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Old 10-02-2011, 10:14 PM
 
Location: Right here; Right now
8,602 posts, read 4,405,348 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mizela View Post
Hi actonbell:

I respect your reply, just as I respect your right to believe as you choose.

Yes, my question was for Mark because I detected a bit of arrogance in his remark . . . the problem I have with any religionist is when he/she insinuates that being religious somehow makes one person better than another who is not. And because I am not religious, it's impossible for me to understand how someone could put 'god' first in their life, when 'god' is not a tangible, proven-to-have-ever-existed entity. You have to understand that to people who are not religious, that's the same as saying that you put a fictional character from a book "first" in your life above yourself, your family, everything.

As a non-religious person, I have never once tried to 'convert' any believers, so my idea of respect is that everyone respect each other and take into account that we all have the right to think/believe as we each choose.

And I ask you to please consider that we "heathens" can have the same basic priorities, that we can appreciate the most wondrous things in life, and can cherish all the great and sweet memories of a pleasant past that is now quite far removed from this current-day lost world that is sadly spiraling out of control.

Now that said . . .

I enjoyed reading your memories of Tyler. What years are you most specifically referring to?

I went to school there from the mid-60s through around 1973, and I have some great and vivid memories of Tyler. I've been back only a handful of times since, and it's changed in many ways, but oddly, in some ways Tyler seems almost left behind, like parts of the city haven't kept up with the times (which can be a good thing). Do you know what I mean by that impression of Tyler?

No, you can't go back home in that sense . . . whenever I've returned to Tyler, I expect it to feel the same as it did back then . . . and it does not . . . and that makes me sad.

I was thinking about Sandy Duncan just not long ago, wondering what happened to her.

I remember seeing Loretta Lynn at the East Texas Fair and that was a big thrill for me back then. East Texas played prominently in the beginning of Elvis' career. I saw him many times over the years.

Oh the Tyler roses! Such a beautiful fragrance! And the azalea trails and all those beautiful homes along the trail.

Speaking of flowers, do you remember Judge the Florist? What became of that business? I LOVED going in that shop! I remember the smell of eucalyptus ~
Hi mizela,

The world that is spiraling out of control, is as it should be and is expected. In other words I'm not surprised in the least. Being in church from toddler to young adult and being read from the Bible of the days to come and then living long enough to watch it happen, only verifies the Word of God.

I did not view Marks reply as arrogant. However, I have seen arrogance both inside and outside of the church. With that said, anything more on this topic should be taken up in the R & P forum.

Years specific for me are 60's through to the 80's. I can not be specific in some of the areas of schools I attended and family business's as I wish to remain anonymous on C-D. I will put it to you this way, in our family on my mother's side, when Tyler had dirt roads our family was there. (1800's)

My father came from Jamestown N.D. Now if you want to experience a place lost in the past, there's the place to go.

The best way I know and remember Tyler socially I will describe the same as the author of the book that was burned by city officials (so sorry I can not share the book) "the haves and the have nots". I knew of the story the author told, but I left in the late 80's and I never learned how it ended. I'm pleased to know that Sheriff Smith was not the bad guy, but he was actually set up to take a fall.

In the late 80's just before we left I remember banks being built on every corner and after that the town just seemed to boom.

I haven't experienced Tyler socially since then, so if it is true that not much has changed in that area, then Tyler is still trying to be something it is not. In my humble opinion, Tyler should never try to be in the running, but should continue to offer its residence the same feel of small town goodness. It can not though, because folks from all walks of life will make there way there and the place will change with the newer views. Social evolution is taking place all across the world and there is no place one can go and hide from it. Not even North Dakota. Some places it will take longer, but eventually, evolution will catch up. Eventually the OP will find her match, even in a place like Tyler---Baptist central.

I don't remember Judge the Florist shop. Where was it located?
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Old 10-03-2011, 02:01 AM
 
103 posts, read 83,249 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by actonbell View Post
Hi mizela,


The best way I know and remember Tyler socially I will describe the same as the author of the book that was burned by city officials (so sorry I can not share the book) "the haves and the have nots". I knew of the story the author told, but I left in the late 80's and I never learned how it ended. I'm pleased to know that Sheriff Smith was not the bad guy, but he was actually set up to take a fall.

In the late 80's just before we left I remember banks being built on every corner and after that the town just seemed to boom.

I haven't experienced Tyler socially since then, so if it is true that not much has changed in that area, then Tyler is still trying to be something it is not. In my humble opinion, Tyler should never try to be in the running, but should continue to offer its residence the same feel of small town goodness. It can not though, because folks from all walks of life will make there way there and the place will change with the newer views. Social evolution is taking place all across the world and there is no place one can go and hide from it. Not even North Dakota. Some places it will take longer, but eventually, evolution will catch up. Eventually the OP will find her match, even in a place like Tyler---Baptist central.

I don't remember Judge the Florist shop. Where was it located?
Don't know the book you reference or anything about the Sheriff - might look it up and see what info there is available. When we lived there, Tyler certainly had its share of the "haves" . . . lots of old family money from oil and other business ventures. I remember there was that divide for sure.

I think Tyler has changed more than anything in the southern part of the city along Broadway - all the typical retail chains, so crowded, so much new housing and the traffic is really bad there now. Like any place. Other parts of the city, from what I saw, haven't changed much.

The OP's dating criteria might be a tad difficult for many areas around Texas, but with the diversity, someone is out there - just may be more difficult to find.

Judge the Florist was right by Bergfeld Park, just off Broadway.
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Old 10-03-2011, 11:27 AM
 
Location: Right here; Right now
8,602 posts, read 4,405,348 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mizela View Post
Don't know the book you reference or anything about the Sheriff - might look it up and see what info there is available. When we lived there, Tyler certainly had its share of the "haves" . . . lots of old family money from oil and other business ventures. I remember there was that divide for sure.

I think Tyler has changed more than anything in the southern part of the city along Broadway - all the typical retail chains, so crowded, so much new housing and the traffic is really bad there now. Like any place. Other parts of the city, from what I saw, haven't changed much.

The OP's dating criteria might be a tad difficult for many areas around Texas, but with the diversity, someone is out there - just may be more difficult to find.

Judge the Florist was right by Bergfeld Park, just off Broadway.
See, I thought so. I was thinking of the shops in the Bergfeld park, but the only thing I came up with was the bakery, for wedding cakes and I can't remember the name of the bakery.

I first mentioned the book I have in a previous post. I found it on wikileaks. I snagged if off of their site long before they did their dump thing. The reporter who wrote it was sued. The officials burned it and the book was never to be reprinted again. The story the reporter was covering was on that was going on during the 80's. I knew about it, but not from the newspapers. Since I married and left Tyler, I never knew how it all turned out, now I know and it's all good.

Shopping: We use to shop at the Tyler places around the Tyler square. Then the Mall moved in and that killed the square shops.

Friday nights and Saturday nights the teens would drive their cars around the square for hours. They would sit on their cars, drink the beer they ran to coffee city to get and just visit, laugh, play music loud. It was a block party. Then the cops come in and break it all up and so now, today, when a person is driving on the streets around the square and you see the signs that say, uh...going around twice may get you ticketed....or something like that. Now that the person knows the past teen, bad so bad teen history, the person knows why the over kill is there. ha! Same goes for Lake Tyler which also use to be a teen hot spot, if one had a car, to hang out and party.

So in talking about Tyler and its changes from the say 60's & 70's to the year of 2000. Heck the 90's even, there have been lots of changes.

You know the boom of Tyler is a shock because we always thought that by the city council not letting all of smith county go wet, they were keeping a real money making industry out, the beer industry. Which would also, provide jobs.

However, then I see that the Tyler's growth (those banks on every corner) is because council targeted the medical industry. I person can now get open heart surgery done with out the need to fly to say Houston or Dallas. My mother had to have open heart surgery and had to be in Houston to get it done. So this is important and can be appreciated...however...

The haves and the have nots. Those with degrees can get into the medical field (the haves) Those that don't have degrees....what industry do they have there in Tyler that would fit them, Tyler Pipe and Foundry's? Last I check those guys were not a new creation for new job growth. So the have nots are pretty much sucking wind to find a job.

My extended family (so much for anonymity, shoot I have my pic up so why not) are apart of the farming community that from what I hear, they have a distribution channel up to Canada. Well kuddos for them. I'm proud for them. This isn't about them...Its about Tyler...

I a have not degree, (I did not keep in touch with family) I can not go home and Tyler is still weeding out those residents who appreciated Tyler, but had to leave in order to find employment.

Something else I know through experience. If a person is in Tyler lets say on an elevator (this is for the OP) or standing in a grocery check out line and that person strikes up a conversation with you. That person if you ask them will tell you, they are not from Tyler. Tylerites, don't speak.

I live in Longview now. Last night while at work a person struck up a conversation with me. I said, oh so you're from up north and he said, no, I'm Texas raised. So I thought it's great that Texans are still warm and friendly people and I hope that never changes.
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Old 10-05-2011, 12:39 PM
 
2,638 posts, read 3,569,013 times
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Default Don't think so.

Thought you could SEE by my responses, that I don't? Sorry of that possible impression. Just saying we don't often ACT like Christians, but often, try.

Last edited by Mark Senior; 10-05-2011 at 12:57 PM..
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Old 10-07-2011, 07:23 AM
 
Location: Longview, Texas
3 posts, read 3,374 times
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Great discussion. I also moved back to ET for my aging mother. I don't even have a pickup truck. I am in Longview.

For a church that is not so rigid, try Unitarian-Universalist. But not many members around here, for obvious reasons.
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Old 10-07-2011, 07:51 AM
 
Location: Cedar Park, Texas
1,601 posts, read 2,464,544 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by actonbell View Post
The best way I know and remember Tyler socially I will describe the same as the author of the book that was burned by city officials (so sorry I can not share the book) "the haves and the have nots". I knew of the story the author told, but I left in the late 80's and I never learned how it ended. I'm pleased to know that Sheriff Smith was not the bad guy, but he was actually set up to take a fall.
The book is "Smith County Justice" - I don't know why you make it out to be such a secret. I am a sixth-generation (by my count - might be longer) East Texan who was born and raised in the Tyler area and still have land and family there; I've heard about that story since I was a kid. My mother has a copy of the book. It isn't such a big secret that it can't be shared on city-data!
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Old 10-07-2011, 01:00 PM
 
Location: Right here; Right now
8,602 posts, read 4,405,348 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RooCeleste View Post
The book is "Smith County Justice" - I don't know why you make it out to be such a secret. I am a sixth-generation (by my count - might be longer) East Texan who was born and raised in the Tyler area and still have land and family there; I've heard about that story since I was a kid. My mother has a copy of the book. It isn't such a big secret that it can't be shared on city-data!
Not so much a secret as it can't be reprinted.

Quote:
ABOUT THIS EDITION

It is only when the people know the true behavior of a government that they can meaningfully choose to support or oppose that behavior. And so, there can be no true democracy without open government and a free press. Historically, a free press has only existed where publication and revelation, even anonymously, are protected and not controlled by those within government. But even in governments that supposedly offer such protections, those protections are often withdrawn under political pressure.

The non-fiction book Smith County Justice was written as an exposť of governmental corruption in the East Texas town of Tyler, the county seat of Smith County. Its publication sent shock waves through the political
machine of the city of Tyler which then devised a plan for damage control. Shortly after its publication great pressure was brought upon the publisher to remove the book from circulation. All unsold copies in bookstores were ordered returned to the publisher and burned. Just exactly what threats were made against the publisher has been a subject of much speculation but there have been numerous examples of those who crossed the power elite in Tyler going to prison on trumped-up charges, being shot by the police, or in some cases simply disappearing (a few examples are given in the book). Considering the fact that Smith County courts can issue arrest warrants and request extraditions, it becomes apparent that even being out of state could not protect a publisher or author from trumped up charges in a vindictive legal system bent on revenge.
So where is the book today?
I guess we've answered that question, huh.

It isn't the book that I wish to have secret, but who I am in conjunction with the era this book was written---Okay, I was a frequent visitor to a night club called, "Another Place". The owner of that night club is mentioned in the book. I could write a book and title it, 'the days of Boa'...

It was all a bunch of bunk and most everybody knew it. Now...

As for me I was 18 and I know there are sinners who can sin more than me, but, let's just say, there are somethings left best forgotten. At the age of 50 now I know there are people, they have memories that are long. It is easier to be forgiven by God, than it is to be forgiven by people.

My first post in this thread is the best description of the Tyler I grew up in and I want to say that Tyler will always be Baptist central, but I know that is not true.

So to address the op's issue and I know that I am a chatter box, (I have public profile, know me? if your mother knows me drop me a PM) I also know that I got the best response of friendly from family or from those who come from another state over.

I just have always had the feeling that Tyler was trying to be something more than it was. When if they would stop doing that, then people could relax and enjoy life more. Tyler is not exclusive in that area.
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Old 10-14-2011, 11:32 AM
 
Location: Dallas, TX and Tyler, TX
118 posts, read 175,878 times
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Wow... It have been quite a couple of weeks since I have checked in here... Love the conversation that is happening!

Ahhhh.... Smith County Justice. I read the book actually about 20 years ago. I had a friend who had a tattered copy of it and read it when the movie Rush came out. I even heard some of the urban legends of bodies being buried under the former Nations Bank building (whatever the black building is called downtown now)..... Every city has its dirty little secrets... no matter the size. What fun would it be if they didn't? Know what I mean?

Now... my mind is going in a different direction then just my "single" life because I think I now know why my single life will take a little hit..... and it is all about the bigger picture... The way Tyler markets itself!

What is the deal here??? I have done quite a bit of research lately... I have been heading out on my own in Tyler some lately too.

However, why is the city's marketing geared towards retirees, for the most part? I have absolutely nothing against retirees... They bring quite a bit of money with them and disposable income. But it seems to me that Tyler has forgotten about the other demographic that has disposable income (and tend to spend it in greater amounts)... The young professionals and especially young single or dual income/no kids (lovingly known as DINKS) professionals.

I have been digging into the job market... I am looking and do not have a job yet... But not stupid, trust me! I am keeping a contract gig with my current employer (who thankfully wants to keep me enough to offer me a 10% increase but my mind is made up) to see them through the hiring phase for my position. I will work remotely and return to Dallas on the weekends to do things in my office to allow me the weekdays to hunt down my opportunities. However, that is just temporary.

Ummmmm... THE JOBS ARE NOT THERE (unless I want medical, banking or insurance)! Yet, Tyler has a lower unemployment rate than Dallas and the state average. So, I started digging deeper and deeper. I looked at stats wherever I could find them... Tyler Economic Committee... newspaper... workforce commission... I concentrated mostly on information before 2006 (before housing bubble, bail out and recession) I started digging into Tyler's elected officials (their press releases, speeches, interviews)... I know, I am a little thorough. And what is the deal?

It is like they shun medium white collar business development or corporate business development. Most development seems to be geared towards blue collar or hospitality (employing restaurant staff) and homes for retirees. Why? Because retirees are not looking for employment with possibilities of advancement and mobility opportunities. It seems to me that they are doing most everything to discourage single professionals.... although with the decline of the public school system... they seem to be wanting to chase away married professionals out to the Tyler Burbs or away from Tyler, too.

They seem to market economic development to young and old only and forget about a huge portion of the demographic in the middle.

Do they not realize the untapped market? Or do they not want it?

I am amazed at the differences I have seen so far between Dallas and Tyler job markets. It is amazing to me that the two worlds can be so closely linked... Yet, Tyler still seems to be stuck behind the times. For example... Secretary is still the common terminology in Tyler. The job postings seek HS diploma or equivalent and pay, if lucky, $11/hour. In Dallas, you have Administrative assistants. They require college degrees. You act more as a partner and a gatekeeper... You are a salesman... etc etc etc. They are salaried employees and most I know are recruited in at $45K+ a year (minimum).

That is just an example of what I have noticed.

Tyler also is still very much a good old boy or family network. The businesses have not really changed or expanded since I was there over 10 years ago. And the reason I left was for career opportunities, which I found. So, I am starting to change my tune some from my original post... the job market is FREAKING ME OUT!!!! (I tend to be somewhat dramatic... but it is)

To open up a little about me... I work for a city's police department (not Dallas) and run a program for them as a civilian crime prevention liaison between them and the residents , our crime rate in minimal and practically nonexistent violent crimes, yet we start our officers out $50K (base and up from there) and what do you think Tyler starts their officers out at? A little more than half (and in some cases just $24K). And I hate to tell ya.... Tyler is not that much cheaper. I am only looking at 20% reduction in in rent (until I purchase a home)... 10% in car insurance and a few cents per gal on gas... Those are the only things I can see in regards to decreases. Everything else is pretty much the same. I will pay the same for a dress at Dillards in both Tyler and Dallas. I will pay the same for my dinner at Chuys in Tyler and Dallas.

Speaking of Dillards... Walk into a Dillard's or Macy's in Tyler and one in Dallas and the demographic difference is evident there... As a woman, I see this... They are two completely different stores. They market to the very young or the old... Just sayin'.

How can they not see the missed opportunities? I spend more money than my mother does on products and services. Ummmmm.... I think I am not that abnormal, either.

Ok, end of rant!

Hope you all are having a great day!

Last edited by MeAndMillie2; 10-14-2011 at 12:14 PM..
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Old 10-14-2011, 06:36 PM
 
Location: Right here; Right now
8,602 posts, read 4,405,348 times
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Okay now I'm curious. All those that have read this book, Smith County Justice, did the point (moral) of the story go over your heads?

Just in case it did...

There was no drug mafia in Tyler. They made it up so as to further their careers in law enforcement. They couldn't make a big bad drug bust without the key element. I'm sorry I think that should be a plus. Now whether or not that could still be said true, I don't know. If an occasional or not so occasional user (or buyer) had needs, they have to send out for it. So the moral of the story, there was no mafia in Tyler.

Just like the booze. Any one wish to party, put the peddle to the metal and roar on down the hwy a bit, because it won't be found in the local area. Except for the night clubs that sold drinks and that is where it got funny. That night club I frequented the bouncers would bounce you out if so much as mention pot. And yes, I watched 'em do it. That too was interesting to watch. Better than TV.

MeAndMillie2,

What you are finding out about where the jobs are, 'banking, medical, insurance', I'm thinking that is the city council thing. I witnessed the development in those areas. I witnessed from just going back in for brief visits. I haven't been a resident of Tyler for over 26 years now.

Much has changed, but could be one has to be really old to see the change.

I lived in Dallas for 13 years, not because I liked Dallas, but because Dallas had jobs to offer. When that stopped being the case for me, I came back to East Texas. Why battle the hour long drive to work, when gas prices rose to the point that one can't find work within an hours drive, if one doesn't has to.

I think the most maddening part for me about Dallas, was being only 2 minutes away from the exit ramp for work and still being 30 minutes late for work. The only way I found around that was by leaving my home 1 1/2 hours early for work. No, I do not miss Dallas, at all.

PS: The citizens of Tyler keep the town clean. You know, that could be a problem for some folks moving in and for those making money off of crime.

Last edited by Ellis Bell; 10-14-2011 at 06:43 PM.. Reason: ps
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Old 10-15-2011, 04:05 PM
 
Location: Upper East Side of Texas
12,521 posts, read 23,062,828 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by actonbell View Post
Okay now I'm curious. All those that have read this book, Smith County Justice, did the point (moral) of the story go over your heads?

Just in case it did...

There was no drug mafia in Tyler. They made it up so as to further their careers in law enforcement. They couldn't make a big bad drug bust without the key element. I'm sorry I think that should be a plus. Now whether or not that could still be said true, I don't know. If an occasional or not so occasional user (or buyer) had needs, they have to send out for it. So the moral of the story, there was no mafia in Tyler.

Just like the booze. Any one wish to party, put the peddle to the metal and roar on down the hwy a bit, because it won't be found in the local area. Except for the night clubs that sold drinks and that is where it got funny. That night club I frequented the bouncers would bounce you out if so much as mention pot. And yes, I watched 'em do it. That too was interesting to watch. Better than TV.

MeAndMillie2,

What you are finding out about where the jobs are, 'banking, medical, insurance', I'm thinking that is the city council thing. I witnessed the development in those areas. I witnessed from just going back in for brief visits. I haven't been a resident of Tyler for over 26 years now.

Much has changed, but could be one has to be really old to see the change.

I lived in Dallas for 13 years, not because I liked Dallas, but because Dallas had jobs to offer. When that stopped being the case for me, I came back to East Texas. Why battle the hour long drive to work, when gas prices rose to the point that one can't find work within an hours drive, if one doesn't has to.

I think the most maddening part for me about Dallas, was being only 2 minutes away from the exit ramp for work and still being 30 minutes late for work. The only way I found around that was by leaving my home 1 1/2 hours early for work. No, I do not miss Dallas, at all.


PS: The citizens of Tyler keep the town clean. You know, that could be a problem for some folks moving in and for those making money off of crime.
This is why folks are discovering & moving to Tyler/East Texas where its peaceful. It takes no more than 10-15 minutes tops to get anywhere in the city to work on time even though we don't have freeways.

The rat race in cities like Dallas & Houston get old quick. I couldn't imagine sitting in traffic 1 1/2 hours for work every morning. I can save the gas & do that on a weekend if I wanted to go up there that bad.

Tyler offers just about anything the larger Texas metros have only in a smaller package.

Last edited by Metro Matt; 10-15-2011 at 04:14 PM..
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