Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
And I'll be the first to admit (and as a former student of history, I'm ashamed to admit this), but it's hard not to look through rose colored glasses of the current times and cast aspersions on these characters.
Which is the reason we are so troubled by Don's behavior. What he's done is terrible. However, within the context of the times it was more accepted (I am not convinced even back then that it was widespread).
Quote:
The only character in the show that has half an ounce of morality is Bert Cooper. But then again, we don't know the foolishness he participated in when he was Roger and Don's age.
Good point. And they see Bert as the semi-senile old man, yet he's the one with the most wisdom.
Quote:
Don Draper is the perfect anti-hero. You HATE to like him, but you do. C'mon, admit it. I think part of Don's appeal is the fact that he is $#@! good at what he does. It's great to see him working. It's the other stuff that makes us cringe, but as far as being an ad guy? Awesome.
Nail on the head! I started a MM discussion thread on another forum titled: "Mad Men Discussion: or how to simultaneously love and hate Don Draper."
I'd also put Walter White from Breaking Bad as the perfect anti-hero.
Quote:
Can't wait for Sally to see the Beatles! It's going to rock her world and then it's over ... she'll be in full on rebellion. She'll have like minded friends and that will be her strength. Woodstock here she comes!
Good point! The Beatles premiered on Ed Sullivan in February of 1964 (9 months before where we currently are) so we should see Beatlemania soon.
looking on imdb ... looks like Kinsey is gone along with Sal. Have I missed Paul Cosgrove's character this season???
I think it's Ken Cosgrove and, yes, he appears to be gone as well. The only way I can see them as being part of the show is if/when they were to do a plotline that incorporated the "old" Sterling Cooper, which is now McKan. However, SCDP's competition seems to be "Y&R" and some other company whose name I have forgotten. They haven't even mentioned the former SterlingCooper, and I get the feeling that they won't b/c, as Matt Weiner stated, "this season is all about change." The crux is to see all of consequences of those changes and then have each episode explain what happened [in the year since last season] during that time of change and how everyone is dealing with it.
And re: Betty, she did meet an independent woman (at least, by '60's standards): Helen Bishop. I remember the scene when Betty finally broke her facade and told Helen that Don was not living at the house. For Betty, it was a huge step forward. I also don't think that marrying Henry was a step back but, rather, a min-step forward. Yes, we'd all love to see her truly independent but that is very unrealistic. The fact that she got divorced and then married a man who was probably not going to cheat on her or appreciate her only for her image (I think that Henry is the first character who actually loves and respects Betty--he was furious when his mother spoke ungenerously about Betty) was a step forward.
No, there will be a full season. I think they've only released the titles of the first six.
I did too! Glad I wasn't alone there. Is it bad that I was kind of rooting for that?
I think one of two things will happen: 1) Henry will be the father figure Betty is wanting...but it will not be what Henry wants. And Sally's rebellion is going to be their downfall. 2) Betty will realize she is no better off with Henry than Don. And Sally's rebellion is going to be their downfall.
I totally agree, and we all saw how MIL feels about the whole situation
I think it's Ken Cosgrove and, yes, he appears to be gone as well. The only way I can see them as being part of the show is if/when they were to do a plotline that incorporated the "old" Sterling Cooper, which is now McKan.
I suspect we'll see Paul and/or Ken at some point. Maybe not this year, but down the road. They allowed Duck to resurface (I think he'll also be back sometime...I love to hate him!) so it makes sense that they might offer a glimpse of what McKan is like by showing Paul/Ken or someone.
At least I hope to see a glimpse of what happened in the aftermath of Sterling, Cooper, Draper, and Pryce leaving.
I think it's Ken Cosgrove and, yes, he appears to be gone as well. The only way I can see them as being part of the show is if/when they were to do a plotline that incorporated the "old" Sterling Cooper, which is now McKan. However, SCDP's competition seems to be "Y&R" and some other company whose name I have forgotten. They haven't even mentioned the former SterlingCooper, and I get the feeling that they won't b/c, as Matt Weiner stated, "this season is all about change." The crux is to see all of consequences of those changes and then have each episode explain what happened [in the year since last season] during that time of change and how everyone is dealing with it.
And re: Betty, she did meet an independent woman (at least, by '60's standards): Helen Bishop. I remember the scene when Betty finally broke her facade and told Helen that Don was not living at the house. For Betty, it was a huge step forward. I also don't think that marrying Henry was a step back but, rather, a min-step forward. Yes, we'd all love to see her truly independent but that is very unrealistic. The fact that she got divorced and then married a man who was probably not going to cheat on her or appreciate her only for her image (I think that Henry is the first character who actually loves and respects Betty--he was furious when his mother spoke ungenerously about Betty) was a step forward.
I think Henry loves Betty. They're gonna have a handful with Sally. And MIL VS Betty confront would be wild
I think Henry loves Betty. They're gonna have a handful with Sally. And MIL VS Betty confront would be wild
Betty would definitely win. It's very clear that Henry is not a momma's boy.
Re: Sally, she definitely is her father's daughter, which is a lot of the reason why she and Betty have so many conflicts. Betty clearly resents Sally for preferring/idolizing her father, which Sally does b/c Don is/was never the one disciplining her or her brother. Like many fathers of that era (and even this one), he gets to play the good guy role while the mother, in the role of disciplinarian, is always the bad guy. I remember the issue from season 2 (?), when Betty got on Don for not disciplining the kids, and immediately recognized it as a common theme/issue between married couples that is still prevalent even today. Betty is clearly always getting the short end of the stick.
Divorce laws were not favorable to women back then. They were encouraged not to work and had limited rights as far as support. If I'm not mistaken a woman could be married for many years, encouraged to stay home, and if her husband sought a divorce she could not collect on his Social Security. I think that's changed. A lot of women activists in the sixties became discouraged when the ERA failed to pass. I know cases where parents would pay for a son's college education, but not the daughters. Hard to believe nowadays. Also imagine "white flight." If a black family moved into a neighborhood, almost the entire street would move. Very sad.
Divorce laws were not favorable to women back then. They were encouraged not to work and had limited rights as far as support. If I'm not mistaken a woman could be married for many years, encouraged to stay home, and if her husband sought a divorce she could not collect on his Social Security. I think that's changed. A lot of women activists in the sixties became discouraged when the ERA failed to pass. I know cases where parents would pay for a son's college education, but not the daughters. Hard to believe nowadays. Also imagine "white flight." If a black family moved into a neighborhood, almost the entire street would move. Very sad.
Remember that ep when she consulted with the family lawyer who told her to stay in the marriage b/c her husband was a good provider, as if to say that was the only thing that a man had to do in order to be considered a good husband and father?! My goodness, I would have jumped off of a bridge I felt so badly for Betty in that ep b/c she was so right to be unhappy and discontented with her marriage and, yet, she got no support from anyone And then she has her daughter blaiming her for the divorce on top of all of it. No wonder Valium was prescribed in large quantities.
Remember that ep when she consulted with the family lawyer who told her to stay in the marriage b/c her husband was a good provider, as if to say that was the only thing that a man had to do in order to be considered a good husband and father?! My goodness, I would have jumped off of a bridge I felt so badly for Betty in that ep b/c she was so right to be unhappy and discontented with her marriage and, yet, she got no support from anyone And then she has her daughter blaiming her for the divorce on top of all of it. No wonder Valium was prescribed in large quantities.
Yes. Also people criticize Betty for not getting a job. Remember she was a model when she met Don. When she tried to resume her career, Don torpedoed it. Men of Don's ilk did not want their wives working. A successful man thought he would be seen as not able to support his family and looked down upon. I remember comments like, "no wife of mine is going to work."
Yes. Also people criticize Betty for not getting a job. Remember she was a model when she met Don. When she tried to resume her career, Don torpedoed it. Men of Don's ilk did not want their wives working. A successful man thought he would be seen as not able to support his family and looked down upon. I remember comments like, "no wife of mine is going to work."
As you previously stated, it is very easy to judge when looking back. But what most don't realize is that working really wasn't an option for women such as Betty; it would have meant that she was a failure. In fact, that was the goal for every woman, even those who were working, which means that Betty--as a woman married to a successful and handsome exec--was considered a success and, even, the ideal (much like Jackie O.).
There have also been many comments that she should never have been a mother, which I find comical, as everyone was raising their kids the way that Betty is raising Sally and Bobby. Also, it is interesting that no one comments that Don should never have been a father (or husband). I think the whole point of Don and Betty is to demonstrate that, although they were the norm for the era, that ideal was just that--completely unrealistic and, ultimately, dysfunctional. But I don't like the idea of people judging her so harshly; I don't think that anyone should decide/judge who should or should not have children, especially those who are not living in that time and who do not understand it or what she (and Don) were going through.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I felt so badly for Betty in that ep b/c she was so right to be unhappy and discontented with her marriage and, yet, she got no support from anyone 
And then she has her daughter blaiming her for the divorce on top of all of it. No wonder Valium was prescribed in large quantities.
