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Old 06-25-2018, 01:44 PM
 
Location: Maine
15,092 posts, read 19,732,985 times
Reputation: 17201

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Quote:
Originally Posted by BajanYankee View Post
Has it been firmly established that William has been a human this entire time? I feel like that's an open question. The only confirmed humans are, to my knowledge:

Theresa (dead)
Ford (dead)
Arnold (dead)
Charlotte (now dead)
Sizemore (dead, probably?)
Tech guys

Having the Man in Black constantly pick at his arm the last two episodes is the equivalent of the spinning top at the end of Inception IMO. It's possible he had gone mad and was ripping up his arm to see if he was a host, but it's also possible he was really a host. The question of whether the MiB is a host seems to be still very much up in the air to me.
But the larger questions the show is asking (albeit somewhat obtusely at times) is: What makes us human? What does it REALLY mean to be alive? How are humans alive where hosts are not --- and vice versa?

William is human. But what does that mean? If he is still the same mind in a host body (which may or may not be the case), is he still human? Why or why not?

I appreciate all that. Love it, in fact. My problem is that the writers are purposefully trying to hide stuff and be clever when they should just tell the friggin' story. I love it when writers give us 2 + 2 and let us work out the answer. I event love it when they give us 2 + X = 4 and let us work out the question. What WESTWORLD seems to be attempted is 2 + X = Y, which has an infinite number of answers. That isn't a story. That is philosophy.
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Old 06-25-2018, 01:57 PM
 
Location: Maine
15,092 posts, read 19,732,985 times
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And by the way, there will be a Season 3. That isn't even in question really, barring an asteroid wiping out all life on Earth, an armageddon plague, or North Korea buying HBO.

https://news.avclub.com/heres-what-w...eas-1827108673

Here's what Westworld's showrunners are saying about season 3
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Old 06-25-2018, 02:14 PM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
27,616 posts, read 24,814,812 times
Reputation: 11185
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark S. View Post
But the larger questions the show is asking (albeit somewhat obtusely at times) is: What makes us human? What does it REALLY mean to be alive? How are humans alive where hosts are not --- and vice versa?

William is human. But what does that mean? If he is still the same mind in a host body (which may or may not be the case), is he still human? Why or why not?
Is it just me or are these "Have you ever questioned the nature of your reality" questions reminiscent of the "deep" philosophical questions posed by The Walking Dead? Hardcore TWD fans swore for seasons that the show was aiming to answer some heavy questions about the meaning of life ("It shows what the nature of the human condition becomes when...") before finally having to admit that the show writers had absolutely no idea where they were taking things. I have a similar feeling about this show. Just because we're confused doesn't mean there's much purpose to the confusion, as if the show writers are masterminds who will one day pull all of these disparate threads together and have us admonishing ourselves for ever questioning their sagacity. That could happen, but if I'm a betting man, I'd wager that Westworld ends up more like Lost with unresolved plotlines and aimless writing.
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Old 06-25-2018, 02:35 PM
 
193 posts, read 76,742 times
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This show jumped the shark for me. Its too clever by half-- reminds me of late nights in a study group for Existentialism 101 in college when we thought pondering these questions was somehow brilliant.

I won't be tuning in for season 3.
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Old 06-25-2018, 07:40 PM
 
Location: Houston/Brenham
3,574 posts, read 4,202,048 times
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This thread is so full of hate-watching and schadenfreude. I can't recall another TV thread where so many people dislike it so much, and yet return over and over to post about it. Or have dire predictions for the future (like Lost?).

If I may, I think some of you are over-thinking it. Enjoy it or don't. Don't worry about where it's going, or whether it will ever answer any of life's big questions. If it's not for you, and I can see where this type of show would turn some people off (my wife quit), then stop watching. But there are millions of us watching, and we find it fascinating. It's not perfect, but it is engrossing to watch. And that's entertainment!

Having said that, I totally understand coming to a thread to post about likes & dislikes. I post what I don't like about a show all the time. But I don't harp on it, to the exclusion of all the positive threads.
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Old 06-25-2018, 08:42 PM
 
Location: Houston/Brenham
3,574 posts, read 4,202,048 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by astrohip View Post
I think the scene after the credits, with him and his daughter (in the "Fidelity Room"), was a one-off. Not part of the linear story we're seeing, which is exactly why it was set *after* the credits. It's not a part of the story we just watched. Is it set in the future? Who knows. I have NFI. That's what S3 will be for, to learn more.
Lisa Joy, the co-showrunner (and wife of Jonathan Nolan, the other showrunner) confirmed in an interview that the final scene is set way in the future. So far in the future that everyone from "Now Westworld" is dead. Both Emily and the MiB are images of their real selves. She didn't use the word "host", because a host refers to a creature like Dolores, someone who is pure cognition, someone who is made up of nothing and has a fabricated body as well.
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Old 06-25-2018, 09:19 PM
 
Location: Hiding from Antifa?
5,824 posts, read 3,771,984 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by astrohip View Post
Lisa Joy, the co-showrunner (and wife of Jonathan Nolan, the other showrunner) confirmed in an interview that the final scene is set way in the future. So far in the future that everyone from "Now Westworld" is dead. Both Emily and the MiB are images of their real selves. She didn't use the word "host", because a host refers to a creature like Dolores, someone who is pure cognition, someone who is made up of nothing and has a fabricated body as well.
This is the essential reason I probably won't watch season 3. I stuck it out through season 2 without having "to do homework" in order to understand what is going on. And there is a lot I still don't understand. That leaves me with the choice to start doing homework or just let it go. meh.
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Old 06-25-2018, 09:56 PM
 
7,655 posts, read 5,411,885 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tmozer View Post
S2E10: I was hoping to finally be wowed. Very disappointed.
Same here

But, if you didn't watch the credits, go back and see. Even more confusing clip.
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Old 06-26-2018, 05:58 AM
 
Location: Maine
15,092 posts, read 19,732,985 times
Reputation: 17201
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cruzincat View Post
I stuck it out through season 2 without having "to do homework" in order to understand what is going on. And there is a lot I still don't understand. That leaves me with the choice to start doing homework or just let it go. meh.
An old adage: If you have to explain a joke, then it isn't funny.

Same holds true of stories. If you have to explain what you meant, then you didn't tell your story very well. Season 2 was not a well told story. If we have to do homework and watch special features and read interviews with the writers to understand what we just saw, then they did not show it well.

Anyway, I hope Chuck is right for Season 3.

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Old 06-26-2018, 10:13 AM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
27,616 posts, read 24,814,812 times
Reputation: 11185
Quote:
Originally Posted by desperatedogadvice View Post
This show jumped the shark for me. Its too clever by half-- reminds me of late nights in a study group for Existentialism 101 in college when we thought pondering these questions was somehow brilliant.
They are basically playing a game of cat and mouse with Redditors at this point. The writers are more concerned about wrongfooting superfans than they are telling a good story. Or maybe they think the two are one in the same.

Westworld reminds me of the Dee-Jay who simply refuses to play any popular music and spends hours looking for the most obscure songs to demonstrate his eclectic musical taste. It doesn't matter whether his selections ruin the flow and energy of the party--all that matters is the smug sense of satisfaction he feels when someone says "Wow, I've never heard this before. You really dug deep in the crates for that one!" Obviously, there's nothing wrong with working in new music, but when the focus becomes almost purely about showing off your knowledge rather than creating a mood, you've gone off track. Westworld is similar in that the writers seem to be pre-occupied with "easter eggs" and "major reveals" rather than plot development.
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