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Old 06-13-2009, 09:03 AM
 
2,633 posts, read 3,560,751 times
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Thanks for sharing YOUR knowledge and experience, some of what you said I had heard just a small amount, but I had know idea to the extenct of what you speak. Thanks, again

Oh, I'm pretty much aware of Tyler's faults, but I let others, IF they are unhappy, to share them. Ovbiously, I think the "better" outweighs the "bad". No offense taken at all, just was made aware you had far more depth of knowledge.
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Old 06-13-2009, 11:51 AM
 
Location: North of DFW
595 posts, read 2,421,498 times
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If you want a "true" picture of how a school district does.....don't bother with TAKS...look at the college entrance exam scores. This is a true picture of the district. We've had friends that their kids graduated in the top 10 percent...all AP classes and couldn't place out of any college level courses. A school is only as good as the students who come out of it. Likewise we have friends who have children that weren't in a "good school" and their children scored very high on SAT/ACT test and went on to graduate from a 4 year University. The high school that we moved our 16 yr old out of when we were moved to this area two years ago is ranked 1253 or something and that HS has a huge drop out ratio and their rating for college entrance is dismal...they were ranked and Lindale wasn't. It makes no sense. When I saw some of the schools that were ranked ...I just had a good laugh.
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Old 06-13-2009, 06:58 PM
 
Location: The Village
1,622 posts, read 3,980,678 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by solytaire View Post
This is so true...even while I was in High School transferring was no cake walk..really if you didnt live in North/West/ or North/East Tyler, it was pretty hard to get into JT, and likewise you really had to live in South Tyler, or Southwest Tyler to go to REL...The only reason I went to REL is because a close close relative worked there, and basically pushed me in there...lol

But of course the higher the attendance rate for a school, the more money they get from the state, so you know how that goes...no suprise that they opened the doors..and of course with that many new students coming in, and when Katrina hit and the evacuees came, both JT and REL on many days turned into warzones...literally mob-like fights every week if not multiple times a week...that lasted about a year until REL was basically left to deal with the ruins.

Plus, REL for the longest could literally SMELL that 5A state championship but could just never get past those Dallas schools in the playoffs...that is until they got the influx of athleticism from JT...unfortunately that championship came at the cost of REL's academic standing...Not to say that JT transfers were the SOLE reason for either, but they sure had a lot to do with it...A LOT...and REL was going to get Owens his ring...and so he got one...lol
Lee's state championship team was the weakest in the history of 4A/5A football in Texas. They were in the toughest district in the state, but going 7-3 and getting 3rd in the district is not what champions are made of in this state. Lee just got lucky that the UIL has the Division I/Division II garbage for football, otherwise they wouldn't have been near Carroll, Katy, Galena Park North Shore, Irving MacArthur, Smithson Valley, Longview, or Lufkin at all in 2004.
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Old 06-13-2009, 07:03 PM
 
Location: The Village
1,622 posts, read 3,980,678 times
Reputation: 668
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark-Tyler is Special View Post
Ok longranger, "neither of those are true" which "neither"?
I get it that Frisco had now gone to h--- now, but what else did I miss too, Thanks
It's neither all white nor particularly affluent.
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Old 06-13-2009, 08:38 PM
 
3,424 posts, read 5,215,901 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theloneranger View Post
Lee's state championship team was the weakest in the history of 4A/5A football in Texas. They were in the toughest district in the state, but going 7-3 and getting 3rd in the district is not what champions are made of in this state. Lee just got lucky that the UIL has the Division I/Division II garbage for football, otherwise they wouldn't have been near Carroll, Katy, Galena Park North Shore, Irving MacArthur, Smithson Valley, Longview, or Lufkin at all in 2004.

Im sure thats true...Just trying to support my alma mater here. If they were third in the district then yes they did have the weakest team in its recent history...dont know about the weakest team in the history of 4A/5A..thats a bit of a stretch...

In most years prior (in recent history) they were consistently 1st or a close 2nd in district..but then again, as long as they won the games that matter, thats all that counts...If Im not mistaken REL underwent a redistricting of its football classification, and began playing teams from North Texas and Texarkana in district play...Something its not used to doing until the playoffs (North Texas that is) ...and Longview isnt even 5A anymore is it?...

But maybe it was luck, oh well they won one...Lee doesnt make the rules the UIL does so go figure...I wonder how many they sent to D1 programs from that squad? My guess would be two or three.
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Old 06-13-2009, 10:47 PM
 
2,633 posts, read 3,560,751 times
Reputation: 1515
the loneranger d--- man! what is your blank problem !! I v'e watched Lee football since Coach Owens came to Tyler, went to all but maybe one game in the 2004 state championship run, you or so out of it on your comments about weak, H--- yeah third in a District that for about 4 or five years in a row had 3 teams out of only four in the district IN THE TOP TEN, SOME ONE OTHER THAN YOU KNEW THEY WERE GOOD !! yes for two years UIL MADE Lee, Longview, JT and Lufkin play each other TWICE - yeah, three teams in the top ten at the same time (YEAR) having to play each other TWICE to just get out of the D--- District THE TEAMS WERE BATTERED AND BRUISED AT LEAST, IF NOT (BROKEN) even before district was over - Show me where any 5A district in UIL histroy has been required teams to play each other twice in FOOTBALL like they do in basketball. So yes, after district, two if not all three are knocked out of the 10, who the h--- wouldn't be knocked out, for d---- sure South Lake could not hold up to a schedule like that week after week, we even played Trinity home and home in the same non- district schedule when they were in the top ten. Oh, we played our playoff games largerly in the very netural site of Texas Stadium, yeah really netural, and still won some games, even 28-7 over Euless-Trinity. Only not until later did South Lake play any tough teams out of district, Lee could hardly get anyone other than real tough schools are some week sister (which Lee did not want to play, would not help them imporove to play a weak team). Lee was in the Quarter Finals, and Semi-finals the years just before the 5A Dvision One State Championship team, yes the teams under Matt Flynn were more talented on paper with many Divison I College players. I HAVE TOLD many PEOPLE that ANY TEAM that wins a state championship in football is not only good, but very lucky also. If they do not lose a star player to enjury thus killing their chances for a state championship. To may knowledge South Lake never lost a qaurterback or impact player of that nature in any of their state 5A runs. The year Matt Flynn was a senior he broke a bone in his foot which made him very one dimensional and average, he could not use his 4 something (fast) speed as he had done to help get the team as far along as they had gotten, again, bad luck as opposed to good luck. Also the previous year we lost our top running back with a collar bone break just before half-time. Of course I don't know what the outcome of the state run would have been but we were near the championship when this happened. But, you would not be aware of any of this because, have you noticed, Tyler, Longview, Lufkin are not in a major market like Allen, South Lake, or DFW teams, so few people new or cared about this. By the way, the UIL did the correct thing and required teams to be in the same district with JT,LEE, Longview PLAY THEM. AT THAT TIME NO ONE WANTED TO GET THEIR BRAINS KNOCKED OU. I expect Longview will be back in 5A. UIL for some reason would not let Longview count an Alternative Class/School as they had for many years, have now changed their minds again and will allow them to count the 200-300 students. Anyway, whats the problem? Did Lee whip one of your teams, sounds like it.

Too bad this discussion is under the Tyler ISD thread so other readers from Longview and Lufkin would maybe have similiar stories on the district during those years I mentioned.

Last edited by Mark Senior; 06-13-2009 at 11:47 PM..
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Old 06-13-2009, 10:57 PM
 
3,424 posts, read 5,215,901 times
Reputation: 1819
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark-Tyler is Special View Post
the loneranger d--- man what is your blank problem !! I v'e watched Lee football since Coach Owens came to Tyler, went to all but maybe one game in the 2004 state champion ship run, you or so out of it on your comments about weak, H--- yeah third in a District that for about 4 or five years in a row had 3 team out of only four in the district, yes for two years UIL MADE Lee, Longviews, JT and Lufkin play each other TWICE - yeah, three teams in the top ten at the same time having to plaeach other TWICE to just get out of the D--- District - Show me where any 5A district in UIL histroy has been required to play each other twice in FOOTBALL
I remember when I was at Lee...we played Nacogdoches twice...it was the reason we didnt win district that year.
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Old 06-13-2009, 11:39 PM
 
2,633 posts, read 3,560,751 times
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solytaire, how did that happen? the district was never a four team district, so why did they play each other twice in district then? Thanks. Wasn't that the days of Texarkana, Marshall, Longview, Nacogdoches, Lufkin, Lee?
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Old 06-14-2009, 12:38 AM
 
3,424 posts, read 5,215,901 times
Reputation: 1819
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark-Tyler is Special View Post
solytaire, how did that happen? the district was never a four team district, so why did they play each other twice in district then? Thanks. Wasn't that the days of Texarkana, Marshall, Longview, Nacogdoches, Lufkin, Lee?

No sir...I actually forget how it came about but I know Texarkana wasnt in our district at that time. It was just Marshall, Longview, Nacogdoches, Lufkin and JT..and us of course (Lee)... all I remember is that people were pretty pissed because we came out REALLY flat at Nacogdoches and lost the second time (who we had previously beat)...

Sorry I cant recall more accurately the circumstances surrounding that particular season...I would probably have to call a few team mates who would recall a lot better than I can..But it was a big hubbub about how REL screwed themselves out of a district title that year...
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Old 06-14-2009, 11:54 AM
 
Location: The Village
1,622 posts, read 3,980,678 times
Reputation: 668
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark-Tyler is Special View Post
the loneranger d--- man! what is your blank problem !! I v'e watched Lee football since Coach Owens came to Tyler, went to all but maybe one game in the 2004 state championship run, you or so out of it on your comments about weak, H--- yeah third in a District that for about 4 or five years in a row had 3 teams out of only four in the district IN THE TOP TEN, SOME ONE OTHER THAN YOU KNEW THEY WERE GOOD !! yes for two years UIL MADE Lee, Longview, JT and Lufkin play each other TWICE - yeah, three teams in the top ten at the same time (YEAR) having to play each other TWICE to just get out of the D--- District THE TEAMS WERE BATTERED AND BRUISED AT LEAST, IF NOT (BROKEN) even before district was over - Show me where any 5A district in UIL histroy has been required teams to play each other twice in FOOTBALL like they do in basketball. So yes, after district, two if not all three are knocked out of the 10, who the h--- wouldn't be knocked out, for d---- sure South Lake could not hold up to a schedule like that week after week, we even played Trinity home and home in the same non- district schedule when they were in the top ten. Oh, we played our playoff games largerly in the very netural site of Texas Stadium, yeah really netural, and still won some games, even 28-7 over Euless-Trinity. Only not until later did South Lake play any tough teams out of district, Lee could hardly get anyone other than real tough schools are some week sister (which Lee did not want to play, would not help them imporove to play a weak team). Lee was in the Quarter Finals, and Semi-finals the years just before the 5A Dvision One State Championship team, yes the teams under Matt Flynn were more talented on paper with many Divison I College players. I HAVE TOLD many PEOPLE that ANY TEAM that wins a state championship in football is not only good, but very lucky also. If they do not lose a star player to enjury thus killing their chances for a state championship. To may knowledge South Lake never lost a qaurterback or impact player of that nature in any of their state 5A runs. The year Matt Flynn was a senior he broke a bone in his foot which made him very one dimensional and average, he could not use his 4 something (fast) speed as he had done to help get the team as far along as they had gotten, again, bad luck as opposed to good luck. Also the previous year we lost our top running back with a collar bone break just before half-time. Of course I don't know what the outcome of the state run would have been but we were near the championship when this happened. But, you would not be aware of any of this because, have you noticed, Tyler, Longview, Lufkin are not in a major market like Allen, South Lake, or DFW teams, so few people new or cared about this. By the way, the UIL did the correct thing and required teams to be in the same district with JT,LEE, Longview PLAY THEM. AT THAT TIME NO ONE WANTED TO GET THEIR BRAINS KNOCKED OU. I expect Longview will be back in 5A. UIL for some reason would not let Longview count an Alternative Class/School as they had for many years, have now changed their minds again and will allow them to count the 200-300 students. Anyway, whats the problem? Did Lee whip one of your teams, sounds like it.

Too bad this discussion is under the Tyler ISD thread so other readers from Longview and Lufkin would maybe have similiar stories on the district during those years I mentioned.
Most of your data is wrong completely. I don't have any problem with Lee personally. I'm just a football fan and I've seen quite a few good Texas teams since I've been watching high school football. I saw that Lee team play twice in the playoffs, against Berkner and Trinity, and they were a good team, but they definitely were not a championship caliber team compared to the teams that ended up in the 5A Division II bracket, or compared to any of the teams that have won state since then.

For starters, Lee wasn't in the district you mentioned in 2004. Lufkin wasn't in that district (though REL played and lost to them in non-district), and they didn't play anyone twice (that was the alignment before that, when they originally assigned Rockwall and DeSoto to that district but the Dallas schools appealed and won). They were in a district with the Mesquite ISD schools and Rockwall in addition to REL. Also, Flynn wasn't a senior in 2004, he was a senior in 2002. That district was brutal, but particuarly for JT, whose football program isn't very strong any more.

I was wrong on one account--Lee didn't get third in district, they got second. LV won the district undefeated and that year LV knocked my school out of the 5A-II bracket. If you're seriously going to argue that the 5A-I bracket was as hard as the 5A-II bracket that year you have no credibility as a Texas high school football fan.

Lee didn't play their playoff games largely at the neutral site of Texas Stadium. They played only a single game at Texas Stadium--against Trinity. They played Berkner at Berkner's home stadium, but that isn't on Berkner's campus. They also played a home playoff game against North Garland, played McNeill in Waco, and played for state at the Alamodome.

NONE of the 5 teams that Lee beat in their playoff run were district champions. They were mostly good football teams, but none of them got first in their district--they all just got lucky as hell that they were the largest school in the district and ended up in 5A-I, just like Lee did. Berkner lost the district title to my high school, for example.

Meanwhile, in the 5A Division II bracket, there were a BOATLOAD of excellent teams. The playoff brackets that year were the most unbalanced in history--5A-II in 2004 was probably all around the toughest bracket in Texas history.

Lee has an excellent program and they should be proud of their state title, but that Lee team in 2004 was no great shakes for Texas high school football. It's equivalent to me bragging that my school has won 20 Catholic state titles--unless you're playing the very best teams in the state in your bracket, and you go undefeated, you shouldn't brag about it.
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