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Old 07-19-2017, 11:02 AM
 
Location: Parts Unknown, Northern California
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frostnip View Post
Dany's oldest brother Rhaegar is Jon's almost-certainly father. The mad king Aerys was Rhaegar and Dany's (and Viserys's) father. The overthrows/killings of Rhaegar and Aerys got kinda conflated back in Season 1 of the show, which is I think where the confusion comes in. (Keeping all the Targaryens straight requires a flowchart, TBF, considering the incest and repeating names.)
If memory serves, the whole rebellion against the Targaryens began because Robert was engaged to marry Lyanna Stark, but she spurned him in favor of running off with Rhaegar. Robert killed Rhaegar and his brother-in-law to be, Jamie, killed the Mad King.

Robert then had to settle for marrying Cersei, and apparently had the bad manners to constantly reference his lost love for the first several years of the marriage, turning Cersei against him and seeking comfort with her brother.
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Old 07-19-2017, 11:03 AM
 
Location: Vermont
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Originally Posted by sawyersmom View Post
She's his aunt
Yes. Not sure that's an impediment, even if they knew about it.
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Old 07-19-2017, 11:14 AM
 
Location: Sale Creek, TN
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But is Jon a Targaryen? I only ask this because in Ned's "investigation" of the Baratheon lineage, he discovered all the children had "hair of black".
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Old 07-19-2017, 11:20 AM
 
Location: interior Alaska
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Originally Posted by Creekcat View Post
But is Jon a Targaryen? I only ask this because in Ned's "investigation" of the Baratheon lineage, he discovered all the children had "hair of black".
Assuming his real parents are Lyanna Stark and Rhaegar, yep.

The Starks generally had dark eyes and hair too, and blond is recessive, so no surprise if he looked more like Lyanna in terms of coloring.
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Old 07-19-2017, 11:27 AM
 
Location: Sale Creek, TN
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Dany and her brother, blonde.
Cersei, Jaimie and their offspring, blonde.
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Old 07-19-2017, 01:05 PM
 
Location: North Beach, MD on the Chesapeake
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Creekcat View Post
But is Jon a Targaryen? I only ask this because in Ned's "investigation" of the Baratheon lineage, he discovered all the children had "hair of black".
And there was the odd Targaryen every now and then who didn't have blonde/silver hair.

God, this thread is a GOT nerd paradise.
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Old 07-19-2017, 01:19 PM
 
Location: Houston/Brenham
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Creekcat View Post
But is Jon a Targaryen? I only ask this because in Ned's "investigation" of the Baratheon lineage, he discovered all the children had "hair of black".
Jon is certainly a Targaryen offspring. They've made that crystal clear on the show. The real question may end up being, is he a Targaryen bastard or legit descendant?

If Rhaegar and Lyanna had an affair, he's nothing but a Targaryen bastard. If however, Rhaeger and Lyanna were (secretly) married, then he's a legit Targaryen, and would be next in line for the throne, before Dani.

The Targaryens allowed multiple wives, so it is possible that he married her, even though he was also married to Elia Martell at the time.

I tend to believe they were married at some point, as Jon being a T bastard doesn't really change his status (still a bastard, just from a diff family), whereas being a legit offspring puts a whole new spin on a bunch of relationships. And we all know GRRM loved to create spin!
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Old 07-19-2017, 01:41 PM
 
Location: Parts Unknown, Northern California
37,029 posts, read 17,454,269 times
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Originally Posted by astrohip View Post
Jon is certainly a Targaryen offspring. They've made that crystal clear on the show. The real question may end up being, is he a Targaryen bastard or legit descendant?

If Rhaegar and Lyanna had an affair, he's nothing but a Targaryen bastard. If however, Rhaeger and Lyanna were (secretly) married, then he's a legit Targaryen, and would be next in line for the throne, before Dani.

The Targaryens allowed multiple wives, so it is possible that he married her, even though he was also married to Elia Martell at the time.

I tend to believe they were married at some point, as Jon being a T bastard doesn't really change his status (still a bastard, just from a diff family), whereas being a legit offspring puts a whole new spin on a bunch of relationships. And we all know GRRM loved to create spin!
The situation is further complicated by the nature of the evidence for all this which is Brandon's vision. Are crowns going to be determined by a mystical claim rather than substantive evidence? Is there anyone left alive who would know the truth? Maybe the Queen of Thorns, but if she does know, she is the sort to use the information to advance her own interests, whatever they might be at the moment.
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Old 07-19-2017, 01:59 PM
 
5,092 posts, read 4,364,365 times
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Originally Posted by Grandstander View Post
The situation is further complicated by the nature of the evidence for all this which is Brandon's vision. Are crowns going to be determined by a mystical claim rather than substantive evidence? Is there anyone left alive who would know the truth? Maybe the Queen of Thorns, but if she does know, she is the sort to use the information to advance her own interests, whatever they might be at the moment.
I think that it's already been pointed out that two servants were present when Ned Stark and Lyanna met for the last time. Howland Reed, the other survivor of the sword fight with Arthur Dayne, also has to know the truth. Ned Stark goes into the Tower of Joy and emerges with a dead sister and a living baby - either Ned's a really good story teller or Howland is in on the secret.

I binge-watched the entire series during the month of July to "prep" for Season 7. In the very first episode, when Jon Snow was leaving for Castle Black, Ned Stark took him aside and told him that, when Ned visited him up at the Wall, he would tell Jon the truth about his mother. By then, Jon would have been a sworn member of the Night's Watch and ineligible to make any claim on the Iron Throne - the need for Ned to hide Jon's parentage would have ended.
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Old 07-19-2017, 02:02 PM
 
Location: Maine
15,093 posts, read 19,737,107 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by astrohip View Post
Jon is certainly a Targaryen offspring. They've made that crystal clear on the show. The real question may end up being, is he a Targaryen bastard or legit descendant?

If Rhaegar and Lyanna had an affair, he's nothing but a Targaryen bastard. If however, Rhaeger and Lyanna were (secretly) married, then he's a legit Targaryen, and would be next in line for the throne, before Dani.
It doesn't matter. If the story has made one thing clear, it is: All this talk of "legitimacy" is bunk. The only "legitimate" heir to the throne is the one with power to keep it.

I'm not sure if they are doing this in the TV show, but the books also hint very heavily that Tyrion is also a Targaryen. The heraldic symbol of the house is the three-headed dragon, so it seems that the story is going to end with Daenerys and Jon on the Throne with Tyrion as the Hand: The three-headed dragon.
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