Went to "Nightmare" at GUTS church tonight!!! Wow!!! (Washington: coupons, live in)

[tookey]

Here's my take on this. As I said before whatever it takes to turn a kid around be it a church setting or dragging their fannies to a prison setting to scare them straight it's all good. Raelyn I have heard alot of good things about Guts church. I applaud you for trying to show your boys the good path. Now people don't get me wrong I also don't get me wrong I don't believe in the hell and brimstone tactics but something to show kids what can happen if the wrong decisions are made. In todays society a parent needs all the help they can get it's a differant world out there.

[Jammie]

Anne, there's nothing wrong with debate except that often it leads to spats and hard feelings. Maybe that's why they always say never to discuss religion or politics. Actually, I rarely even wander into those forums on CD.

GP, I understand what you're saying. I believe the main difference is the fact that many people in OK are Baptist. Now don't get me wrong, the Bible study group I used to belong to had a few Baptists in it. In fact, my husband was brought up in that religion. I actually like several of the beliefs and I was fascinated in their beliefs of the Rapture, etc. But it's just a different mindset then I can get feel comfy with and my husband is also more comfy with another religion.

I did a bit of a check and more people in my city consider themselves to be Christian/Religious. My city comes in at 81% and Tulsa comes in at 57%. Our difference is that we are mainly Catholic, Lutheran, and Methodist here. I'm not really into controlling or judgmental attitudes so I'll just stick with my current religion.

[Goodpasture]

One of the interesting things about being in a Bible oriented community, is that in many aspects, you have to make a decision. When you are buffeted by people who ask "Have you found a church home yet?" or "Would you like to join us at our church this week?" etc........you will often think "Just what is it I believe or don't believe or disbelieve, and why?" As a consequence of the predominate faith being so public, people will think it through.......

In areas such as where you are, people, not confronted with this kind of "pressure," will assume the faith of their upbringing and of their parents. they will say "I'm Lutheran," or "I'm Catholic" out of habit, not out of any profession of substantial faith. they attend services, often just the major events....Christmas, Easter, and when mom makes them. I'm not saying they don't actually believe, it is just a part of their lives they don't think about.....faith decisions just isn't in the forefront of their lives.

I am not criticizing those with a genuine faith and I know there are lots of strong Christians in every community....but I think there are a lot of "Christians in name only" throughout the country.......but in the Bible belt, because it becomes a frequent topic of conversation, there are less here than in many areas.

I think you will find far more "sects" of Christianity here than elsewhere for this same reason. I differ in the fundamentals so I gather with those who agree with me.....in those communities with larger mainstream churches and less small churches with divergent beliefs the confronting of evangelicals and thus being forced to consider ones faith is less prevalent.

[Bass&Catfish2008]

Originally Posted by Goodpasture

I can preach if you want.........



But it is difficult to discuss Oklahoma in any meaningful fashion unless you consider the tremendous influence and undercurrent of Christianity. What many people do not realize (and Sally Kern is an example) is that just because I say I am a Christian and you say you are one as well, does not mean we see eye to eye on lots of topics. Oklahoma Christians support divergent views.....from insisting we protect each other from evil by voting against casinos, to those who believe it is an individuals responsibility to do what they should, without regulatory oversight.

As a state, Oklahoma needs to be discussed with the evangelical Christian majority well in mind......not discussing it would be a disservice.

>>>>>
As a state, Oklahoma needs to be discussed with the evangelical Christian majority well in mind......not discussing it would be a disservice.
<<<<<

Bingo. Absolutely GP.

[Raelyn28]

I agree with debates being more interesting than superficial chat but I have made quite a few people very angry with my controversial subject matter on this forum. My desire and goal for posting on this forum is to express my concerns, gratitude and share my experiences whether good or bad with others. It is a city-data forum and I have found it to be helpful when I am seeking out different things to do, places to go, and areas to stay away from.

Sometimes people (not you) have become really offended and put-off by some of my comments, and I think many people take things personal instead of looking at my comments as just being a concern. I guess that is why I said what I said about subjects turning into debates. Maybe I should have used another term

Originally Posted by Annemieke Roell

As I said before, that only works for those who believe in that stuff.

BTW ... what is wrong with debates? They sure are a lot more interesting than superficial chitchat.

[Raelyn28]

Originally Posted by Raelyn28

I agree with debates being more interesting than superficial chat but I have made quite a few people very angry with my controversial subject matter on this forum. My desire and goal for posting on this forum is to express my concerns, gratitude and share my experiences whether good or bad with others. It is a city-data forum and I have found it to be helpful when I am seeking out different things to do, places to go, and areas to stay away from.

Sometimes people (not you) have become really offended and put-off by some of my comments, and I think many people take things personal instead of looking at my comments as just being a concern. I guess that is why I said what I said about subjects turning into debates. Maybe I should have used another term

As far as your comment about "for those who believe in that stuff". Do you mean believe in the Bible?

[Raelyn28]

And out of respect I will not mention any names. We have attended a couple of churches (one of them for three weeks in a row). Not ONE person came up to my family and said "Hi how are you, where are you from"? Let me back that up. The pastor's wife came up to us after the service only because I mentioned on our second visit that not one person even acknowledged that we were there the first time we attended. My son attended youth group at the church and again not one person said anything to him (not even the youth pastor). We also attended a Christian concert at a church and the same thing happened.

So I am finding that in the name of Christianity something is missing that is very important. And that is a personal "reaching out" to human beings that are in need. Whether that need is to get to know people, the need for food, shelter, a job or whatever, I think churches need to be careful that they are not losing people because of their lack of concern or love. People need to be noticed and acknowledged.

Now I am not saying that there IS NOT a church around here that does that. I am just saying that we haven't found one yet. We plan on attending "GUTS" and we will see how that goes.

I also want to add, so that certain people don't think I am only talking negatively about Tulsa, that I have experienced this in other cities as well. It is sad and although it isn't enough to discourage me from going to church or believing in God I believe it can be a stumbling block to people who aren't Christians or who are new to Christianity. It is a real problem that needs to be discussed amongst the church leadership.

To walk the walk is very hard and few succeed. We are all vulnerable to complacency and lack of sensitivity... May we all be more aware of others.

I really appreciate all the comments on this thread. It is a VERY good thing to discuss these things... Have a great week.

Originally Posted by Goodpasture

One of the interesting things about being in a Bible oriented community, is that in many aspects, you have to make a decision. When you are buffeted by people who ask "Have you found a church home yet?" or "Would you like to join us at our church this week?" etc........you will often think "Just what is it I believe or don't believe or disbelieve, and why?" As a consequence of the predominate faith being so public, people will think it through.......

In areas such as where you are, people, not confronted with this kind of "pressure," will assume the faith of their upbringing and of their parents. they will say "I'm Lutheran," or "I'm Catholic" out of habit, not out of any profession of substantial faith. they attend services, often just the major events....Christmas, Easter, and when mom makes them. I'm not saying they don't actually believe, it is just a part of their lives they don't think about.....faith decisions just isn't in the forefront of their lives.

I am not criticizing those with a genuine faith and I know there are lots of strong Christians in every community....but I think there are a lot of "Christians in name only" throughout the country.......but in the Bible belt, because it becomes a frequent topic of conversation, there are less here than in many areas.

I think you will find far more "sects" of Christianity here than elsewhere for this same reason. I differ in the fundamentals so I gather with those who agree with me.....in those communities with larger mainstream churches and less small churches with divergent beliefs the confronting of evangelicals and thus being forced to consider ones faith is less prevalent.

[Goodpasture]

Originally Posted by Raelyn28

As far as your comment about "for those who believe in that stuff". Do you mean believe in the Bible?

In a word, yes. I do not accept the Bible as the inerrant "Word of God" and I find it of secondary (or third) importance in the development of a relationship with God.

For more on this subject, you can find posts on the Christian forum....this is not the place to discuss personal faith and theology issues.

[Bass&Catfish2008]

Originally Posted by Raelyn28

And out of respect I will not mention any names. We have attended a couple of churches (one of them for three weeks in a row). Not ONE person came up to my family and said "Hi how are you, where are you from"? Let me back that up. The pastor's wife came up to us after the service only because I mentioned on our second visit that not one person even acknowledged that we were there the first time we attended. My son attended youth group at the church and again not one person said anything to him (not even the youth pastor). We also attended a Christian concert at a church and the same thing happened.

So I am finding that in the name of Christianity something is missing that is very important. And that is a personal "reaching out" to human beings that are in need. Whether that need is to get to know people, the need for food, shelter, a job or whatever, I think churches need to be careful that they are not losing people because of their lack of concern or love. People need to be noticed and acknowledged.

Now I am not saying that there IS NOT a church around here that does that. I am just saying that we haven't found one yet. We plan on attending "GUTS" and we will see how that goes.

I also want to add, so that certain people don't think I am only talking negatively about Tulsa, that I have experienced this in other cities as well. It is sad and although it isn't enough to discourage me from going to church or believing in God I believe it can be a stumbling block to people who aren't Christians or who are new to Christianity. It is a real problem that needs to be discussed amongst the church leadership.

To walk the walk is very hard and few succeed. We are all vulnerable to complacency and lack of sensitivity... May we all be more aware of others.

I really appreciate all the comments on this thread. It is a VERY good thing to discuss these things... Have a great week.

>>>>>
I also want to add, so that certain people don't think I am only talking negatively about Tulsa, that I have experienced this in other cities as well. It is sad and although it isn't enough to discourage me from going to church or believing in God I believe it can be a stumbling block to people who aren't Christians or who are new to Christianity. It is a real problem that needs to be discussed amongst the church leadership.
<<<<<

This is so true. As one that has grown up in Oklahoma/Texas, lived on the East/West Coast, lived in the Deep South, as well as visited the Midwest many times....I have experienced this everywhere. IMO, it may be more prevalent in the South (such as in OK/TX, etc.) because of our prevalence of mega-churches. From my experience, the larger the church the less likely the church will be skilled in greeting new members and making them feel welcome.

I agree with you 110% that this is a church leadership issue. One would think that it is common sense to simply say "hello" to someone new at church. This is not the case, however. Our preachers/teachers need to constantly hammer the idea home of being welcoming and outreach-minded to visitors of the church. Churches that don't do this do a disservice to Jesus Christ, the One True God they are seeking to worship and glorify.

[Jammie]

Raelyn, I would church hop just the way we bar hopped in our younger days. There has GOT to be one that you'd like and feel more welcome in and be comfy with. I think Bass hit it right on the head when he said that mega-churches may be the problem.

I'm not familiar with the church that's being talked about in this thread so I really don't know what denomination you are. We absolutely loved the Boston Ave. Methodist Church when we visited, but we got there too late to attend services. One of their members did come out of his car during pouring rain to tell us something was cancelled so that gave us a good impression. But honestly, I'm not sure it'd be the right place for us. There's the cutest little Presbyterian Church and it looked like they have the perfect size congregation. The structure of it caught our eye cause it's just so cute.

If you're not deadset on one specific denomination, you could have a lot of variety there. I actually kind of like non-denominational churches. Just less politics in them, it seems. And yea, just because people attend church every Sunday does not mean they're all sincere or that they're all good people or that they'll even reach out to a stranger. I'd shop around.

My husband is chatty and he's a joker. When we've vacationed and visited churches, when he walks out and shakes the Pastor's hand, he often tells him that we came all the way from South Dakota just to hear him preach. LOL That often lightens the mood and it's a good conversation starter. It even brings a chuckle from people who are standing nearby. Maybe you could try something like that? "We moved all the way from the PNW just to attend your church." LOL It's worth a try.