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I can't bring myself to watch this. Certainly improved dress, hygiene and manners wouldn't hurt current day USA but as someone who grew up when women weren't allowed to play sports, only be cheerleaders, couldn't be anything but a nurse or secretary...it seems sad and scary to be watching essentially a soap opera that celebrates all that. If you didn't hold those sorts of opinions (woman are only good for a few certain things) you were reviled, ostracized, called names.
A trip down memory lane for some
a worrisome look at the possible rollback to the future for others
I can't bring myself to watch this. Certainly improved dress, hygiene and manners wouldn't hurt current day USA but as someone who grew up when women weren't allowed to play sports, only be cheerleaders, couldn't be anything but a nurse or secretary...it seems sad and scary to be watching essentially a soap opera that celebrates all that. If you didn't hold those sorts of opinions (woman are only good for a few certain things) you were reviled, ostracized, called names.
A trip down memory lane for some
a worrisome look at the possible rollback to the future for others
I didn't think of it in that way. Hopefully they will show some of the effort that was made in the 60's to allow women to do these things. I am going to watch but if they glorify the limited role of women in those times I probably won't continue.
In Mad Men a few women do get ahead like Peggy Olson. It did happen sometimes. And then it began to happen more and more as time went by. I am hoping that maybe the show Pan Am will bring us to the place where women are finally allowed to be pilots.
I can't bring myself to watch this. Certainly improved dress, hygiene and manners wouldn't hurt current day USA but as someone who grew up when women weren't allowed to play sports, only be cheerleaders, couldn't be anything but a nurse or secretary...it seems sad and scary to be watching essentially a soap opera that celebrates all that. If you didn't hold those sorts of opinions (woman are only good for a few certain things) you were reviled, ostracized, called names.
A trip down memory lane for some
a worrisome look at the possible rollback to the future for others
It must have been different here on the West Coast...
Women did everything in WWII...
As to sports... it is true prior to 1900 Women did not compete in the modern Olympics.
A neighbor was a WWII flight instructor and there was an army of women pilots ferrying planes and building them...
Another neighbor of Chinese decent graduated from UC Berkeley in the early 1950's... there were not a lot like her... but the opportunity was there.
Here's a link of notable women in aviation starting in 1906
It must have been different here on the West Coast...
Women did everything in WWII...
As to sports... it is true prior to 1900 Women did not compete in the modern Olympics.
I neighbor was a WWII flight instructor and there was an army of women pilots ferrying planes and building them...
Another neighbor of Chinese decent graduated from UC Berkeley in the early 1950's... there were not a lot like her... but the opportunity was there.
That's true but after WWII and the men came home the women were had to go back to their homes and be housewives again so the men could take back their jobs.
That's true but after WWII and the men came home the women were had to go back to their homes and be housewives again so the men could take back their jobs.
Here's an interesting book on that very subject...
Not June Cleaver: women and gender in postwar America, 1945-1960
Joanne Jay Meyerowitz
Temple University Press, 1994 - Social Science - 411 pages
In the popular stereotype of post-World War II America, women abandoned their wartime jobs and contentedly retreated to the home. These mythical women were like the 1950s TV character June Cleaver, white, middle-class, suburban housewives. Not June Cleaver unveils the diversity of postwar women, showing how far women departed form this one-dimensional image.
This collection of fifteen revisionist essays charts new directions in American women's history and provides connections to scholarship that, until recently, has focused primarily on the years before 1945 and after 1960. The contributors explore the work and activism of postwar American women and also point to the contradictions and ambiguities in postwar concepts of gender.
Including examinations of such aspects of postwar women's history as the arrival of Chinese women immigrants in New York City; women's changing presence in the labor force and in union organization; and the precarious lives of women abortionists, lesbians, and single mothers, the authors effectively demonstrate how postwar women's identities were not only an expression of their gender but also of their class, race, ethnicity, sexual orientation, religion, occupation, and politics.
I did a thesis on this subject in college and coincidentally, portrayed a woman who was a pilot during WWII in a play written by a local playwright some years ago. In one of the scenes, she tells her granddaughters all about how women did the "men's jobs" during that time. They flew the planes from the manufarcturors to the air bases or from one air base to another but were never allowed to fly them in combat or in any of the arm forces departments.
Thank you for posting about this book. I am going to revv up my Kindle and order it.
I can't bring myself to watch this. Certainly improved dress, hygiene and manners wouldn't hurt current day USA but as someone who grew up when women weren't allowed to play sports, only be cheerleaders, couldn't be anything but a nurse or secretary...it seems sad and scary to be watching essentially a soap opera that celebrates all that. If you didn't hold those sorts of opinions (woman are only good for a few certain things) you were reviled, ostracized, called names.
A trip down memory lane for some
a worrisome look at the possible rollback to the future for others
Certainly 1963 was during those times.
However, the flight attendants of Pan Am were highly skilled, intelligent and highly respected. (That job cannot be compared with a cheerleader job) The pay was good, the benefits were all good, and it was a great career. There were many career male flight attendants, and the men and women were all on the same pay scale. A Pan Am flight attendant job was highly coveted.
There was a chain of command.
The captain is in charge of the entire airplane with
the co-pilot being second in command.
The purser is in charge of the cabin and other flight attendants. And they take charge in an admirable manner.
As I mentioned earlier, they had two primary duties.
One was cabin service, and
the primary duty, which most people fortunately never get to see is taking charge in the case of emergencies, and they risked their lives many times, and have saved many lives. They are to be commended for the job that they do.
I saw Pan Am evolve from an all white, all male cockpit, to equality. There were black co-pilots hired at the same time I was hired. We were friends and checked out as Captain at about the same time.
Later Pan Am hired female pilots. I was fortunate to fly with some of them as my co-pilot. They were from the military and were as sharp as any male pilot. Unfortunately, Pan Am folded before any of them checked out as Captain. They were all highly qualified to be Captains but we operated on a seniority system.
We know that glamor and sex sells, and that is the image that the show is apparently going to capitalized on.
If they get into some of the more realistic issues that the crew's face every day, while it is extremely important, it may not make for a good Series TV.
I see the inaccuracies and cringe, but I expected that. Still I'll watch the show for awhile, simply because it's Pan Am. If it gets too far out, and too convoluted then I'll reconsider.
As someone mentioned, the co-pilot getting on board and meeting the FA's for the first time, and coming off with his arrogant attitude is not realistic. The title "co-pilot" and "first officer" is synonymous. There is no difference, yet he became arrogant that he was not a co-pilot, he was a "first officer". He set a very bad tone which could alienate all the FA's on board.
Pilots have to develop a good rapport and working relationship with the FA's. We may have never met them before so we need to start off in a very professional and cooperative manner. We need to let them know that they can call on us at any time for any assistance they need. That's how you get off on the right foot.
If they think you're just an obnoxious jerk, then they may not call on you when they first need you, and things could deteriorate.
On a more personal note, the FA's control the meals. And on our 8-14 hour flights, one can get hungry. Get the purser mad at you and you may eat very late, and the "good meals" will be gone before you get what's left over.
But not to worry, if you get a steak and it falls on the floor, she or he will wash it off before putting it back on your tray.
I really think some people look into shows WAY too hard. It's for entertainment!!!
Exactly. I love it just for that. The music was great,; it wasn't violent, and we have a "Pan-Am" expert on this thread to let us know when the show really goes off course. I am settling in too enjoy the flight..
However, the flight attendants of Pan Am were highly skilled, intelligent and highly respected. (That job cannot be compared with a cheerleader job) The pay was good, the benefits were all good, and it was a great career. There were many career male flight attendants, and the men and women were all on the same pay scale. A Pan Am flight attendant job was highly coveted.
There was a chain of command.
The captain is in charge of the entire airplane with
the co-pilot being second in command.
The purser is in charge of the cabin and other flight attendants. And they take charge in an admirable manner.
As I mentioned earlier, they had two primary duties.
One was cabin service, and
the primary duty, which most people fortunately never get to see is taking charge in the case of emergencies, and they risked their lives many times, and have saved many lives. They are to be commended for the job that they do.
I saw Pan Am evolve from an all white, all male cockpit, to equality. There were black co-pilots hired at the same time I was hired. We were friends and checked out as Captain at about the same time.
Later Pan Am hired female pilots. I was fortunate to fly with some of them as my co-pilot. They were from the military and were as sharp as any male pilot. Unfortunately, Pan Am folded before any of them checked out as Captain. They were all highly qualified to be Captains but we operated on a seniority system.
We know that glamor and sex sells, and that is the image that the show is apparently going to capitalized on.
If they get into some of the more realistic issues that the crew's face every day, while it is extremely important, it may not make for a good Series TV.
I see the inaccuracies and cringe, but I expected that. Still I'll watch the show for awhile, simply because it's Pan Am. If it gets too far out, and too convoluted then I'll reconsider.
As someone mentioned, the co-pilot getting on board and meeting the FA's for the first time, and coming off with his arrogant attitude is not realistic. The title "co-pilot" and "first officer" is synonymous. There is no difference, yet he became arrogant that he was not a co-pilot, he was a "first officer". He set a very bad tone which could alienate all the FA's on board.
Pilots have to develop a good rapport and working relationship with the FA's. We may have never met them before so we need to start off in a very professional and cooperative manner. We need to let them know that they can call on us at any time for any assistance they need. That's how you get off on the right foot.
If they think you're just an obnoxious jerk, then they may not call on you when they first need you, and things could deteriorate.
On a more personal note, the FA's control the meals. And on our 8-14 hour flights, one can get hungry. Get the purser mad at you and you may eat very late, and the "good meals" will be gone before you get what's left over.
But not to worry, if you get a steak and it falls on the floor, she or he will wash it off before putting it back on your tray.
Too soon to rep you again....but your comments are really invaluable. Thanks for filling us. You're definitely the expert!!
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The music was great,