Tyler, Texas - Would you live here? (Houston, Dallas: insurance, unemployment rate)
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Longview isn't that far from the 100,000 mark. It isn't as though things suddenly change when you hit this magical number. Plus Tyler is just short of it for that matter.
80,000 to 100,000 is quite a stretch. Tyler got there relatively quick because its growing at a much faster rate of 14.8%. To get there at the current growth rate of 9.7% it would take Longview another 15-20 years to reach 100,000 people.
Keep looking at those old city limits signs which had Tyler at 96,000 years ago. Tyler's daytime population swells to over 150,000 people Monday through Friday during the work week.
Tyler - 100,000+
Longview - 80,000+
Most big city businesses won't even consider a place unless its over the 100,000 mark. For example, the new Rue 21 which is coming to South Tyler soon.
Here is a partial list of new businesses in Tyler
Rue 21
G By Guess
Rusty Taco (Dallas based)
Mooyah's Burgers (Dallas based)
Fuzzy's Taco
Chuy's Mexican Food (Austin based)
Collin Street Bakery (Corsicana)
Jimmy John's Subs & Sandwiches (2 locations)
What About Kabob? (Greek food)
Garden Ridge
Tyler is THE hub of East Texas & feels/looks more like a larger city compared to Longview which has no tall buildings or tollways at all. At least we have a few skylines here in Tyler & an outter loop/tollway like Dallas & Houston.
Last edited by Metro Matt; 07-09-2012 at 06:36 PM..
Keep looking at those old city limits signs which had Tyler at 96,000 years ago. Tyler's daytime population swells to over 150,000 people Monday through Friday during the work week.
Old city limit signs? From 2010? We've been through this before. Even continuing the rate it was growing from 2000 to 2010, it still has another year or two to hit 100,000. And that's assuming it has; people may have realized what a craphole it is and moved across the Sabine.
Also, Tyler's population only grows by 25,000 during the day. That brings it nowhere near 150,000.
Quote:
Tyler is THE hub of East Texas & feels/looks more like a larger city compared to Longview which has no tall buildings or tollways at all. At least we have a few skylines here in Tyler & an outter loop/tollway like Dallas & Houston.
Now you're bragging about tollways? Longview has the interstate that Tyler rejected because it wanted to remain a small town. (Yet it continues to grow in spite of itself.) Tyler is the hub of it's own metro and that's about it. Nobody outside of it has any reason to go there except maybe for college. (Of course SFASU is much better than any college in Tyler.)
You have me on the downtown buildings though. Longview's downtown is pretty pitiful for its size. It has been growing recently though.
Can you shop for groceries in Dallas while getting tipsy on Fireman's #4?
You can in Tyler.
This is not the extraordinary, revolutionary concept you're constantly trying to make it out to be.
Yes, you can do that in DFW. Not in any grocery store, but at Whole Foods, and I think Central Market, too. I don't know anyone that feels the need to get typsy while they buy groceries though. That just doesn't sound too appealing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Metro Matt
I stated Dallas is trying to pass a law banning Blacks from sagging their pants which is pretty backwards considering its about 20 years late.
One council member, not the City of Dallas, is trying to push for this -- a black council member, mind you. As far as I know, the law doesn't mention black people, nor are black people the only people who sag or make poor fashion choices. And I don't know why you keep saying "20 years too late." This law wouldn't be any better 20 years ago than it is now. It's just not the government's business to enforce dress standards. Either way, it's certainly not the embarrassing big black eye for Dallas you're trying to make it out to be. It's not a case for Dallas being backwards or Tyler being open minded.
I lived in Tyler for twenty years and now I live just outside of Longview, so I'm really familiar with both areas. I'm also unfortunately very familiar with the weird competitive thing that some people in both cities feel toward the other city.
GENERALLY SPEAKING - Tylerites don't like Longview. They consider it sort of low class, inferior, "trying to be like Tyler but it never can be," etc. I was very active with the Chamber when I lived in Tyler, and I can't tell you HOW many times a sales person would mention in a crowd of people "I'm going to Business After Hours in Longview next week" (or something like that) and the other people would roll their eyes and say, "Yuck!" or "I hate doing business in Longview," or something negative like that.
Generally speaking - Longview people think Tylerites are pretentious snobs. And honestly speaking, after hearing so many people from Tyler talk down about Longview for so many years, I can see Longview's point of view. But Longview has it's faults as well. When I moved to the Longview area, I was a realtor, and when I signed up with the Longview Board of Realtors, I realized that they don't do some of the things that Tyler realtors are used to. When I asked why, the director rolled his eyes and said, "Just because they do it like that in Tyler, doesn't mean we're going to do it like that here."
Personally, there are things I like and things I dislike about both cities. Here they are:
Tyler
I like:
The shopping
The variety of restaurants
The Azalea District
The many beautiful older neighborhoods with lots of old trees
The way that the infrastructure works together (city, chamber, economic development council, professional community)
I dislike:
The traffic
The frantic pace of the business community
The gossip mill
The sense of superficial competition for material things that so many people embrace
The congestion and crowding of businesses in high traffic areas
Tyler has THE WORST DRIVERS I HAVE EVER SEEN
Longview
I like:
The laid back pace
The spread out nature of the town, which facilitates a good traffic flow and less congestion
The shopping (yes, Longview has MANY national chains and continues to attract such businesses)
The informal, casual attitude of the business community
People don't run red lights in a long train - Tylerites, you know what I mean!
I dislike:
The lack of a wide range of good neighborhoods
The internal struggles between factions in the city
Gregg County Tax Assessor's office (bad karma in there - they love their sense of power and have a terrible attitude toward their community, unlike the Smith County Tax Assessor's office)
Trying so hard to differentiate themselves from Tyler that they shoot themselves in the foot
The Balloon Race - UGH, always at the hottest time of the year, and it's not even for a good cause! And TOO EXPENSIVE.
Longview is more blue collar - and I don't mean that in a bad way. I actually mean it in a good way, and I wish that Tylerites had more appreciation for the hard, honest work of blue collar workers. Longview does and that's a critical difference to me.
By the way, Longview continues to attract good businesses, as does Kilgore (Synergy Park is filling up fast). In fact, Bed Bath and Beyond is opening up in Longview soon - one less reason for me to fight Tyler traffic!
That being said, we just went to Fresh in Tyler last night. Love it.
Both towns have a lot going for them and make me proud to live in East Texas.
Old city limit signs? From 2010? We've been through this before. Even continuing the rate it was growing from 2000 to 2010, it still has another year or two to hit 100,000. And that's assuming it has; people may have realized what a craphole it is and moved across the Sabine.
96,900 x 15.8% = 15,310
15,310/10 = 1,531
1,531 x 2 = 3,062
96,900 + 3,062 = 99,962
Its close enough to 100,000 & census estimates put it over my own calculations.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kenshi
Also, Tyler's population only grows by 25,000 during the day. That brings it nowhere near 150,000.
Now you're bragging about tollways? Longview has the interstate that Tyler rejected because it wanted to remain a small town. (Yet it continues to grow in spite of itself.) Tyler is the hub of it's own metro and that's about it. Nobody outside of it has any reason to go there except maybe for college. (Of course SFASU is much better than any college in Tyler.)
Tyler just recently "officially" annexed the small parcel of land seperating the city limits on the northside to I-20 & land UT Tyler Health & Science Center sits on.
The Wendy's that has been there forever on Hwy. 69 North @ I-20 has had a Tyler address this whole time anyways as does the HUGE Target Distribution Center which sits off of CR 433 @ I-20.
Your logic Tyler didn't want to grow into a large city due to an interstate running through it may have been correct about 30 or 40 years ago, but not nowadays with the metro continuing to expand. Lindale is a suburb of Tyler anyways.
Wendy's
13815 US Highway 69 North
Tyler, TX 75706
(903) 881-2255
Target Distribution Center
13786 County Road 433, Tyler, TX
(903) 881-1000
SFA is not in East Texas, it is in Deep East Texas, its own sub region of the state entirely.
Now...there is your lesson for the day.
Last edited by Metro Matt; 07-10-2012 at 08:21 AM..
Its close enough to 100,000 & census estimates put it over my own calculations.
You calculated it incorrectly, not that it makes a huge difference. Your calculations assume linear growth, while cities exhibit exponential growth. Using your numbers, it should be 99,785 people. Why do census estimates think the city is growing even faster than in the last decade?
Quote:
Tyler just recently "officially" annexed the small parcel of land seperating the city limits on the northside to I-20 & land UT Tyler Health & Science Center sits on.
The Wendy's that has been there forever on Hwy. 69 North @ I-20 has had a Tyler address this whole time anyways as does the HUGE Target Distribution Center which sits off of CR 433 @ I-20.
Having a Tyler address doesn't mean it's actually in Tyler. From the maps, it looks like Tyler annexed nothing but the roads themselves. So what's on these roads? Last time I was there, it was still pretty much the sticks. Hop off onto Estes Pkwy or Eastman Rd and you have several gas stations and restaurants, a Walmart and nearby shopping plaza, a gay club, and other things plus Downtown isn't that far away. It may not be the densest part of Longview but it's definitely not the sticks.
Quote:
SFA is not in East Texas, it is in Deep East Texas, its own sub region of the state entirely.
And yet it's not much further from Tyler than Longview... My brother went to college in Tyler, I went to Nacogdoches, and they were both about the same distance from our hometown which is actually in the Longview area. SFA is a viable choice for people in the area without having to move far away from home.
You calculated it incorrectly, not that it makes a huge difference. Your calculations assume linear growth, while cities exhibit exponential growth. Using your numbers, it should be 99,785 people. Why do census estimates think the city is growing even faster than in the last decade?
Having a Tyler address doesn't mean it's actually in Tyler. From the maps, it looks like Tyler annexed nothing but the roads themselves. So what's on these roads? Last time I was there, it was still pretty much the sticks. Hop off onto Estes Pkwy or Eastman Rd and you have several gas stations and restaurants, a Walmart and nearby shopping plaza, a gay club, and other things plus Downtown isn't that far away. It may not be the densest part of Longview but it's definitely not the sticks.
And yet it's not much further from Tyler than Longview... My brother went to college in Tyler, I went to Nacogdoches, and they were both about the same distance from our hometown which is actually in the Longview area. SFA is a viable choice for people in the area without having to move far away from home.
Tyler to Longview is less than a 40 minute drive each way which means daily commuting between the two cities for work is possible.
Tyler to Nacogdoches is 1.5 hours or like driving to Downtown Dallas. A very do able every weekend road trip for the college student who wants to come home on the weekends.
One of these days Longview will be the eastern anchor of the Tyler/Longview Metropolitan area just like D/FW. All of the dead space between the two cities will be built up to the point where you don't know when you're in one city & out of the other.
Today, if the two metros were combined it would be over half a million people easily.
Longview barely has any of its own media outlets so they bum off of Tyler & Shreveport.
Only the southern tip of the city limits of Longview touches interstate just as the northern tip of Tyler touches it.
Tyler's new outter loop/tollway being constructed will intersect I-20 on the East & West sides of the metro providing an ease of traffic congestion on the inner loop around Tyler.
Tyler is 6 square miles smaller than Longview; 20,000 people larger & 300 pp sq. mile denser.
Even the name Long-view itself is sorta misrepresentive, as Tyler's elevation sits about 200' higher.
As someone on here previously pointed out, Tyler is more of a white collar town while Longview is more of a blue collar town. Not necessarily a bad thing, but Tyler just looks like the better kept city overall. Zoning in Longview is horrible & boy does it show. Kinda like the whole Dallas vs. Houston aesthetics thing only on a much smaller scale.
In the conclusion of it all, Longview is what Tyler once was. Its like a peep hole into the past before Tyler became so developed.
Last edited by Metro Matt; 07-10-2012 at 02:53 PM..
Tyler to Longview is less than a 40 minute drive each way which means daily commuting between the two cities for work is possible.
Tyler to Nacogdoches is 1.5 hours or like driving to Downtown Dallas. A very do able every weekend road trip for the college student who wants to come home on the weekends.
One of these days Longview will be the eastern anchor of the Tyler/Longview Metropolitan area just like D/FW. All of the dead space between the two cities will be built up to the point where you don't know when you're in one city & out of the other.
Today, if the two metros were combined it would be over half a million people easily.
Longview barely has any of its own media outlets so they bum off of Tyler & Shreveport.
Only the southern tip of the city limits of Longview touches interstate just as the northern tip of Tyler touches it.
Tyler's new outter loop/tollway being constructed will intersect I-20 on the East & West sides of the metro providing an ease of traffic congestion on the inner loop around Tyler.
Tyler is 6 square miles smaller than Longview; 20,000 people larger & 300 pp sq. mile denser.
Even the name Long-view itself is sorta misrepresentive, as Tyler's elevation sits about 200' higher.
As someone on here previously pointed out, Tyler is more of a white collar town while Longview is more of a blue collar town. Not necessarily a bad thing, but Tyler just looks like the better kept city overall. Zoning in Longview is horrible & boy does it show. Kinda like the whole Dallas vs. Houston aesthetics thing only on a much smaller scale.
In the conclusion of it all, Longview is what Tyler once was. Its like a peep hole into the past before Tyler became so developed.
So some might argue that Tyler is more like Dallas and Longview is more like Houston, yet you relentlessly bash Dallas and praise Houston. Talk about flipping the script.
Tyler to Longview is less than a 40 minute drive each way which means daily commuting between the two cities for work is possible.
Tyler to Nacogdoches is 1.5 hours or like driving to Downtown Dallas. A very do able every weekend road trip for the college student who wants to come home on the weekends.
One of these days Longview will be the eastern anchor of the Tyler/Longview Metropolitan area just like D/FW. All of the dead space between the two cities will be built up to the point where you don't know when you're in one city & out of the other.
Today, if the two metros were combined it would be over half a million people easily.
Longview barely has any of its own media outlets so they bum off of Tyler & Shreveport.
Only the southern tip of the city limits of Longview touches interstate just as the northern tip of Tyler touches it.
Tyler's new outter loop/tollway being constructed will intersect I-20 on the East & West sides of the metro providing an ease of traffic congestion on the inner loop around Tyler.
Tyler is 6 square miles smaller than Longview; 20,000 people larger & 300 pp sq. mile denser.
Even the name Long-view itself is sorta misrepresentive, as Tyler's elevation sits about 200' higher.
As someone on here previously pointed out, Tyler is more of a white collar town while Longview is more of a blue collar town. Not necessarily a bad thing, but Tyler just looks like the better kept city overall. Zoning in Longview is horrible & boy does it show. Kinda like the whole Dallas vs. Houston aesthetics thing only on a much smaller scale.
In the conclusion of it all, Longview is what Tyler once was. Its like a peep hole into the past before Tyler became so developed.
And you say that like it's a bad thing.
I lived in Tyler for twenty years before moving to the Longview area. Now, six years later, when I go back to Tyler (which is nearly every week, since I have so many friends there), I am - every week - SHOCKED by the crowded, jumbled up, congested persona of Tyler compared to Longview. The signage alone is ridiculous, in spite of the efforts by many groups to somehow control this issue. I mean, it's like I cross the loop and suddenly everything is in warp speed -crowded, hectic, noisy, filled with exhaust - and some of the most obtuse drivers I've ever seen anywhere.
I'm the one who pointed out that Tyler is more white collar than Longview. I didn't state this as a positive or a negative. It just IS. That being said, I will admit that prior to moving to the Longview area, I would have considered this a negative.
However, now that I've lived among the blue collar people here, I have changed my mind. "Blue Collar" definitely DOES NOT mean that they have less expendable income, or that they have a lower standard of living. Different priorities? Sometimes, yes. Lower standards? No.
When was the last time you actually drove through the downtown area of Longview? How 'bout driving around the loop in Longview? May I kindly suggest that you take off your Rose City tinted glasses and treat yourself to a day in Longview? I think you will be pleasantly surprised.
By the way, Longview has it's own newspaper, it's own radio stations, and KLTV has a large office there and considers the Longview market to be an integral part of their operations (I used to work for KLTV so I have some insight into their attitude toward Longview). So I wouldn't say they don't have their own media outlets, though they don't have as many as Tyler.
Tyler is 6 square miles smaller than Longview; 20,000 people larger & 300 pp sq. mile denser.
Now - I hope you aren't holding this up as some sort of example of positive progress.
Earlier I wrote about negative feelings between people who live in Longview, and people who live in Tyler. Some people in both cities seem to be constantly comparing the two, as if there were some sort of competition. I've noticed this to be most pronounced within professional circles - and to be honest, I've seen most of the negativity coming from the Tyler side. My question is "Why?" Longview IS smaller - and sometimes smaller is an advantage. Of course a smaller city is going to have fewer amenities, but with our very close proximity to Tyler, Dallas, and Shreveport, why should Longview strive for more congestion, more traffic, etc. when we don't have to deal with them?
I watched Tyler morph from a nice town of 65,000 or so, to a crowded, hectic small city (with a very poorly planned traffic flow) of 100,000 in twenty years. Though I love Tyler and East Texas, I can't honestly say that I think that change was for the better.
I lived in Tyler for twenty years before moving to the Longview area. Now, six years later, when I go back to Tyler (which is nearly every week, since I have so many friends there), I am - every week - SHOCKED by the crowded, jumbled up, congested persona of Tyler compared to Longview. The signage alone is ridiculous, in spite of the efforts by many groups to somehow control this issue. I mean, it's like I cross the loop and suddenly everything is in warp speed -crowded, hectic, noisy, filled with exhaust - and some of the most obtuse drivers I've ever seen anywhere.
I'm the one who pointed out that Tyler is more white collar than Longview. I didn't state this as a positive or a negative. It just IS. That being said, I will admit that prior to moving to the Longview area, I would have considered this a negative.
However, now that I've lived among the blue collar people here, I have changed my mind. "Blue Collar" definitely DOES NOT mean that they have less expendable income, or that they have a lower standard of living. Different priorities? Sometimes, yes. Lower standards? No.
When was the last time you actually drove through the downtown area of Longview? How 'bout driving around the loop in Longview? May I kindly suggest that you take off your Rose City tinted glasses and treat yourself to a day in Longview? I think you will be pleasantly surprised.
By the way, Longview has it's own newspaper, it's own radio stations, and KLTV has a large office there and considers the Longview market to be an integral part of their operations (I used to work for KLTV so I have some insight into their attitude toward Longview). So I wouldn't say they don't have their own media outlets, though they don't have as many as Tyler.
Now - I hope you aren't holding this up as some sort of example of positive progress.
Earlier I wrote about negative feelings between people who live in Longview, and people who live in Tyler. Some people in both cities seem to be constantly comparing the two, as if there were some sort of competition. I've noticed this to be most pronounced within professional circles - and to be honest, I've seen most of the negativity coming from the Tyler side. My question is "Why?" Longview IS smaller - and sometimes smaller is an advantage. Of course a smaller city is going to have fewer amenities, but with our very close proximity to Tyler, Dallas, and Shreveport, why should Longview strive for more congestion, more traffic, etc. when we don't have to deal with them?
I watched Tyler morph from a nice town of 65,000 or so, to a crowded, hectic small city (with a very poorly planned traffic flow) of 100,000 in twenty years. Though I love Tyler and East Texas, I can't honestly say that I think that change was for the better.
But that's just my personal opinion.
Yes, it could've been planned better, but with improvements like the Grande Blvd. extension, South Tyler Trails, bicycle lanes, Earl Campbell Parkway, & the new outter loop traffic has eased quite a bit from what it once was.
Tyler never built a freeway near or through its downtown which is an awesome thing for future urban development within the loop. You see, that's the problem Dallas & Houston are facing now, they have freeways circling & slicing through their urban core. It literally devoids ALL urban street life. Why do you think Dallas is spending millions upon millions of dollars to build a park deck over the Woodall Rogers Freeway now to fix decades of screw up?
Last edited by Metro Matt; 07-11-2012 at 01:57 PM..
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