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Old 06-14-2012, 02:21 PM
 
Location: Wind comes sweeping down the...
1,586 posts, read 6,758,092 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swake View Post
The innermost few square miles of Oklahoma City might be on the rebound, but that's hardly true for vast the majority of that city's older areas.
So all the new stuff happening in the "older" parts of OKC and everything that I see everyday is not there? I will take into account that your a Tulsa homer, but please explain in detail bc I must be blind!

Tulsa (city) QuickFacts from the US Census Bureau

Oklahoma City (city) QuickFacts from the US Census Bureau

Last edited by happytown; 06-14-2012 at 02:33 PM..
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Old 06-14-2012, 02:38 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ou_norman View Post
But the fact is much of OKC's core- particularly the 20+ square miles in 44/235/40 loop- is healthy, growing, and vibrant. The major difference between these two cores is that Tulsa has been so much more segregated that there is little socioeconomic variation within the neighborhoods like you find in OKC. This gives the appearance that south Tulsa is doing better, when really it has just done a better job isolating itself from and forgetting the surrounding city's problems.

This is actually great news for Tulsa because there are far fewer obstacles (slumlords, bad blocks, absentee owners, etc) to doing infill and redevelopment work in south Tulsa neighborhoods than there are in the popular inner northwest neighborhoods of OKC. It also gives Tulsa great demographics for national retailers because its rich white people are so concentrated.

Check out this map by the NY Times based on 2010 Census. Zoom in to the metro areas and you can see data at the Census tract level. Mapping the 2010 U.S. Census - NYTimes.com

Look at the population change map and vacant housing change map. Both confirm that OKC has higher rates of growth than Tulsa in both the central areas and the periphery.
Midtown is not really “growing”, there’s there is very little infill in midtown Tulsa due to lack of places to build so there’s little potential to grow. Midtown has few children, the population is aging and the new people that move in tend to be younger and single. So you do see a slight population decline but that does not mean the area is not healthy or in demand. Home values in midtown remain high. There have been quite a few tear downs with massive McMansions going up in the place of older homes, sometimes in place of multiple older homes. Sometimes you will see large lots be subdivided into smaller lots for development but most often those are done for very expensive condos and few kids live in condos. All of this leads to an area that is increasing in wealth and desirability but a slightly declining population.

It seems to be pretty common in Tulsa that when you have kids you move outward but then people seem to come back as empty nesters. I did that in fact. When my daughter was born I lived in the Brookside area near Riverparks. Out of say 15-20 house on my block two had kids. When she got close to school age and my wife was pregnant with our son we moved to Jenks. Our block in Jenks has kids in nearly every house. Once the kids are done with school we plan to move back into midtown.

The parts of Tulsa that are suffering are actually pretty minor. Almost half the population of Tulsa lives south of 61st and outside of a small area near riverside that entire half of the city varies from pretty nice to really, really nice. Midtown is a huge area of the city as well and is not lilly white. Most of Tulsa is nice.
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Old 06-14-2012, 07:01 PM
 
Location: Bentonville, AR
1,134 posts, read 3,190,547 times
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If the things happening in OKC were happening in Tulsa, it would have more of an impact, imo. Tulsa is a prettier city where people are more naturally drawn. However you cant ignore the fact that OKC is doing a lot right. I don't really think Tulsa is comparable with Detroit, but it's development is much slower than OKC's.
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Old 06-14-2012, 07:18 PM
 
1,812 posts, read 2,224,099 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by knrstz View Post
If the things happening in OKC were happening in Tulsa, it would have more of an impact, imo. Tulsa is a prettier city where people are more naturally drawn. However you cant ignore the fact that OKC is doing a lot right. I don't really think Tulsa is comparable with Detroit, but it's development is much slower than OKC's.
Why don't you refer back to the $386 million in development noted in this article going on downtown right now. The whole northside of downtown is a big construction site. The east side of downtown is about to be.

http://www.tulsaworld.com/business/a...1_CUTLIN166719

I will also tell you that list far from complete, there are many other projects they missed. It doesn't include the new park by Land Legacy, the three downtown Churches that are massively expanding, All Souls Church that's moving back downtown. It doesn't have the conversion of the old city hall into an Aloft hotel or a number of the new housing projects.

It also does not include the BOK Center, Oneok Field, the expanded convention center, all the streetscaping that's been done, the rebuilt roads and highways.

Put that all together and the total downtown over last 5-6 years has to be pushing a billion dollars.

Tulsa's growth rate the last few years has been in the 1-1.5% per year range while Oklahoma City has been in the 2% range. OKC's growth has been faster, but not greatly so and it's Oklahoma City's growth rate is nothing like fast growing cities such as Dallas or Atlanta.

Last edited by swake; 06-14-2012 at 07:34 PM..
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Old 06-14-2012, 07:40 PM
 
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The next big project for Tulsa is the new $150 million park on the river in Brookside. It will be part of Riverparks

A Gathering Place For Tulsa | Tulsa, OK

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Old 06-15-2012, 12:26 AM
 
Location: Wind comes sweeping down the...
1,586 posts, read 6,758,092 times
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such a homer. its ridiculous beyond ridiculousness....
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Old 06-15-2012, 01:02 AM
 
Location: The State Of California
10,400 posts, read 15,581,661 times
Reputation: 4283
Quote:
Originally Posted by happytown View Post
So all the new stuff happening in the "older" parts of OKC and everything that I see everyday is not there? I will take into account that your a Tulsa homer, but please explain in detail bc I must be blind!

Tulsa (city) QuickFacts from the US Census Bureau

Oklahoma City (city) QuickFacts from the US Census Bureau
Oklahoma City is exploding population and new infill wise...howow2012...
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Old 06-15-2012, 01:15 AM
 
Location: The State Of California
10,400 posts, read 15,581,661 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swake View Post
Why don't you refer back to the $386 million in development noted in this article going on downtown right now. The whole northside of downtown is a big construction site. The east side of downtown is about to be.

Downtown Tulsa development is booming | Tulsa World

I will also tell you that list far from complete, there are many other projects they missed. It doesn't include the new park by Land Legacy, the three downtown Churches that are massively expanding, All Souls Church that's moving back downtown. It doesn't have the conversion of the old city hall into an Aloft hotel or a number of the new housing projects.

It also does not include the BOK Center, Oneok Field, the expanded convention center, all the streetscaping that's been done, the rebuilt roads and highways.

Put that all together and the total downtown over last 5-6 years has to be pushing a billion dollars.

Tulsa's growth rate the last few years has been in the 1-1.5% per year range while Oklahoma City has been in the 2% range. OKC's growth has been faster, but not greatly so and it's Oklahoma City's growth rate is nothing like fast growing cities such as Dallas or Atlanta.
Tulsa is exploding infill wise , I saw it with my own eyes March 26Th thur April 4Th 2012 , and will be
back again in 2013....Spring....
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Old 06-15-2012, 01:22 AM
 
Location: The State Of California
10,400 posts, read 15,581,661 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by knrstz View Post
If the things happening in OKC were happening in Tulsa,


The tax payers of Tulsa would have a heart attack or stroke or at the very least a panic attack or nervous breakdown...

it would have more of an impact, imo. Tulsa is a prettier city where people are more naturally drawn. However you cant ignore the fact that OKC is doing a lot right. I don't really think Tulsa is comparable with Detroit, but it's development is much slower than OKC's.
Tulsa Oklahoma had a ( Little Detroit Moment ) it's nothing like Detroit , just lost 1% of it's population as opposed to Detroit over 50 %...of it's population. And let me give the only local city like Detroit away ...it's none other than St. Louis Missouri......

Last edited by Howest2008; 06-15-2012 at 01:45 AM..
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Old 06-15-2012, 01:24 AM
 
Location: The State Of California
10,400 posts, read 15,581,661 times
Reputation: 4283
Quote:
Originally Posted by happytown View Post
such a homer. its ridiculous beyond ridiculousness....

You watch that crazy show......I watch it every blue moon.....
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