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Old 07-12-2017, 07:07 PM
 
Location: Michigan
1,784 posts, read 1,145,408 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tangelag View Post
So, Noonan was Asian?
Where did you get THAT from? Not one thing anywhere said he was Asian...

Interesting that different people post odd things out of the blue, or repeat stuff already brought up like they are making a revelation we never heard before, but who obviously don't even read back as much as 3 posts.

That doesn't happen just here though, seems to be on many forums.
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Old 07-12-2017, 07:15 PM
 
4,554 posts, read 2,022,675 times
Reputation: 5980
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeBear View Post
Where did you get THAT from? Not one thing anywhere said he was Asian...

Interesting that different people post odd things out of the blue, or repeat stuff already brought up like they are making a revelation we never heard before, but who obviously don't even read back as much as 3 posts.

That doesn't happen just here though, seems to be on many forums.
NOPE. Enlarged the photo.

P.S. I've read all the posts.
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Old 07-12-2017, 08:25 PM
 
8,144 posts, read 6,002,296 times
Reputation: 10554
Quote:
Originally Posted by in_newengland View Post
Google translates it as:

The life line of the sea My figure of the South Sea: South Seas archipelago photo book

Published date--showa 10.


The CNN article that claims to debunk the Saipan theory says that showa 10 means the 10th year of the Showa emperor or 1935. Could that date possibly be "off" either by mistake or by intention? I'd like proof that the photograph actually existed in 1935. Or maybe that the date give "could" be off by a few years.
That's the translation of the record.. What I posted was the actual translation (sort of) of the text on the page.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth View Post
Oh, a friend just emailed me a link to an article by a Japanese historian, about the book the photo came from.

Well, IMO, even if the photo is not of EA & Noonan, it wouldn't disprove the Saipan theory. It only would mean that the History program researcher chose the wrong item to feature in the show. He thought the photo was a big breakthrough, but an invalid photo doesn't discount all the testimony from the locals in the Marshals and Saipan. There's also testimony from former US servicemen who saw her plane being burned by US personnel on Saipan, and one guy who had her briefcase, after a safe was blown up, and he spotted a briefcase inside, and grabbed it, not knowing it was EA's. He was surprised the contents were "bone dry"; they were papers of EA. He didn't say what kind of papers.

But I suppose that oral testimony isn't hard proof, like a photo would be, or other document.
Someone who has Amazon Prime.. Go look through the Robert Stack episodes of Unsolved Mysteries and find the episode that focused on this. It was a good episode and did focus on the Saipan theory. Should be Season 3 episode 8.. Unless Amazon reorganizes the episodes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spazkat9696 View Post
Prior to this picture, this was the main theory I believed. I have to say it's a toss up between the two. I wonder how far apart are the islands are? https://www.seeker.com/amelia-earhar...765863284.html
There's about 2500 miles between Saipan and Nikumaroro. They have to be treated as an either/or theory. There's no way you can correlate that half of one is true and half the other is true.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeBear View Post
I don't believe a thing Tighar says. They've said every year for around 40 years that "we will find her THIS YEAR". They just keep searching that same island.

Also, if she and Noonan had landed on Howland/Nikumaroro, the search would have found her, hands down.

Unless they eventually find her skeleton in her plane, THEN I'll believe them. Until then, they have the least believable of all the theory's out there.

The Saipan theory holds far more truth to me.
The search most likely would have found her. I tend to agree.. However.. It didn't find the skeleton and sextant box under the tree.. Now.. That was found in 1940, and the searches were in 1937.. So, I suppose it's possible that guy landed and died there between those times.

One of the supposed (And the radio messages after the last official transmission have to be considered "supposed") radio messages in which "Amelia" referenced "The ship" or "The wreck" or something like that.. Which could have referred to the SS Norwich City that ran aground there and just in the past 10 years has rotted away.

But, I tend to agree.. If they made it there.. They should have been found. Dead or Alive. That is NOT a big island. Most of it is a lagoon. Google Earth it.

The Saipan theory is full of holes, too.. More holes, I'd say than Nikumaroro.. Because you have to assume with that, they didn't fly to Saipan, they were shot down elsewhere and taken there. And the verified radio transmissions put them very close to Howland. So, where could they have flown, with remaining fuel, to be shot down by the Japanese and the plane and them collected with no radio transmissions.. Wouldn't the first thing you'd do if you were being shot at be to radio for help?

Nikumaroro is just enough to keep my interest. The Saipan theory.. Not so much. The cat's paw heel.. The woman's makeup case that was found there.. Parts of a plane that match rivet patterns.. But neither is overly likely.

I just wish there was a more.. .trustworthy organization researching it than TIGHAR.
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Old 07-12-2017, 08:40 PM
 
Location: State of Transition
72,664 posts, read 64,140,481 times
Reputation: 68448
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spazkat9696 View Post
Apparently it went down in an area with a lot of coral. It was in the water, but not fully. At least that's how I understood it. I don't think she was shot down. It took the Japanese military a while to get there.
OK, this makes sense. It's true that the lagoon is/was shallow.
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Old 07-12-2017, 08:42 PM
 
Location: Michigan
1,784 posts, read 1,145,408 times
Reputation: 3933
Quote:
Originally Posted by Labonte18 View Post
That's the translation of the record.. What I posted was the actual translation (sort of) of the text on the page.



Someone who has Amazon Prime.. Go look through the Robert Stack episodes of Unsolved Mysteries and find the episode that focused on this. It was a good episode and did focus on the Saipan theory. Should be Season 3 episode 8.. Unless Amazon reorganizes the episodes.



There's about 2500 miles between Saipan and Nikumaroro. They have to be treated as an either/or theory. There's no way you can correlate that half of one is true and half the other is true.



The search most likely would have found her. I tend to agree.. However.. It didn't find the skeleton and sextant box under the tree.. Now.. That was found in 1940, and the searches were in 1937.. So, I suppose it's possible that guy landed and died there between those times.

One of the supposed (And the radio messages after the last official transmission have to be considered "supposed") radio messages in which "Amelia" referenced "The ship" or "The wreck" or something like that.. Which could have referred to the SS Norwich City that ran aground there and just in the past 10 years has rotted away.

But, I tend to agree.. If they made it there.. They should have been found. Dead or Alive. That is NOT a big island. Most of it is a lagoon. Google Earth it.

The Saipan theory is full of holes, too.. More holes, I'd say than Nikumaroro.. Because you have to assume with that, they didn't fly to Saipan, they were shot down elsewhere and taken there. And the verified radio transmissions put them very close to Howland. So, where could they have flown, with remaining fuel, to be shot down by the Japanese and the plane and them collected with no radio transmissions.. Wouldn't the first thing you'd do if you were being shot at be to radio for help?

Nikumaroro is just enough to keep my interest. The Saipan theory.. Not so much. The cat's paw heel.. The woman's makeup case that was found there.. Parts of a plane that match rivet patterns.. But neither is overly likely.

I just wish there was a more.. .trustworthy organization researching it than TIGHAR.
Nobody has said the Japanese actually "shot down" Amelia Earhart. It's always been that she landed OR crashed. There's enough evidence in the radio calls that she did actually land successfully. IF she had been shot down, she couldn't have made radio calls afterwards, as they would have either finished the job and killed her immediately, OR captured her immediately.

They didn't go look for her in the Marshal Islands, because the Japanese wouldn't let us in there to do so.
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Old 07-12-2017, 08:44 PM
 
Location: too far from the sea
17,985 posts, read 17,140,226 times
Reputation: 30120
It's kind of unfortunate that this thread is in the TV forum because it doesn't attract that many people. I would never have looked in the TV forum except that I happened to see the post about the upcoming TV show and was grateful to have been reminded.

Moving along, just in case anyone else is still here, it all seems to boil down to either that

"N" island with the shoe and other artifacts and where a team will be going in (again) with dogs. Where they supposedly existed for a while, living on fish and whatever they could find...OR

It crashed at Jaluit Atoll in the Marshall Islands or crashed at Mili Atoll, they were picked up by a Japanese fishing boat, then taken to Jaluit, where Noonan was treated for his knee and bruised head, then to Kwatalein. Or something like that. Saipan theory.

And please forgive the spellings as I am definitely not going to go back and try to look up places I will probably never need to spell ever again. The "N" island and the Marshalls are apparently about 1200 miles apart. I do give quite a bit of credence to the girl back in 1937 who lived in Florida and said she picked up the distress calls from the plane. She said that the male voice was incoherent at times (that rings true because he had sustained a head injury if we are to believe the eyewitness accounts of a white man with a bandaged head and also the medical person who had treated the white man with a head injury) and she said the woman became frantic toward the end. She said the woman kept telling the man to stay in the plane because she couldn't leave as she had to keep stay on and use the radio.

This ^^^ would lend more credibility to the Saipan theory. Also, Admiral Nimitz himself is said to have told the book author, Fred Goerner, that the Saipan part was true. Plus, there were so many eyewitnesses, kids who saw them and were told to keep quiet, a witness who said Noonan was beheaded and his head was carried around as a threat to others, the girl who took the laundry in the prison and said she saw a very sick white women with kind eyes, American military who saw the plane in 1944 in Japan when they were invading--said it was in a hanger, said the Americans destroyed it but they didn't know why.

Supposedly the word was put out by the Japanese in code but if the Americans had responded, it might have looked as though they understood the code (which they may have!) As to why any of this has been covered up--I never suspected any coverup--but if there was, it is theorized that we have needed the Japanese as allies ever since the war and the Japanese culture demands that they remain honorable and to not have committed such a shameful act. (However, I don't quite "get" this because it was war and we already know they tortured and killed people--we did the same. Maybe just that she was famous so it would have been shameful to kill her?)
__________________
my posts as moderator will be in red. Moderator: Health&Wellness~Genealogy. The Rules--read here>>> TOS. If someone attacks you, do not reply. Hit REPORT.

Last edited by in_newengland; 07-12-2017 at 08:55 PM..
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Old 07-12-2017, 08:52 PM
 
Location: too far from the sea
17,985 posts, read 17,140,226 times
Reputation: 30120
Quote:
Originally Posted by Labonte18 View Post
That's the translation of the record.. What I posted was the actual translation (sort of) of the text on the page.



Someone who has Amazon Prime.. Go look through the Robert Stack episodes of Unsolved Mysteries and find the episode that focused on this. It was a good episode and did focus on the Saipan theory. Should be Season 3 episode 8.. Unless Amazon reorganizes the episodes.



There's about 2500 miles between Saipan and Nikumaroro. They have to be treated as an either/or theory. There's no way you can correlate that half of one is true and half the other is true.



The search most likely would have found her. I tend to agree.. However.. It didn't find the skeleton and sextant box under the tree.. Now.. That was found in 1940, and the searches were in 1937.. So, I suppose it's possible that guy landed and died there between those times.

One of the supposed (And the radio messages after the last official transmission have to be considered "supposed") radio messages in which "Amelia" referenced "The ship" or "The wreck" or something like that.. Which could have referred to the SS Norwich City that ran aground there and just in the past 10 years has rotted away.

But, I tend to agree.. If they made it there.. They should have been found. Dead or Alive. That is NOT a big island. Most of it is a lagoon. Google Earth it.

The Saipan theory is full of holes, too.. More holes, I'd say than Nikumaroro.. Because you have to assume with that, they didn't fly to Saipan, they were shot down elsewhere and taken there. And the verified radio transmissions put them very close to Howland. So, where could they have flown, with remaining fuel, to be shot down by the Japanese and the plane and them collected with no radio transmissions.. Wouldn't the first thing you'd do if you were being shot at be to radio for help?

Nikumaroro is just enough to keep my interest. The Saipan theory.. Not so much. The cat's paw heel.. The woman's makeup case that was found there.. Parts of a plane that match rivet patterns.. But neither is overly likely.

I just wish there was a more.. .trustworthy organization researching it than TIGHAR.
I'm glad you came back! We must have been typing at the same time and I wrote my post based upon reading I've done today without the benefit of what you just wrote.

I'm confused about the locations and some other things. But I have NOT followed this case. I became interested as a child, and then heard about the size 9 women's Cats Paw shoe being found, and now this tv show. That's it. So even though I've always been interested, I never knew people were out looking for anything or that there were theories. Just the shoe thing, that's it.
__________________
my posts as moderator will be in red. Moderator: Health&Wellness~Genealogy. The Rules--read here>>> TOS. If someone attacks you, do not reply. Hit REPORT.
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Old 07-12-2017, 09:31 PM
 
Location: State of Transition
72,664 posts, read 64,140,481 times
Reputation: 68448
Quote:
Originally Posted by in_newengland View Post
It's kind of unfortunate that this thread is in the TV forum because it doesn't attract that many people. I would never have looked in the TV forum except that I happened to see the post about the upcoming TV show and was grateful to have been reminded.

Moving along, just in case anyone else is still here, it all seems to boil down to either that

"N" island with the shoe and other artifacts and where a team will be going in (again) with dogs. Where they supposedly existed for a while, living on fish and whatever they could find...OR

It crashed at Jaluit Atoll in the Marshall Islands or crashed at Mili Atoll, they were picked up by a Japanese fishing boat, then taken to Jaluit, where Noonan was treated for his knee and bruised head, then to Kwatalein. Or something like that. Saipan theory.

And please forgive the spellings as I am definitely not going to go back and try to look up places I will probably never need to spell ever again. The "N" island and the Marshalls are apparently about 1200 miles apart. I do give quite a bit of credence to the girl back in 1937 who lived in Florida and said she picked up the distress calls from the plane. She said that the male voice was incoherent at times (that rings true because he had sustained a head injury if we are to believe the eyewitness accounts of a white man with a bandaged head and also the medical person who had treated the white man with a head injury) and she said the woman became frantic toward the end. She said the woman kept telling the man to stay in the plane because she couldn't leave as she had to keep stay on and use the radio.

This ^^^ would lend more credibility to the Saipan theory. Also, Admiral Nimitz himself is said to have told the book author, Fred Goerner, that the Saipan part was true. Plus, there were so many eyewitnesses, kids who saw them and were told to keep quiet, a witness who said Noonan was beheaded and his head was carried around as a threat to others, the girl who took the laundry in the prison and said she saw a very sick white women with kind eyes, American military who saw the plane in 1944 in Japan when they were invading--said it was in a hanger, said the Americans destroyed it but they didn't know why.

Supposedly the word was put out by the Japanese in code but if the Americans had responded, it might have looked as though they understood the code (which they may have!) As to why any of this has been covered up--I never suspected any coverup--but if there was, it is theorized that we have needed the Japanese as allies ever since the war and the Japanese culture demands that they remain honorable and to not have committed such a shameful act. (However, I don't quite "get" this because it was war and we already know they tortured and killed people--we did the same. Maybe just that she was famous so it would have been shameful to kill her?)
How I see it is that they heard (via cracking the code) the Japanese mention that she was there, so they knew. But if they mounted a rescue, the Japanese would know they'd cracked the code, so they had to keep their knowledge of the code secret; therefore it was necessary for them to abandon her there.

But this raises the question: was that the first the US ever knew of her being held by the Japanese? They only learned about it after eavesdropping on their radio signals? Or did they somehow know earlier? And why did no one take that FL woman seriously, when she passed EA's message on? Maybe military authorities and the President didn't want to face having to deal with the Japanese? Or they couldn't see a way to approach the Japanese about her, since she had, in fact, been on a spy mission, which the US wouldn't want to admit?


Thx for your post #94, btw. Couldn't rep you.
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Old 07-12-2017, 09:32 PM
 
5,563 posts, read 7,637,571 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Labonte18 View Post

Someone who has Amazon Prime.. Go look through the Robert Stack episodes of Unsolved Mysteries and find the episode that focused on this. It was a good episode and did focus on the Saipan theory. Should be Season 3 episode 8.. Unless Amazon reorganizes the episodes.
I have prime, if I have time and remember I'll look tomorrow.

Thanks for the distance explanation.
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Old 07-12-2017, 09:34 PM
 
5,563 posts, read 7,637,571 times
Reputation: 5829
Quote:
Originally Posted by tangelag View Post
So, Noonan was Asian?
Nope, I do wonder about him though. He's overlooked in most stories. I wonder about his family.
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