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Old 08-28-2017, 07:46 PM
 
5,106 posts, read 6,060,240 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by astrohip View Post
Interesting idea.

One of the things I think about when I try to figure out the end, is to remind myself how GRRM writes a story. If this was "regular TV", then the good guys win. Or at least live.

But GRRM writes more realistic material, hence Ned's death, or the Red Wedding. So I think, how would GRRM do it? And I think you may be on to something. It's quite possible our two heroes do save the day, but lose their lives.

Or so many other possibilities...



...ice.
GRR Martin also goes back to history and if Jon and Dany got together I see where he could make a Henry II and Eleanor of Acquitaine parallel. Warrior king marries his Queen who was a great landowner and great personal power. But it didn't turn out too well for them and I don't know what Martin would make of that

Anthony and Cleopatra great love die in glory. But doesn't achieve anything
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Old 08-28-2017, 07:47 PM
 
Location: On the road
2,642 posts, read 1,826,196 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sundaydrive00 View Post
Water doesn't just "conveniently" freeze. It freezes because of the temperature outside. Since under normal circumstances the seawater is not frozen, its not like they could just extend the wall indefinitely into the sea. It needed to stop somewhere, and at the edge of the water is where it stops.
Sea water does freeze. What do you think Icebreakers are for?
Or at least, it used to. Visit Prudhoe Bay in the winter, or the Ross Ice shelf, nearly any time.

However, certain conditions need to be met. Perhaps there is a strong current that keeps the surface water warm enough near Eastwatch until deep into the winter.

The night king's original plan may have been to simply wait for the water to freeze, late in the Winter, and walk around the end of the Wall.
But then, along come those boneheads, looking for a wight, and when they get into trouble, and the word gets out, Dany decides to come to the rescue, and suddenly the Night king does not have to wait, because he has a Wight Dragon.

That certainly seems to be the type of plot twist this series was made for.
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Old 08-28-2017, 07:50 PM
 
5,528 posts, read 8,774,921 times
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Last night's finale--the numbers are in!

Game of Thrones finale is most-watched episode ever

Quote:
A total of 12.1 million viewers tuned in for the 9 p.m. ET airing — up 13 percent from the previous record high two weeks earlier and 36 percent higher than the season 6 finale. If you add HBO’s replays and streaming, that number climbs to 16.5 million.
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Old 08-28-2017, 08:11 PM
 
Location: Parts Unknown, Northern California
36,945 posts, read 17,425,944 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sundaydrive00 View Post
Water doesn't just "conveniently" freeze. It freezes because of the temperature outside. Since under normal circumstances the seawater is not frozen, its not like they could just extend the wall indefinitely into the sea. It needed to stop somewhere, and at the edge of the water is where it stops.
Yes, we all thank you for explaining how water freezes, we had no idea.

And of course my use of "convenient" was referencing the timing of the freezing, responding to a poster who was offering the hypothesis of that being the Night King's plan before he got hold of a dragon. And, if that hypothesis was valid, then the wall was never any use against the Dead Army because they were not going to be coming when it wasn't frozen.
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Old 08-28-2017, 08:14 PM
 
Location: Houston/Brenham
3,565 posts, read 4,193,367 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by astrohip View Post
I've often wondered the same thing. While we have spent a fair amount of time on their tactics, we actually have no idea what motivates the WW.
Have we ever seen a White Walker talk? Or even communicate with more than a look?
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Old 08-28-2017, 08:21 PM
 
11,014 posts, read 6,565,638 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LarsMac View Post
Sea water does freeze. What do you think Icebreakers are for?
Yes, I know that sea water freezes. I never said otherwise.
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Old 08-28-2017, 08:53 PM
 
Location: interior Alaska
3,975 posts, read 2,963,042 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grandstander View Post
Yes, we all thank you for explaining how water freezes, we had no idea.

And of course my use of "convenient" was referencing the timing of the freezing, responding to a poster who was offering the hypothesis of that being the Night King's plan before he got hold of a dragon. And, if that hypothesis was valid, then the wall was never any use against the Dead Army because they were not going to be coming when it wasn't frozen.
This is like saying because it's possible to knock down a door, locks are pointless. It's an obstacle. The wall is manned because a wall alone is not enough, even a giant magical wall. The wall slows enemies down enough to give a fighting force time to stop them. But it's intended to be fully manned, and better maintained, and to have rangers regularly riding out to keep down the enemy population by on the north side. Various characters on the show have been beating that gong since literally the first episode. Mance Rayder's ability to amass a huge army without the Watch knowing, and then without them being able to do much about it besides wait to be attacked once they did become aware, presaged this situation perfectly.
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Old 08-28-2017, 09:30 PM
 
Location: Parts Unknown, Northern California
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frostnip View Post
This is like saying because it's possible to knock down a door, locks are pointless. It's an obstacle. .
Not really. It would be like having a door which stays locked only until such time as the criminal arrives.

And this was specific to the army of the dead dudes....while the water is unfrozen, they aren't coming anyway. Then winter arrives, they are on the move...and that is also the time that the water freezes...according to the hypothesis offered by another poster. So specific to the dead army, and referencing someone else's suggestion for what the plan was before there was a dragon.....then, yes, absolutely, the wall was never of any use.
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Old 08-28-2017, 09:53 PM
 
11,014 posts, read 6,565,638 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grandstander View Post
Not really. It would be like having a door which stays locked only until such time as the criminal arrives.

And this was specific to the army of the dead dudes....while the water is unfrozen, they aren't coming anyway. Then winter arrives, they are on the move...and that is also the time that the water freezes...according to the hypothesis offered by another poster. So specific to the dead army, and referencing someone else's suggestion for what the plan was before there was a dragon.....then, yes, absolutely, the wall was never of any use.
The wall is 300 miles long. One weak point does not make the entire thing useless. Especially since the week point is rarely an issue, and has not been an issue in the 8,000 years since it has been built.

The white walkers have not been seen in over 8,000 years. Most believe the white walkers were either a children's story, or long extinct. The wall was never used to keep the white walkers out, as the wall was built after they were last seen. For all those years, people were not manning the wall to defend against something most believed did not exist. Instead, the wall was used to defend the realm from the wildlings. Since the wildlings are no longer a threat, if the Night King had not of shown up, the wall might have fallen into a state of disrepair.
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Old 08-28-2017, 09:54 PM
 
Location: On the road
2,642 posts, read 1,826,196 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grandstander View Post
Not really. It would be like having a door which stays locked only until such time as the criminal arrives.

And this was specific to the army of the dead dudes....while the water is unfrozen, they aren't coming anyway. Then winter arrives, they are on the move...and that is also the time that the water freezes...according to the hypothesis offered by another poster. So specific to the dead army, and referencing someone else's suggestion for what the plan was before there was a dragon.....then, yes, absolutely, the wall was never of any use.
The wall was of great use for all the years winter was at bay. And the last time it was winter, and the ice formed, the Army of the dead was not so large and organized, and the Night's Watch was prepared and knew what they had to do.
All if that was mentioned in the book.
The last winter was a very long time ago. And men forgot all about the terrors of the night, and the reason for the wall.
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