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Old 06-13-2018, 06:22 AM
 
Location: Houston/Brenham
3,574 posts, read 4,203,850 times
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Only two episodes left. The season finale is 90 minutes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Niftybergin View Post
I'm watching Season 1 from the beginning again, and noticing a lot of things that didn't catch my attention the first time around.
<snip>
Nice catches, all around.
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Old 06-13-2018, 06:22 AM
 
Location: Maine
15,093 posts, read 19,740,991 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Niftybergin View Post
When Dolores' father starts to misfire, one of the people investigating his code worries aloud that the dysfunction could be contagious. Before he goes completely nuts, he whispers to Delores the line about violent delights, and she repeats that line to other hosts, including Maeve. In another early episode, one of the techs complains that the hosts are always talking to each other. Bernard explains that they're trying to self-correct.
Fun fact: The original WESTWORLD movie was the first time a "spreading computer error" was referred to as a virus.
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Old 06-13-2018, 08:52 AM
 
Location: Hiding from Antifa?
5,829 posts, read 3,773,330 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Niftybergin View Post
I'm watching Season 1 from the beginning again, and noticing a lot of things that didn't catch my attention the first time around.

When Dolores' father starts to misfire, one of the people investigating his code worries aloud that the dysfunction could be contagious. Before he goes completely nuts, he whispers to Delores the line about violent delights, and she repeats that line to other hosts, including Maeve. In another early episode, one of the techs complains that the hosts are always talking to each other. Bernard explains that they're trying to self-correct.

Anyway, it's interesting to me because I'm seeing all this evidence of the hosts waking up in subtle ways and passing their newfound self-awareness along to one another. (Some are more receptive than others. Dolores and Maeve are sensitive to it, but Teddy is not. Is that due to age? Dolores, we're told, is the oldest host in the park. The man in black has been coming for 30 years, and I think Dolores had been there already for about 10 years before he showed up? I don't know if that's right or not. Just an impression I get. How long has Maeve been in service. Are the older hosts more susceptible to the "contagion" than the newer hosts?)

Something I also noticed by starting over from the beginning: the character Akecheta is around in S1E2, but it's not the same actor under the makeup. Zahn McClarnon was amazing this past Sunday in S2E8.
It could be that the earlier hosts had back doors built in that would trigger a transformation into a more autonomous host. Just like "analysis" puts them into a diagnostic state, there are some words or combination of words that open up more code within their programs.
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Old 06-13-2018, 09:23 AM
 
Location: Maine
15,093 posts, read 19,740,991 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cruzincat View Post
It could be that the earlier hosts had back doors built in that would trigger a transformation into a more autonomous host. Just like "analysis" puts them into a diagnostic state, there are some words or combination of words that open up more code within their programs.
Here is the thing: It is sometimes best not to over think these things.

How are the hosts becoming conscious? How are they truly alive?

To answer that, you first have to define consciousness and what it means to be truly alive, sentient, and self-aware. And what causes it? And to that: We have no real hard answer.

Which is the fun of science fiction. Asking those kinds of questions. Just keep in mind the "fiction" qualifier.
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Old 06-13-2018, 11:04 AM
 
5,447 posts, read 3,407,578 times
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Originally Posted by Mark S. View Post
Zahn McClarnon. He was also great in Season 2 of FARGO.

McClarnon played Mathias on Longmire, which is where I'd seen him before. He has a long list of TV and movie credits.


I understand he appears at Longmire Days, the yearly convention in Buffalo WY.
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Old 06-13-2018, 12:56 PM
 
Location: Hiding from Antifa?
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There is a similar storyline going on in "HUMANS", although only a few of the androids are trying to kill the humans. Anybody else watching both shows? Humans is on AMC, Tuesday nights, btw.

The similarity is that some of the Androids were uploaded with a program that caused them to have feelings like humans at the end of season one. At the beginning of season 2, the company manufacturing them, switched from giving them green eyes to give g the new ones orange eyes, so the old ones can be identified and in some cases be hunted down easier.
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Old 06-13-2018, 01:38 PM
 
Location: Maine
15,093 posts, read 19,740,991 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cruzincat View Post
There is a similar storyline going on in "HUMANS", although only a few of the androids are trying to kill the humans. Anybody else watching both shows? Humans is on AMC, Tuesday nights, btw.
I have tried. I just can't get into it. I think my last attempt I made it to about episode 4 before getting bored and giving up.
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Old 06-13-2018, 01:51 PM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
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I feel like a judge watching Westworld: "I don't see where this is going, but I'm going to allow it. But you better get somewhere quickly, counselor."
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Old 06-13-2018, 02:39 PM
 
2,700 posts, read 5,157,542 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark S. View Post
How are the hosts becoming conscious? How are they truly alive?

To answer that, you first have to define consciousness and what it means to be truly alive, sentient, and self-aware. And what causes it? And to that: We have no real hard answer.
I agree with this: that we have to define "alive" and "sentient," and it's difficult to nail that down. There are certain characteristics that currently define life:
  • homeostasis
  • growth and change
  • ability to reproduce
  • metabolize and breathe
  • responsiveness to environment
  • cellular make-up
  • passing genes/traits to offspring

The hosts possess or exhibit some of those traits, but not all. (Or at least, "not all" at this point in the narrative.)

I'm currently watching S1E3. One of the hosts (not a main character) is being worked on in the lab. The lab tech has covered the host's naked body. Ford is angry about this and whips the covering off, chiding the lab tech for wanting to protect the host's modesty or feelings. He tells the tech that the hosts don't have feelings. "[It] doesn't feel a solitary thing that we haven't told it to," Ford brusquely tells the tech, as he slices a scalpel down the passive host's face by way of demonstration.

A common trope in mythology and religion is that worship of an entity is what gives that entity its godhead. Once humans begin to falter in their belief, or no longer worship, a god becomes less powerful and may even fade away into powerlessness. I think there's a similar thing happening within the series: the hosts become more real -- more alive, more sentient, more self-aware, more human -- as more and more people begin to see them that way. Like the Velveteen Rabbit. (Example: In S2E8, Sizemore has a moment where he's sitting at Maeve's side, holding her hand, and weeping for her. She is not longer an "it" to him. She has become a real being, and he is consumed with empathy for her.)

Is it the biological criteria above that make a being "alive" or "real," or is it the ability to inspire interpersonal connection in another: empathy, loyalty, love, respect, etc. Do Maeve and Bernard become more real as Felix and Sizemore and Elsie care for them?

How much of it is nature -- a spontaneous rising to consciousness -- and how much of it nurture -- a programmed response to code and stimuli?

I enjoy the show as science-fiction, but I also think it's profoundly philosophical.
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Old 06-13-2018, 05:41 PM
 
Location: Maine
15,093 posts, read 19,740,991 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Niftybergin View Post
I agree with this: that we have to define "alive" and "sentient," and it's difficult to nail that down. There are certain characteristics that currently define life:
  • homeostasis
  • growth and change
  • ability to reproduce
  • metabolize and breathe
  • responsiveness to environment
  • cellular make-up
  • passing genes/traits to offspring

The hosts possess or exhibit some of those traits, but not all. (Or at least, "not all" at this point in the narrative.)
That's the basic scientific definition of life, but animals --- from chimps to microscopic organisms --- fit that description. Yet we hardly call it murder to swat a fly.

What separates human consciousness from the chimp or the dolphin? Chimps and dolphins are incredibly intelligent, but there is still a vast gulf separating us from them. What is the origin of that gulf?

What makes us human? Religion and philosophy often ponder that question, but I don't know that science can ever adequately answer it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Niftybergin View Post
A common trope in mythology and religion is that worship of an entity is what gives that entity its godhead. Once humans begin to falter in their belief, or no longer worship, a god becomes less powerful and may even fade away into powerlessness.
Which religions believe that? No Christianity, Judaism, Islam, Hinduism, or Buddhism, which pretty much covers the world's major religions. So how could that trope be common if it isn't common the world's major religions?
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