any of the other twenty places mentioned on the list..


But I am glad you found somewhere else where you are happier, one of the great freedoms we have is to move where we like!

[LordBalfor]

TulipO -

I think the suggestion to attend PCC was a good one based on what you had posted - after all, you'd mentioned you didn't make much money and I would assume that PCC is much more reasonably priced than the U of A. As one who was still working at my "day job" of managing a car wash long after earning my own BA in History (but before I got my BS in Computing) I know what it's like to work in an industry who's workers are generally held in low esteem, but the fact is, few folks in those industries have an advanced education (especially those who complain of low pay) so any assumptions in that regard are pretty normal.

Ken