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Pete didn't set up anything...he ordered Joan to do it and then further offended her by telling her she would be allowed to give the office tour. Pete didn't even want Joan present at the meeting which is what Joan intially wanted. Joan was trying to work with Pete and Pete wanted all of the credit for himself. Pete got screwed due to his sense of entitlement. If he had his secretary set up the meeting instead of being condescending to Joan and trying to push her back into a role she hasn't held in years then there would have been a different outcome.
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Originally Posted by Grandstander
Okay, now we are distorting facts on behalf of Joan. Pete didn't shove "the women aside", did he? He set up a meeting which Peggy was to attend, so she isn't being shoved aside and she is female, isn't she? Pete "shoved aside" the office manager who isn't in the accounts department and isn't in the creative department and by the structure of the partnership, isn't supposed to be at such meetings. How horrible, what a monster this Pete is.
This idea of Joan's entitlement to suddenly become an accounts manager is bizarre.
Aaah,it does get confusing doesn't it. I've watched the show since day one, and many episodes on DVD a few times to get things straight. It's fast moving at times, but some of the characters are let's say, more impressive, than others. And some like Danny aren't around very long to make any kind of impression.
Yes, it does, and we have the talented, wildly innovative Matthew Weiner to thank for all the MADness. I especially love how the creator of these characters can connect with the audience and actually build a sympathetic following for a character like Pete, who is definitely no friend to women, possibly because he needs them so desperately.
Pete is a sniveling weasel. Always has been and until he got baked at the end of the show, he's probably not so much now.
Joan did nothing wrong. She's a partner, regardless of how she got there at this point, she should have to drum up business. Business deals fall in your lap at any time. Joan didn't go to that dinner with the intent of getting Avon on board. It just happened that way and she had the business sense that it was going to have to be her that maintains it. She told Pete ... Pete just chose to be a priss about it. It's obvious the firm is evolving and old ways of doing things, just because "that's how it's always been done", is over. The 60's were good for that.
And it's NOT Roger Sterling's firm, it's Roger Sterling's FATHER'S firm ... Roger was born into it. He's never had to work a day in his life.
That just isn't true. If you go back and watch all the years of the show, you will note that Pete is frequently the only serious person in some office crisis. Pete has been the one trying to patch things up and keep the focus on business when the creative types were willing to blow it all up because of some fit of artistic temperament. Pete has been the one to keep working while everyone else is sitting around drinking.
The most frequent cause of Pete's complaints have been the others agreeing to one thing, and then going off in some other direction because of their mood of the day or preference for blowing off a meeting in favor of pursuing personal pleasures.
Lane sort of got the same treatment, he would work hard on establishing procedures and the others would just ignore him according to their own caprice.
I'm not kidding, if you go back and watch from the start, that sort of thing happens to Pete again and again.
Really, I don't see any reason for the two of us to argue about this. It's clear from our past exchanges, that your corporate background is different from mine. And I think we both bring a lot to these discussions because our backgrounds are so different. I see Pete as someone who feels entitled to his position and authority, and who whines and complains whenever that position and authority are threatened. The problem is that he whines and complains that things are supposed to be a certain way, a way that is to his advantage, because they are SUPPOSED to be that way. He's living in an era where people are questioning why are things SUPPOSED to be this way or that way. Why can't things be different?
And yes, Pete has lots of conflicts with creative, because the challenge in the creative department is to not think about things the way your are SUPPOSED to think about them. Creative requires creativity, imagination, thinking about possibilities, and trying things, experimenting. And Lane, whose job was accounting, wasn't an experimenter, either. And I think Pete and Lane both loved/hated the changes that were happening in society and in the business world. Lane loved the United States because business and society in the US weren't as rigid as they were in England. And Lane found that exciting. Pete is intrigued by the changes happening in society, but only embraces those changes that further his sense of entitlement.
Pete is very focused. He likes the security of procedures and rules. He sees the world as needing a framework and guidelines. Peggy does, too. That was her boyfriend's complaint. But Peggy's perspective, as a woman, allows her to see how the existing framework and guidelines are designed for the benefit of men, like Pete and Don and Roger and Ted. Peggy wants a piece of that pie. She's got the talent that has opened the door for her. Joan has talent, too. Her organizational skills, her intelligence, should have opened doors, but didn't. Her looks did. They weren't the doors she wanted to walk through, but if she wanted to move upward, she had to move, she had to walk through doors. Now she's a partner. And she wants her organizational skills and her intelligence to be recognized. She needs them to be recognized, because her looks are going to fade. And that means she's got to take on more and different responsibilities in the office. Pete actively blocked her from doing so. So she went around him.
Pete is a sniveling weasel. Always has been and until he got baked at the end of the show, he's probably not so much now.
Joan did nothing wrong. She's a partner, regardless of how she got there at this point, she should have to drum up business. Business deals fall in your lap at any time. Joan didn't go to that dinner with the intent of getting Avon on board. It just happened that way and she had the business sense that it was going to have to be her that maintains it. She told Pete ... Pete just chose to be a priss about it. It's obvious the firm is evolving and old ways of doing things, just because "that's how it's always been done", is over. The 60's were good for that.
And it's NOT Roger Sterling's firm, it's Roger Sterling's FATHER'S firm ... Roger was born into it. He's never had to work a day in his life.
Roger's father founded the firm. Roger inherited it. It's still his firm. And Pete can't have Roger's office because it is Roger's firm.
Joan has talent, too. Her organizational skills, her intelligence, should have opened doors, but didn't. Her looks did. They weren't the doors she wanted to walk through, but if she wanted to move upward, she had to move, she had to walk through doors. Now she's a partner. And she wants her organizational skills and her intelligence to be recognized. She needs them to be recognized, because her looks are going to fade. And that means she's got to take on more and different responsibilities in the office. Pete actively blocked her from doing so. So she went around him.
I think Joan even sold herself short in this instance, because she initially assumed that her friend at Avon was trying to set her up on a date (capitalizing on her looks,) not throwing some business toward her friend Joan the advertising exec.
Pete is copping all the flak here but keep in mind St. Peggy and Ted also think she did the wrong thing...
But, if she gets the account, all will be forgiven!
I don't know that Peggy and Ted think she did the wrong thing. Peggy and Ted see the risk she took. Joan's never closed a deal, which is why she brought Peggy along. Peggy has closed deals, even though she's just head of copywriting. And Peggy's seen Don and Pete and Ted close deals. So Peggy and Ted see that Joan's inexperience was a disadvantage at this stage, and Pete's an expert at closing the deal. Joan took a huge risk. And Peggy and Joan's discussion after, was about Peggy being made complicit in Joan's manipulation of the situation, which was unfair to Peggy. And about, though they are allies and somewhat friends, that they have issues that revolve around how women advance their careers.
At an ad agency, if the agency gets the account, all is always forgiven.
[quote=DC at the Ridge;29865815]I don't know that Peggy and Ted think she did the wrong thing. Peggy and Ted see the risk she took. Joan's never closed a deal, which is why she brought Peggy along. Peggy has closed deals, even though she's just head of copywriting. And Peggy's seen Don and Pete and Ted close deals. So Peggy and Ted see that Joan's inexperience was a disadvantage at this stage, and Pete's an expert at closing the deal. Joan took a huge risk. And Peggy and Joan's discussion after, was about Peggy being made complicit in Joan's manipulation of the situation, which was unfair to Peggy. And about, though they are allies and somewhat friends, that they have issues that revolve around how women advance their careers.
At an ad agency, if the agency gets the account, all is always forgiven.[/quote]
In "Mad Men", are the "bad guys" sometimes more likeable than the "good guys"?
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I've watched the show since day one, and many episodes on DVD a few times to get things straight. It's fast moving at times, but some of the characters are let's say, more impressive, than others. And some like Danny aren't around very long to make any kind of impression. 
I especially love how the creator of these characters can connect with the audience and actually build a sympathetic following for a character like Pete, who is definitely no friend to women, possibly because he needs them so desperately. 
