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Old 06-25-2018, 06:09 AM
 
Location: Maine
15,072 posts, read 19,713,491 times
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The best summary I have read about what is wrong with this show:

"So many of the pay-offs here felt rushed or even arbitrary solely thanks to the show’s determination to reveal its stories rather than just show them."

They're trying too hard to be smart and clever. Don't. Just tell the damned story.
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Old 06-25-2018, 07:39 AM
 
Location: Richardson, TX
10,119 posts, read 16,713,055 times
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One of the show’s creators said: “I’ve always had a great faith in the capacity of an audience to not only be able to track complicated non-linear storytelling but often to embrace it and enjoy it. Those are the people we’re making this show for.“

Westworld showrunner explains those finale twists | EW.com

I loved the whole season. I’m still digesting the finale.
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Old 06-25-2018, 07:48 AM
 
Location: Lakewood NJ/Murrells Inlet SC/ N. Naples FL/Swainton NJ
3,037 posts, read 4,776,011 times
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As I was trying to get to sleep after watching E10 a realization popped in my head. In several scenes in several episodes when analyzing Dolorous (and maybe other hosts) she is asked "Where are you?" Her response is "I am in a dream."

Often I will wake up while dreaming and remember a lot of the dream. But when I play it back parts seem real and a lot is very strange and makes no sense in reality. That is my realization about this series. It is like a vivid dream where most of it makes no logical sense.........
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Old 06-25-2018, 07:53 AM
 
5,410 posts, read 3,382,449 times
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From the same review:

"That Westworld is, at heart, pretty simple is something that fans of the series might take issue with. If you find some greater depth here, more power to you; for myself, when you boil it down, this is all straightforward, at times comically shallow, theorizing."

If you look past the endless "You still don't understand what this is all about" dialogue -- I would have shot Dolores long before this ep just to get her to SHUT UP -- there really isn't any there there.
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Old 06-25-2018, 09:07 AM
 
Location: Hiding from Antifa?
5,822 posts, read 3,765,015 times
Reputation: 4977
Quote:
Originally Posted by Debsi View Post
One of the show’s creators said: “I’ve always had a great faith in the capacity of an audience to not only be able to track complicated non-linear storytelling but often to embrace it and enjoy it. Those are the people we’re making this show for.“

Westworld showrunner explains those finale twists | EW.com

I loved the whole season. I’m still digesting the finale.
Quote:
I’ve always had a great faith in the capacity of an audience to not only be able to track complicated non-linear storytelling but often to embrace it and enjoy it. Those are the people we’re making this show for.
Well, this shows they didn't make it for a lot of people, including me. I watch TV for entertainment values, not to be challenged to understand what is going on in someone's mind, when they are obviously too far gone mentally.
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Old 06-25-2018, 09:59 AM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
27,611 posts, read 24,787,463 times
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I thought the finale was weak.

I thought they should have done more to follow up on William's story from last week. We get a William-focused Episode 9 and his only purpose in Episode 10 is to ride with Dolores to The Valley Beyond for what reason exactly??? Why did she need William to be there? And what was the purpose of all that character development the previous episode if all William does is get stranded in the desert again? And what was the point of Ford's game if it turns out that the Man in Black has been a robot all this time?

I think the writers of this show get off on creating twists and turns for the sake of creating twists and turns. It was cool when we learned Bernard was actually a robot in Season 1, but they've gone back to the well one too many times with that trope. The show gets props for its visuals and unconventional storytelling method, but I fear the writing on this show has lost its way.
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Old 06-25-2018, 12:29 PM
 
Location: Houston/Brenham
3,565 posts, read 4,193,367 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BajanYankee View Post
I thought the finale was weak.

And what was the point of Ford's game if it turns out that the Man in Black has been a robot all this time?
I don't think the MiB has been a robot all this time. I don't think he was a robot at any time during this season, or up until "now". I think when we saw him at the beach on the end (remember they found a "high value" guest), he was still the real MiB.

I think the scene after the credits, with him and his daughter (in the "Fidelity Room"), was a one-off. Not part of the linear story we're seeing, which is exactly why it was set *after* the credits. It's not a part of the story we just watched. Is it set in the future? Who knows. I have NFI. That's what S3 will be for, to learn more.

And that's why I thought the finale was anything BUT weak.
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Old 06-25-2018, 12:56 PM
 
Location: Maine
15,072 posts, read 19,713,491 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BajanYankee View Post
I thought the finale was weak.

I thought they should have done more to follow up on William's story from last week. We get a William-focused Episode 9 and his only purpose in Episode 10 is to ride with Dolores to The Valley Beyond for what reason exactly??? Why did she need William to be there? And what was the purpose of all that character development the previous episode if all William does is get stranded in the desert again? And what was the point of Ford's game if it turns out that the Man in Black has been a robot all this time?
I need to watch it again, but that was not the conclusion I reached.

I understood the last scene to mean: William is human (albeit perhaps in host "shell"), and the last scene took place years, perhaps even decades or centuries, in the future. The host conquest succeeded. They now rule the Earth and are "testing" William over and over and over and over again to determine if he is truly "alive."

But again, I need to watch it again.


Quote:
Originally Posted by BajanYankee View Post
I think the writers of this show get off on creating twists and turns for the sake of creating twists and turns. It was cool when we learned Bernard was actually a robot in Season 1, but they've gone back to the well one too many times with that trope. The show gets props for its visuals and unconventional storytelling method, but I fear the writing on this show has lost its way.
Agreed. There is a big difference between being intriguing and obfuscating. Season 1 was intriguing. Season 2 was obfuscating.

intriguing: arousing one's curiosity or interest; fascinating.

obfuscating: render obscure, unclear, or unintelligible; bewildering.
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Old 06-25-2018, 01:06 PM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
27,611 posts, read 24,787,463 times
Reputation: 11185
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark S. View Post
I need to watch it again, but that was not the conclusion I reached.

I understood the last scene to mean: William is human (albeit perhaps in host "shell"), and the last scene took place years, perhaps even decades or centuries, in the future. The host conquest succeeded. They now rule the Earth and are "testing" William over and over and over and over again to determine if he is truly "alive."

But again, I need to watch it again.
Has it been firmly established that William has been a human this entire time? I feel like that's an open question. The only confirmed humans are, to my knowledge:

Theresa (dead)
Ford (dead)
Arnold (dead)
Charlotte (now dead)
Sizemore (dead, probably?)
Tech guys

Having the Man in Black constantly pick at his arm the last two episodes is the equivalent of the spinning top at the end of Inception IMO. It's possible he had gone mad and was ripping up his arm to see if he was a host, but it's also possible he was really a host. The question of whether the MiB is a host seems to be still very much up in the air to me.
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Old 06-25-2018, 01:08 PM
 
Location: Richardson, TX
10,119 posts, read 16,713,055 times
Reputation: 24590
Quote:
Originally Posted by astrohip View Post
I don't think the MiB has been a robot all this time. I don't think he was a robot at any time during this season, or up until "now". I think when we saw him at the beach on the end (remember they found a "high value" guest), he was still the real MiB.

I think the scene after the credits, with him and his daughter (in the "Fidelity Room"), was a one-off. Not part of the linear story we're seeing, which is exactly why it was set *after* the credits. It's not a part of the story we just watched. Is it set in the future? Who knows. I have NFI. That's what S3 will be for, to learn more.

And that's why I thought the finale was anything BUT weak.
I completely agree. That scene is in the future - the Forge is in some state of decay. No idea how far in the future or who put him there.

Dolores ensuring MIB enjoys some form of eternal hell on Earth perhaps? They laid the hell imagery on pretty thick in the James Delos bot scenes in episode 4.
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