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Old 09-01-2017, 10:09 AM
 
11,037 posts, read 6,579,545 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aquietpath View Post
I thought when Bran was explaining his "3-eyed raven" abilities to Sansa, he said he could see things that happened in the past, were happening now, and haven't happened yet, but they were disjointed and he had to learn how to use the ability better.
No, he doesn't say anything about being able to see into the future.




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Old 09-01-2017, 11:17 AM
 
Location: Houston/Brenham
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BajanYankee View Post
So is it now becoming more and more obvious that Bran is (was) Bran the Builder and will also become the Night King?
I don't think that's obvious at all. And I think him being the Night King is just fan talk. There is -zero- serious info leading to that theory.
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Old 09-01-2017, 11:24 AM
 
Location: On the road
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BajanYankee View Post
So is it now becoming more and more obvious that Bran is (was) Bran the Builder and will also become the Night King?
I see nothing that makes that "obvious"
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Old 09-01-2017, 02:23 PM
 
11,037 posts, read 6,579,545 times
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Originally Posted by astrohip View Post
I don't think that's obvious at all. And I think him being the Night King is just fan talk. There is -zero- serious info leading to that theory.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LarsMac View Post
I see nothing that makes that "obvious"
Glad I'm not the only one.
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Old 09-01-2017, 02:43 PM
 
Location: interior Alaska
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He can see the past and apparently influence it to some extent with his warging, but he can't physically time travel, so I don't see how he could physically be in two places at the same time (as both the Night King and as himself).
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Old 09-01-2017, 04:48 PM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
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Quote:
Originally Posted by astrohip View Post
I don't think that's obvious at all. And I think him being the Night King is just fan talk. There is -zero- serious info leading to that theory.
There are posters on the ASOIAF forum who lay out the case much better than I ever could based on textual evidence and nuggets dropped here and there on the show. As complicated as it sounds, it does make sense to me. After all, R + L = J was just a theory not that long ago.

In the first book, Bran is said to know Winterfell better than anyone. While one could say that that's simply because he climbs all the time, Bran is only 7 years old at that point, so it seems a bit odd that a 7-year old would know the castle better than Ned, Old Nan, the maesters, etc. Another explanation is that Bran the Builder was actually Bran since Bran the Builder is described as a boy at some point in the books and may even be a cripple based upon images from HBO's History and Lores. Not conclusive evidence, but it makes me think the theory may have some validity.

Without digging into the text the way many fans do (I really can't since I haven't finished all of the books), it seems to me that Bran has to have some significance beyond confirming a few events that happened in the past (e.g., Jon being a Targaryen). He has this strange connection to the Night King (and as some have pointed out, they dress similarly) and I think there's a reason for that. I could see a situation on GOT where Bran turns out to be like William/The Man In Black on Westworld and he's been responsible for this thing the whole entire time.

We know Bran has been warned of the dangers of warging too long before. The theory is that Bran warged back in time to tell Aerys Targaryen to "burn them all" but then ended up driving him to become the Mad King (remember how Ned and Theon hear whispers from Bran?). Since that didn't work, Bran goes back in time to become Bran the Builder and erects the Wall. After that didn't work, he goes back in time to become one of the First Men, who then becomes the Night King.

Again, there are people who explain this 100 times better than me, but after spending some time looking at the textual evidence and certain images from the show, it strikes me as a very compelling theory.

Last edited by BajanYankee; 09-01-2017 at 04:56 PM..
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Old 09-01-2017, 04:54 PM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
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Originally Posted by Frostnip View Post
He can see the past and apparently influence it to some extent with his warging, but he can't physically time travel, so I don't see how he could physically be in two places at the same time (as both the Night King and as himself).
Well, that's what we think now. But some posters on the ASOIAF forum point out that Bran may have stronger warging powers than Jojen and the original Three Eyed Raven. Some believe that's what the Three Eyed Raven meant when he told Bran, "You will never walk again, but you will fly." Some believe it means Bran will be able to fly back in time.

"The ink is dry" as the Three Eyed Raven says. That doesn't mean that Bran can't go back in time and warg into others the way he did with Willis/Hodor. I guess the idea is that Bran keeps trying to change the past by warging but the outcome remains the same because "the ink is dry."

You raise a good point about how Bran can physically be in two places at the same time. I don't know how to answer that. I also don't know how to explain how Bran from the present day can warg into a young Hodor way back in time and completely change the course of his life.
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Old 09-01-2017, 05:06 PM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
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Another reason I think Bran will be the NK is because it would be such a hell of a twist. I can't imagine GRRM working on a story for two decades only for it to end with a morally simplistic battle between the dead/living and good/bad where Jon gets to defeat the bad guys and there are some tragic deaths along the way. That seems to be a little too "easy" a story to tell for GRRM imo.

I believe GRRM likens himself to Tyrion above all other characters and we know Tyrion has a soft spot "for bastards and broken things." We've already seen a bastard become the central character in Game of Thrones. I wouldn't be surprised if the story turns out be a story of bastards and broken things with a heightened emphasis being placed on Bran in Season 8.

It's almost like we've been set up to believe that a Song of Ice (Stark) and Fire (Targaryen) is about Jon and Dany. What if ASOIAF is really a song of Ice (Bran) and Fire (Jon Snow)?
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Old 09-01-2017, 05:48 PM
 
Location: Parts Unknown, Northern California
36,969 posts, read 17,444,005 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BajanYankee View Post
Another reason I think Bran will be the NK is because it would be such a hell of a twist.
So would having Gilly wind up on the Iron Throne, but I don't think that indicates that they are going that way. Your argument appears to be "Since I think it would be cool, then that must be what they are planning." I suspect others will not be persuaded by this approach.
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Old 09-01-2017, 05:54 PM
 
Location: interior Alaska
3,980 posts, read 2,968,254 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BajanYankee View Post
I could see a situation on GOT where Bran turns out to be like William/The Man In Black on Westworld and he's been responsible for this thing the whole entire time.
That only worked on Westworld because the story was being told asynchronously, though. GoT is definitely linear.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BajanYankee View Post
Well, that's what we think now. But some posters on the ASOIAF forum point out that Bran may have stronger warging powers than Jojen and the original Three Eyed Raven. Some believe that's what the Three Eyed Raven meant when he told Bran, "You will never walk again, but you will fly." Some believe it means Bran will be able to fly back in time.

"The ink is dry" as the Three Eyed Raven says. That doesn't mean that Bran can't go back in time and warg into others the way he did with Willis/Hodor. I guess the idea is that Bran keeps trying to change the past by warging but the outcome remains the same because "the ink is dry."

You raise a good point about how Bran can physically be in two places at the same time. I don't know how to answer that. I also don't know how to explain how Bran from the present day can warg into a young Hodor way back in time and completely change the course of his life.
I don't think there's any reason to treat physical time travel in GoT as a realistic possibility - with only one season left, that'd be a huge mechanic to throw in out of the blue, and there's been no hint of it to date. I don't see any way Bran the Builder and/or the Night King and present day Bran Stark can physically be the same character. In any case, we already saw the Night King pre-transformation, in that flashback with the Children of the Forest, and he wasn't our Bran Stark.

Now, it could potentially follow the show's internal magic rules well enough for a future Bran to have warged into a past Night King. He wouldn't be able to keep that up for any length of time, let alone millennia, without his own body dying. In the books a warg character does attempt to escape death by warging into another body, so I suppose it's not out of the question that Bran could do so. My question would be, what plot or character purpose would it serve to make Bran the big bad guy? Why would Bran want to turn Westeros into zombieland? It'd be a plot twist just for the twist's sake. And by that same reasoning Bran could be any person or animal in Westeros, past or present, so why the Night King?

That the show has done so little to establish warging as a dynamic would be a counterpoint to this theory, too. With Jon Snow's death and resurrection the show had a perfect opportunity to establish that a consciousness can achieve a form of immortality via warging, which they passed up entirely, and they've left out most of the other warging bits from the books. If it was going to turn out to be the fulcrum on which the overarching story turned, you'd expect at least a tiny bit of foreshadowing, or at least an introduction of the concept.
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