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Old 07-07-2017, 03:58 AM
Status: "happy again, no longer catless! t...." (set 11 days ago)
 
Location: Cushing OK
14,426 posts, read 16,706,332 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spazkat9696 View Post
I'm wondering if it's in that missing file.
It's speculated that the file was dissapeared by someone official after the end of the war, when with the new threat was communism and Japan was to be our friends in the region, where we could build bases and such. The man who oversaw those records had said that the large file was in place until just after the war, when suddenly it vanished. The smaller form probaby was supposed to but they missed it.

But Japan was seen as a future friend and ally in the new political world, and with our aid it would be the closest bastion. If the American people discovered the Japanese had captured and imprisoned someone who stood for American pride, who was a civilian, and called a hero.... maybe the reaction would not have worked out so well with Japan.

I can accept that the plane and people were captured and died in their prison, given the time. The island the picture shows is where the infamous prison was built. Sadly I'm not surprised that those in control didn't want such a death of an American heroine be known when we were working hard to make Japan a key ally in the cold war against communism. After all, they were already dead.

I'm interested in if they dug where the plane was broken up, in the middle of one of the main runways at the island airport. The ad mentions them looking at something they're going to test to see if it could be from the plane.

I was watching the special on MSNBC when they showed the picture and talked about it. The show got set up on the dvr right then.

I saw one show which investigated this area found to have had someone living there at the time, who'd been stranded on a small island. There was a dwelling and they found a grave of a women, and evidence of a man who'd lived there but dissapeared. Likely they starved to death. I thought that was a terrible end. If this is true then maybe it wasn't as bad as the truth.
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Old 07-07-2017, 11:01 AM
 
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It's a real shame about the disappearing file. Does anyone have an update on what was a long ago find of bones that were sent in for DNA testing then went missing? I can't remember where they were found just that they had been sent in for testing which I think proved it was a man and woman. I may be wrong on that it's been so long, but in any case since the remains were lost up to date testing on them is not now possible. This story goes back many years.
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Old 07-07-2017, 11:42 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Luzette View Post
It's a real shame about the disappearing file. Does anyone have an update on what was a long ago find of bones that were sent in for DNA testing then went missing? I can't remember where they were found just that they had been sent in for testing which I think proved it was a man and woman. I may be wrong on that it's been so long, but in any case since the remains were lost up to date testing on them is not now possible. This story goes back many years.
They were found in 1940.. There was no DNA testing then. They were sent to Fiji and disappeared in the 40's. If they could be located, then DNA testing could be done. However.. Let's say that the bones are Noonans.. He has no relatives to get a sample from.

Fred was an only child and had no kids. Amelia did have a sister, Grace, who died only about 20 years ago (1998) and she had kids.. So, there's Nieces and Nephews to do a DNA comparison to.. And I'm sure if they looked hard enough, probably DNA from Grace that could be compared. Plus, they'd all share the same Mitochodrial DNA, since that' passed from females only.

I mention that just FYI.. The bones found weren't the right size to be Noonan, but I also mentioned it because TIGHAR is sending another expedition to Nikumaroro later this year and are taking cadaver dogs trying to look for additional bones. The skeleton that was found under the tree was not a complete skeleton.. Theory is that the coconut crabs probably made off with some of the smaller bones and they might be able to find some of them and with luck, get DNA.

I haven't mentioned this about the Nikumaroro theory.. There's a big-ass hole in that theory. If they were in the vicinity of Howland during the radio calls, which the Itasca signals appeared to be.. Then they didn't have enough fuel to make it to Nikumaroro. It's 350 nautical miles from Howland to Nikumaroro.. That's about 2 and a half hours of flying time. If they were.. say within 20 miles of Howland and immediately turned to fly towards Nikumaroro.. They didn't have enough fuel to get there. PLUS.. Nikumaroro was misplaced on the maps being used by 5 miles. So, the odds of them getting there get even smaller.

All that taken into consideration.. It's still, IMO, the best alternate theory to crash and sink. They were heading towards it, according to radio transmissions.. Fuel can be saved.. A nice tailwind can buy you a good bit of distance. I haven't ever seen weather conditions so far as windspeeds for that day.
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Old 07-07-2017, 11:57 AM
 
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Thanks for the info! I knew those original bones discovered was far back in time now. It's just strange how they disappeared as you would think it would not be that hard to secure them from mishap or whatever accounts for it. I guess if they were found the only way to DNA check Noonan would be to exhume one of his parents. Earhart would be easier to identify since there are descendants.

I didn't recall that the bones now lost tested the wrong size for Noonan. I guess you could argue if the testing at that time was accurate or not. Bone size shouldn't have been that hard to determine.

Is that one photo with what look to be airplane wheels sticking out of the water from Gardner/Nikumaroro? That's another photo that was overlooked for a long time. Fascinating story no matter how you look at it.
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Old 07-07-2017, 01:04 PM
 
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The locals have long said she was there and they even have postage stamps!

I guess this picture corroborate the story. https://earharttruth.wordpress.com/2...atoll-landing/
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Old 07-07-2017, 01:52 PM
 
Location: State of Transition
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Labonte18 View Post
Well, the Garner Island theory holds some water. Not saying it's right, but.. There is some evidence behind it to make it a viable theory.

There's been lots of circumstantial evidence that they landed in the water there and survived for a time. Conclusive evidence? No.. If they could ever find the skeleton that was discovered on the island for genetic testing.. That would either prove or disprove it.

I suspect that this special is another plug for TIGHAR. They have a bad tendency to put out press releases saying "Earhart mystery solved" and other sensational claims that they can't back up.
Sunday's show is not about the Tighar theory; it's mainly about the Marshal Islands/Saipan theory. Independent filmmaker, Richard Martini, who has been gathering evidence and filming interviews with former American servicemen and Marshallese witnesses, or children of eyewitnesses, for about 30 years, was asked to contribute, but declined. He says that the researcher for the History Channel material has some of the same material he has, and has been gathering documents in US and Japanese archives. Martini has talked about making a feature film out of his material, but he contradicts some of the eyewitness info that's in his own videos, oddly.
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Old 07-07-2017, 03:24 PM
 
8,189 posts, read 6,028,704 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Luzette View Post
Thanks for the info! I knew those original bones discovered was far back in time now. It's just strange how they disappeared as you would think it would not be that hard to secure them from mishap or whatever accounts for it. I guess if they were found the only way to DNA check Noonan would be to exhume one of his parents. Earhart would be easier to identify since there are descendants.

I didn't recall that the bones now lost tested the wrong size for Noonan. I guess you could argue if the testing at that time was accurate or not. Bone size shouldn't have been that hard to determine.

Is that one photo with what look to be airplane wheels sticking out of the water from Gardner/Nikumaroro? That's another photo that was overlooked for a long time. Fascinating story no matter how you look at it.
I think that them saying the skeleton was "lost" is a euphamism for they tossed it out.

The bones are.. Confusing to say the least. When they were examined by the British(?) back in the day, their conclusion was the skeleton was of a short, stocky male.

Re-examination of the measurements in the 90's concluded that they were of a tall European Female (Remember that even as Americans, we're considered of European descent) .. No bones were examined at this time, as they had already been 'lost'.. So this conclusion was based solely on the original pathologist notes. And, the original guy might not have been a pathologist by title, but he was qualified.

Of course.. All these 'conclusions' can also be considered 'opinions', because in 2015, two scientists re-re-examined and concluded that the original pathologist was correct. I can't find that paper, but it was written by Pamela Cross and Richard Wright. This is the best I can find on that paper. The Nikumaroro bones identification controversy: First-hand examination versus evaluation by proxy
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Old 07-07-2017, 06:15 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Labonte18 View Post
I think that them saying the skeleton was "lost" is a euphamism for they tossed it out.

The bones are.. Confusing to say the least. When they were examined by the British(?) back in the day, their conclusion was the skeleton was of a short, stocky male.

Re-examination of the measurements in the 90's concluded that they were of a tall European Female (Remember that even as Americans, we're considered of European descent) .. No bones were examined at this time, as they had already been 'lost'.. So this conclusion was based solely on the original pathologist notes. And, the original guy might not have been a pathologist by title, but he was qualified.

Of course.. All these 'conclusions' can also be considered 'opinions', because in 2015, two scientists re-re-examined and concluded that the original pathologist was correct. I can't find that paper, but it was written by Pamela Cross and Richard Wright. This is the best I can find on that paper. The Nikumaroro bones identification controversy: First-hand examination versus evaluation by proxy
Thanks for the link. It sounds like the favored opinion is that the first finding is correct, but this will always be in dispute like everything else related to the fate of Earhart and Noonan.
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Old 07-07-2017, 07:52 PM
 
8,189 posts, read 6,028,704 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Luzette View Post
Thanks for the link. It sounds like the favored opinion is that the first finding is correct, but this will always be in dispute like everything else related to the fate of Earhart and Noonan.

Point of view. The original narrative doesn't fit TIGHAR's narrative.. So, they choose to accept the 1998 re-examination.

Those that support the crash-and-sink or Saipan theories.. They like the 1940 and 2015 conclusions.

Everyone wants their answer to be right. Especially people like TIGHAR who need to raise money for expeditions. As I've said before, I'm no fan of theirs. But.. They do have a reasonably plausible theory. It's unlikely, but..

The only narrative that you can't poke big holes in is Crash and Sink. The only small holes you can poke are that nothing has ever been found. After an intensive search. That plane held 80 gallons of oil.. That's gonna make a nice sized slick. but.. If they 'glided' into the ocean, it may not have ruptured the tanks, no oil may have escaped for years afterwards, other than drips.
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Old 07-07-2017, 08:44 PM
 
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They found Titanic after all those years so I keep wondering if Electra is under the ocean is it too small for even modern equipment to find by sonar or other means? It's obviously a much smaller target than an ocean liner. If it broke up it's likely in very small fragments, but it's harder to understand then why no oil slick was ever found.
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